Wiccan/Paganism

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actually, the upside-down cross is the sign of Peter and his thrown.
 
Is it a pentacle or a pentagram?

My opinion on Wicca: It’s what happens when teenagers/young adults learn their spiritual lessons from Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Actually, Charmed would be more accurate. Sexy 20-somethings prancing about casting spells and whatnot, looking all cool and stuff… From my experience it appears to be an act of rebellion and a blattant attempt to get attention. Not to make light of the serious implications, but I question if many of them even know what Wicca is beyond a cool group of people they meet on an internet role playing game. Especially my brother-in-law who showed up one day with a large pentacle tatoo on his shoulder and announced he was Wiccan. I’m sure it looks cool to all of his MySpace friends. I see them as lost souls looking for a place they fit in and I pray for them.

I’m interested to hear more details about the discrimination too.
 
GeorgiaPeach said:
Is it a pentacle or a pentagram?
A pentacle is a pentagram inside a circle. Most necklaces that I’ve seen are pentacles because it’s just easier that way.
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. Actually, Charmed would be more accurate. Sexy 20-somethings prancing about casting spells and whatnot, looking all cool and stuff… From my experience it appears to be an act of rebellion and a blattant attempt to get attention. Not to make light of the serious implications, but I question if many of them even know what Wicca is beyond a cool group of people they meet on an internet role playing game. Especially my brother-in-law who showed up one day with a large pentacle tatoo on his shoulder and announced he was Wiccan. I’m sure it looks cool to all of his MySpace friends. I see them as lost souls looking for a place they fit in and I pray for them.
There are two types of people who claim to be Wiccan, “fluffy bunny” and actual, traditionalist, lineaged Wiccans.

‘Fluffy bunny’ an occultist/pagan term for naive teenagers or pre-teens who delve into cookie-cutter practices to be cool. They tend to think that in the shelves of Borders or Barnes and Nobles lies the secret knowledge of the ages. There is a 99% chance that what you think of as Wicca is “fluffy bunny”. Actual Wicca has nothing to do with earth worship, vegetarianism, feminism , ‘gay rights’ (the founder of Wicca, Gerald Gardner was not fond of homosexuality as a matter of fact) , worshipping any pagan god you want (and oftentimes int he process, raping an ancient culture) or “Magic for Teens”.
Actual Wicca is a mystery (only members are given significant knowledge) fertility (mandatory sexual rites mean that no on under 18 is supposed to be Wiccan) cult devoted exclusively to the “Lord and Lady of the Isles” (two deities who’s actual name is only known to members. Each member of Wicca is initiated by another member and each Wiccan can trace a ‘descent of initiation’ back to Gerald Gardner himself.
I’m interested to hear more details about the discrimination too.
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I don’t want to make any claims on the OP’s experience since she may be an actual Wiccan who has experienced actual discrimination but…
The Fluffy Bunnies tend to have a huge persecution complex. They will often espouse a made up event called the “Burning Times” (sometimes “Burning Tymes”) and will say that millions of Wiccans were burned during the Middle Ages. You see, many “fluffy bunnies” believe Wicca to be a primordial religion whereas actual ones tend to acknowledge that it came into being in the 1950’s.

I’m coming out of some paganism/occult so I know some stuff. I myself was not Wiccan but I knew enough “legitimate” ones.
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For a short amount of time, I was attracted to Wicca. A lot of it had to do with my obsession with magic/witchcraft since I was young. I would definitely not say that I am against Wiccans as people, only their religion. Why is this? Because I believe in Jesus’ resurrection and anything that does not acknowledge it, I cannot accept. It is like someone was saying about GK Chesterton: paganism is good, but Christianity is way better. And as for someone trying to convert you. I myself find it hard to talk about religion and the only reason that I would ever talk to a person about it would be because I love and care about them. You shouldn’t look at it as someone disrespecting you, but as someone who cares. At least that is how I would feel if I had someone try to convert me.
Many of my friends like the idea of nature god/goddesses. I have one friend in particular who is a witch and practices Wicca. I do not dislike her, nor do I put her down for it, in fact she is very nice and easy to talk to. And one thing is that Christians tend to think that Wicca is Satanic. It is not. To my understanding, it has a god and goddess, but does not worship satan at all. I am not sure if they even acknowledge him. . . it would not make sense for them to.
 
GL-
Are we discussing Wiccan specifically, or Paganism in general.

And to the OP-
There is a vast difference between Wiccan and Pagan, just as there is a vast difference between a Wiccan and a Witch.

As for your cross comment. Just cause she’s wearing a cross doesn’t mean that she is a Catholic. Just as someone with a pent tattoo isn’t automatically a Wiccan. You are making vast assumptions.

Additionally, what are you doing to draw attention to yourself in these “many Catholic churches”? Because most people are too absorbed in their worship to notice anyone else.

Lastly, you claim to get weird looks. As a Pagan, you are more than aware of the ability to sense certain “auras” (I hate that word but will use it here). Pagans don’t hold the monopoly on that ability. Catholics have it to. And it is entirely possible that people, when they look at you, may be reacting to what they feel from you. Trust me, I can physically feel the difference between people, especially those meddling in the occult.
 
GreenLantern said:
There are two types of people who claim to be Wiccan, “fluffy bunny” and actual, traditionalist, lineaged Wiccans.

‘Fluffy bunny’ an occultist/pagan term for naive teenagers or pre-teens who delve into cookie-cutter practices to be cool. They tend to think that in the shelves of Borders or Barnes and Nobles lies the secret knowledge of the ages. There is a 99% chance that what you think of as Wicca is “fluffy bunny”. Actual Wicca has nothing to do with earth worship, vegetarianism, feminism , ‘gay rights’ (the founder of Wicca, Gerald Gardner was not fond of homosexuality as a matter of fact) , worshipping any pagan god you want (and oftentimes int he process, raping an ancient culture) or “Magic for Teens”.
Actual Wicca is a mystery (only members are given significant knowledge) fertility (mandatory sexual rites mean that no on under 18 is supposed to be Wiccan) cult devoted exclusively to the “Lord and Lady of the Isles” (two deities who’s actual name is only known to members. Each member of Wicca is initiated by another member and each Wiccan can trace a ‘descent of initiation’ back to Gerald Gardner himself.
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Thanks, that makes sense. I did have contact with a group of middle aged men and one women that were Wiccan. They were nothing like you see in pop-culture today. When they weren’t working their day jobs they would dress in renaissance attire, which was very out of place in our small town. I can imagine they got some strange looks. They were all nice enough people but to say they were odd is putting it mildly.

Just a thought, would Wiccan’s (any type) have reason to attempt to steal the Eucharist or is that confined to satanic cults?
 
PatienceAndLove said:
GL-
Are we discussing Wiccan specifically, or Paganism in general.
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What do you mean? The title does say Wiccan/Paganism.

I was talking about Wicca mostly though the term “fluffy bunny” does apply to Paganism a little bit. But not nearly as much as Wicca since Paganism is just a blanket term whereas Wicca is a specific religion.
GeorgiaPeach said:
Just a thought, would Wiccan’s (any type) have reason to attempt to steal the Eucharist or is that confined to satanic cults?
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I can’t see any reason as to why either ‘fluffy bunnies’ (who are pretty much benign and call themselves "white witches) or actual Wiccans would steal a Eucharist. I believe there was a writing from Gardner or a member of his inner circle that said something like “oath breakers shall be tormented in the Hell of the Christians” or something like that and beyond that reference Wicca is pretty much apathetic to Christianity.
 
GeorgiaPeach said:
Thanks, that makes sense. I did have contact with a group of middle aged men and one women that were Wiccan. They were nothing like you see in pop-culture today. When they weren’t working their day jobs they would dress in renaissance attire, which was very out of place in our small town. I can imagine they got some strange looks. They were all nice enough people but to say they were odd is putting it mildly.

Just a thought, would Wiccan’s (any type) have reason to attempt to steal the Eucharist or is that confined to satanic cults?
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I think it would depend on the people – and those who would do so, would if they were pagan, Wiccan, SDA, Muslim, Atheist, whatever. Note that from what I gather, most Eucharist-stealing is done by so-called Christians for nefarious purposes.

Yes, there’s the Gardnerian Wicca – there’s also Alexandrian and the Wiccan Church of Canada (which calls its path “Odyssean” – i.e. eclectic choose-your-own odyssey). There’s also a lot of overlap between witchcraft, Wicca, and paganism. Sure, a lot of them wear robes, or big pentagrams, or (shudder!) renaissance garb, but those are the obvious ones. Like not all Christians wear sackcloth and ashes – altho’ I do personally know of one who does. The person sitting next to you on the bus, standing next to you at a bank, etc, may very well be a Wiccan/pagan/whatsit. Or they could be Catholic. Or a Jew. Or an atheist. Or a Toronto Maple Leafs fan (tell me that ain’t a religion!)

I’d be more worried about some followers of Asatru (not pagans, but heathens, thank you very much) – some are virulently (and violently) anti-Christian, anti-Semite, and pro-Nazi white supremacist. And make no bones about it.

If I were worried about desecration of the Blessed Sacrament, I’d be more worried about an apostate Catholic, or someone who belongs to an organization that is singularly anti-Catholic, rather than a group that in instead singularly non-Catholic, who don’t believe in [sub]S[/sub]atan, let alone worship [sub]h[/sub]im.

As for the fluffy-bunnies…I’ve met many of those, as well as Unitarian Universalists, Jesus Freaks, Jedi Masters, and Trekkers. As a certain atheist wrote…“Mostly harmless.”

Now, Scientologists…:eek: They SCARE me!
 
And BTW…whenever I get hit with “Never again the burning times!”* I just reply with “Never again the lions! Never again the crucifixions!”

That usually shuts them up, or at least leaves them scratching their heads.👍

No one has cornered the market on violence.

I mean, wasn’t *anybody *killing anybody BCE? 🤷

*Not that this happens often. Most of the pagans/Wiccans I knew did not define themselves by how they related to Christianity; as well, they mostly realize that the “witches” who were burned/hung were themselves Christian women who either were eccentric, unconventional, or falsely accused.
 
If people try to convert youit is becuase thy are concearned for your soul. You say you wear a pentagram/pentacle I forget which but are you showing you faith outwardly in other ways. I know of a Wiccan woman on my street and the only reason i know she is wiccan is becuase she told me. I used to know a boy that dressed goth with eyeliner and the whole nine yards then get angry when people stared! Of course people will stare when you draw that kind of attention to yourself.
 
Ghoti said:
*Not that this happens often. Most of the pagans/Wiccans I knew did not define themselves by how they related to Christianity; as well, they mostly realize that the “witches” who were burned/hung were themselves Christian women who either were eccentric, unconventional, or falsely accused.
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We can add that most of the witch hunts were conducted by local civic authorities, many of which were Protestant, rather than the Catholic Church; and that the numbers of victims have been grossly inflated by certain feminist “scholars.” Instead of the number in the millions which is often casually bandied about, researchers who have bothered to actually look at the records (Ronald Hutton, for one) have discovered that the number of witch trials was really somewhere between 50,000 to 100,000 thousand between 1450 and 1750, with maybe 45,000 executions. Around 25% of these were men. That’s not the picture that fluffy bunnies want to see painted.
 
WearingAFedora said:
So, what are all of your opinions on Wiccan/Pagan beliefs? Just wondering, since I face discrimination based on my religion (Wicca) from many Catholic churches. Nasty stares, rude comments, outright lies and once, someone even went as far as to try and convert me on the public bus. Just wondering why so many people are against it, and why.
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Hi WAF -

I think it would be helpful if you spell out your particular beliefs for us. We can then analyze them and voice any criticisms, good or bad.

Just so you know, early on in christianity many believers were cruelly martyred for thier faith in Christ; Fed to beasts of all kinds, burned alive. I’ve even read where one martyr was tied down and boiling pitch was poured on her from the toes up until it completely covered her naked body.

All of these acts were done by pagans. Lets be thankful that those episodes ended nearly 1700 years ago. These may have something to do with the way you’re treated. I have also spoken of Catholicism with wiccans and have been laughed at. Don’t think that the nastyness goes in only one direction. We all feel the pinch.

Sub
 
Ghoti said:
II’d be more worried about some followers of Asatru (not pagans, but heathens, thank you very much) – some are virulently (and violently) anti-Christian, anti-Semite, and pro-Nazi white supremacist. And make no bones about it.

!
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“I’m a heathen, NOT a pagan”–yeah I’ve heard that from some Asatru.

To quote Mr. Spock (Nimoy cribbing from the Talmud)

“A difference that makes no difference is no difference”
 
America’s youth is being drawn to Wicca’s “harmless” beliefs, like moths to a flame. That in itself is enough to make me worry.
 
Lion_of_Narnia said:
“I’m a heathen, NOT a pagan”–yeah I’ve heard that from some Asatru.

To quote Mr. Spock (Nimoy cribbing from the Talmud)

“A difference that makes no difference is no difference”
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It does make a difference inasmuch as being able to identify what you are looking at.

One could easily lump everyone together under the generic label “infidel”, but that hardly helps.

When it comes to non-Catholic religions, one needs to know what one is dealing with, so that one can properly deal with it. Talking about paganism to a heathen will have no more effect – or applicability – then talking about Pentecostalism to a Catholic.

If you are going to debate non-believers, at least know which flavour non-believer you’re dealing with, or you’ll only appear ignorant.
 
WearingAFedora said:
So, what are all of your opinions on Wiccan/Pagan beliefs? Just wondering, since I face discrimination based on my religion (Wicca) from many Catholic churches. Nasty stares, rude comments, outright lies and once, someone even went as far as to try and convert me on the public bus. Just wondering why so many people are against it, and why.
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What is my personal opinion of Wiccan/Pagan beliefs? I think it is a pretend game.

If people want to live in a fantasy world, that is their business. If I walked into a Wiccan meeting with my Rosary and and a Bible, there would be a few comments, and a few rudes stares from some of the Wiccans there. Chances are, just like in a Church, most of the people wouldn’t care one way or an other.

In most situations people are simply to concerned with their own troubles to even be aware that you are in open rebellion against their beliefs.

The most conservative, devout little lady in my Catholic Church would not even see you. She would be saying a Rosary for her husband whom she had tenderly cared for these last 10 years while watching him die of Alzheimer’s disease.
 
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