Wiccan/Paganism

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So, what are all of your opinions on Wiccan/Pagan beliefs? Just wondering, since I face discrimination based on my religion (Wicca) from many Catholic churches. Nasty stares, rude comments, outright lies and once, someone even went as far as to try and convert me on the public bus. Just wondering why so many people are against it, and why.
Welcome WearingAFedora:
I believe Wiccan/Pagan beliefs are false. That doesn’t mean we can’t talk. Jesus Christ sent out his Church to spread His Gospel. Jesus Christ is the Lord of all. Why don’t you tell us what you believe and we will tell you what we believe, and have a real dialog.
 
Welcome WearingAFedora:
I believe Wiccan/Pagan beliefs are false. That doesn’t mean we can’t talk. Jesus Christ sent out his Church to spread His Gospel. Jesus Christ is the Lord of all. Why don’t you tell us what you believe and we will tell you what we believe, and have a real dialog.
Cathryn, You have a much better approach than I do. Thanks for reminding me.
 
When it comes to non-Catholic religions, one needs to know what one is dealing with, so that one can properly deal with it. Talking about paganism to a heathen will have no more effect – or applicability – then talking about Pentecostalism to a Catholic.

If you are going to debate non-believers, at least know which flavour non-believer you’re dealing with, or you’ll only appear ignorant.
What is the difference???

Lets see, “pagan” is derived from the latin “pagani” or “countrydweller”–by extension, “the religion they practice in the sticks”–and apparently was used by Pre-Christian **urbanite **Romans as a derrogatory term for their rural non christian relatives.

“Heathen” is derived from “hearth worshipper”–those who hold to the worship of the household “hearth” gods and spirits.

In practice, for well over 1600 years, both terms have been used interchangably with little or no distinction.

Since both Wicca and Asatru are made up games, such fine-distinction labels are pretentious to say the least
 
What is the difference???

Lets see, “pagan” is derived from the latin “pagani” or “countrydweller”–by extension, “the religion they practice in the sticks”–and apparently was used by Pre-Christian **urbanite **Romans as a derrogatory term for their rural non christian relatives.

“Heathen” is derived from “hearth worshipper”–those who hold to the worship of the household “hearth” gods and spirits.

In practice, for well over 1600 years, both terms have been used interchangably with little or no distinction.

Since both Wicca and Asatru are made up games, such fine-distinction labels are pretentious to say the least
I love when people know the history and can point out the insanity that people present.

Wiccan and Pagan are not interchangeable. The mere fact the OP uses a “/” indicated that she thinks they are interchangeable, which they are not. This kind of points to her lack of knowledge regarding either.
 
“I agree with the previous poster here- are you wearing your religion on your sleave? With regard to your question, any type of polytheism is not looked upon with favour by the Holy Church. The rituals, values, and beliefs which these groups hold/partake in are not compatible with Catholic faith and are, at times, likened with Satanism. Ih ope that helps you, and I also hope that you seriously contemplate your faith. Praying for you, 031064.”

I disagree with you 100%

Wiccans share a lot of the same beliefs as christens do. let me list the similarities and differences.
  1. similarities: They both believe in harming none. Killing you neighbor, beating your wife, etc is bad.
    Differences: None
  2. Similarities: They both use rituals/symbols in their practices.
    Differences: Wiccans use many ancient symbols of astrology, christens use the cross.
  3. Similarities:They both worship a higher being.
    Differences: Wiccans don’t have a god, they worship deities that
    are from nature.Regardless of popular belief Satan has nothing at all to do with what they worship. Christians have 1 god.
  4. Similarities: They both have holidays. To be exact and if you do the historical research Christian holidays are very closely linked to Wiccan holidays. Easter according to Wiccans is based on the equinox, changing of the season, spring is the time of rebirth. ( Which is where we get the easter egg, from Pagans. The egg represent birth.)
    Christians it’s the time of Jesuses rebirth. Both holidays are based on rebirth. Christmas trees is another example of a Pagan tool of worship adopted by the Christian religion.
    Differences: Some, but not many, except that Wiccans have more holidays, they meaning is different,and they go about celebrating them differently.
  5. Similarities:They both think that family is very important.
    Differences: Wiccans believe that men and woman are equal as heads of the house hold. Christians have the tendency to take the written word to seriously when it says " Man was created in Gods image". Woman are below men.
  6. Similarities: They both teach war is bad, killing is bad, respect each other.
    Differences: Wiccans live the life of peace and balance with nature, their neighbors, and themselves. Through out history Christians have gone to war and slaughtered millions of innocent people in their “holy crusades” to save the world from non believers or to achieve holy land. Also you will never see a Wiccan cursing some one to hell for not believing in God. Some, not all Christians do so on a daily basis. Wiccans have to keep quiet about their religion and practice in hiding because the mass majority of the U.S is controlled by Christianity, and they will persecute them.
I can go on and on about the similarities and differences between the two religions.But the fact is until you do research or actually had a conversation with a Wiccan about their beliefs you will never know the whole truth about their religion.

I have a close friend that is Wiccan, and he is the most docile, laid back, and intelligent person I have ever met. Personally I will never go to be Wiccan, for I don’t believe in any religion but I respect his decision to practice what he wants. Recently he was kicked out of his apartment because his neighbor say him and his family celebrating one of their holidays in the open. She claimed they were doing satanic rituals in the back yard and called the cops.

It’s unfortunate that until people become well educated and tolerable to other religions people will continue to be persecuted.
 
Grendelx, there is so much misinformation in your post and it is nearly my bedtime and I can’t address it all. I just want to say this:
  1. Similarities:They both worship a higher being.
    Differences: Wiccans don’t have a god, they worship deities that
    are from nature.
First, a deity IS a god. Two words, same meaning. Second, Wiccans, real Wiccans, have a god and a goddess. Generally the belief is that all deities that ever existed are cultural manifestations of ‘The God’ or ‘The Goddess’. So, no, they don’t have deities that are explicitly “from nature”; they have a dualist system based on sex, incorporating two recently-invented deities which leech cultural elements from here and there. However, most Wiccans incorporate forms of pseudo-animism into their belief system - that’s perhaps a little closer to having “deities that are from nature” although it is tangential to their main theology.
 
I suppose I’ll be blunt…

Having already done the “invent your own religion” thing, I don’t take Wicca very seriously and I’m not even sure those that practice it do either.

It’s members are generally nice enough people with good intentions, they don’t place “curses” on people and the like. But I do think they are simply lost and alienated from the hyper-naturalist modern world which has sapped the mystery out of life.

The neo-paganisms are doomed to fail from the outset, that is my guess. They fail to take into account the genuine religious evolution of man in Christianity that superceded the pagan religions long ago. Neo pagans are trying to go back a time when religions were simpler, disconnected with morality and pragmatic (in these sense it tends to concern daily life, not an eschatological vision). But there’s a reason Christianity won over paganism in the ancient world, and that is because Christianity has a superior concept of God. Trying to “re-paganize” society is like trying to become an eight year old again.

Even the new pagans can’t help but think a little bit like Christians, because they are of an essentially Christian society. The pagan world is as alien to them as to us (which is why it excites them). Neo-pagans are merely…former Christians with a bad case of nostalgia.

**In my opinion, no successful religion has ever emerged from a bunch of people sitting around 19th century text books and the works of now discredited psuedo-scholars. **

Successful religions lift off the ground because their followers are passionately committed to the truth- and the universal truth, of their immediate spiritual experience and cause. That is, they are never aware that they are creating a religion, because the religion has always found them first.

I have not seen any religion so self-consciously created as Wicca and Neo-paganism. Everyone congregates, invents rituals, draws circles, write up mythologies on the spot. They want a “tradition” over night. It is…far too “synthetic” to ever be real.

In time the hats and broomsticks will go back in the costume boxes and we’ll move on.
 
I am a former Wicca, affiliated through the Unitarian Universalist church. I went back to the Roman Catholic church for many reasons.
  1. Wiccans didn’t take their faith seriously. I felt every ritual was half hearted. Or, they went really, really fast. I felt these people were still rebelling against their traditional religions. That, and, uh, Wicca made them feel good.
  2. I couldn’t find a solid relationship with a Wiccan. They were into creepy, freaky sex or polyamory. I know not all Wiccans adhere to this, but Wicca attracts the sexual deviants. I wanted marriage, monogamy, etc. If I wanted to sleep around, I would stayed in college.
  3. Weird morals! Majority of Wiccans are pro-choice. If nature is sacred, then so should the fetus be. If women are sacred, then Wiccans shouldn’t be strippers and dominatrixes. (A national goddess-based magazine had a whole feature on empowering through “professional” stripping!)
  4. Evil spirts. In the circle, we always have to ask for the guardians of the four directions to protect us. We invite them in and make them depart. We don’t know if we are calling in good spirits. Also, we have to cleanse ourselves after working “magick” b/c we need to get rid of the energies we picked up.
  5. Evil spirits pt 2. Even if you are at a Wiccan circle with good intentions, you don’t know if everyone else is. You could have people dealing with dark “magick”, straight up evil stuff. I shared a drum circle with a voodoo priestess- I felt very weak for two days after.
  6. Evil spirits pt 3: We call on good spirits to protect us in circles; we shouldn’t be involved in something that could put us in spiritual and emotional danger. Wiccan literature explicitly states the dangers of not properly calling on spirits, energy, etc.
ALSO, Wicca is one “branch” on the tree of Neeopaganism. The Higginbotham’s intro to Paganism book has a great illustration of this. It’s the umbrella of Neopaganism with all the different types of paganism coming from it: Wicca, voodoo, santeria, Asatru (norse), etc.

What Wiccans believe is that there is a wheel of the year. Depending on tradition, the year starts at Samhain (Oct) or Yule (Dec). The calendar follows the story of the lady (goddess) and her son/consort (god). Wiccans work different types of magick based on the holiday. Also, each month Wiccans work moon magick based on the type of moon. Each month has a specific moon, such as Blood Moon. Dorothy Morrison explains this in her introductory book.

Sure, Wicca seems harmless, but we don’t know what we are worshipping. Satan loves to distract us- the goddess and god are a distraction from GOD the FATHER!!! Satan loves to tell us falsehoods so we reject Jesus. Thinking Jesus is a “nice man” is not going to give you salvation. Believing in Him will. And, rejecting false gods- both old and new.

The bible talks about how there will be people who make up new religions in ages to come. That’s exactly what Aleister Crowley and Gerald Gardner did. And it’s perpetuated by StarHawk, Silver RavenWolf, the Sanders, etc.

You can believe what you want to believe. Free will is wonderful.
 
I certainly wore my paganism on my sleeve. I had pagan jewelry, pagan bumper stickers on my car. When I was returning to the RC church in July 06, I parked my little “wicca mobile” in the church parking lot. It was never a problem. Some people had a natural curiousity about it. Others ignored it and got to know me. My husband, who attended that church, makes jokes about it now. FYI- the stickers are gone! So is the jewelry!

Many Christians are generally afraid of anything occult- including Wicca- b/c occult conjures up all sorts of evil. They may also think wicca is nonsense and wonder why you practice. Many Christians are so devoted to Jesus that they are boggled as to why someone who reject Him for false gods.

Many Christians know that Wiccans don’t believe in Satan. BUT, they also believe that working “magick” or worshipping lord/lady is still evil- opening the doors to satanism- whether the wiccan wants it or not.
 
Wasn’t it the opinion of the early Church fathers that the Roman, Greek, Egyptian false-gods were actually demons?

Why wouldn’t it be the same with modern Wicca?
 
I am a pagan too and I have faced the same kind of discrimination. Here’s what I think it is…

Many religions are “clubs” where you have to do the same thing as everyone else, dress like everyone else, think like everyone else, or you don’t belong.

What is so remarkable about pagans is that there really is no “club”. Most pagans I know are solitary practicioners, mostly because of the prejudice.

It’s an ancient idea to hate pagans and most people don’t even get to know the person behind the pentagram necklace, or the triple goddess moon. They just see something different and it scares them.

More power to you to wear your religion proudly. Keep doing what you’re doing and be proud of it. Before there was Jesus, there were pagans. There’s nothing wrong with accepting all people and not forcing your religion on anyone. If anyone approaches you and starts preaching, simply suck it up, listen, and then say, “Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.” Remember the first rule of paganism - “And it harm none, do as you will.”

It would do some people some good to live by that rule.
 
I am a pagan too and I have faced the same kind of discrimination. Here’s what I think it is…

Many religions are “clubs” where you have to do the same thing as everyone else, dress like everyone else, think like everyone else, or you don’t belong.

What is so remarkable about pagans is that there really is no “club”.
Get involved with a large community of pagans, or go to a festival, and you will find this is an erroneous perception. Don’t care for polyamory? You’ll be sniffed at for being too ‘straight’ and will have to endure being constantly hit on by people hoping to prove that no one is truly monogamous. Prefer to dress normally instead of wearing flowing mu-mus or going skyclad? You’ll again be shunned for being too ‘straight.’ Don’t follow some variation of Wicca or goddess spirituality? You’ll be told you’re not a ‘real’ pagan. Support political candidates other than very far-left Democrats or Greens? You might as well burrow into a hole and never come out again.
 
Get involved with a large community of pagans, or go to a festival, and you will find this is an erroneous perception. Don’t care for polyamory? You’ll be sniffed at for being too ‘straight’ and will have to endure being constantly hit on by people hoping to prove that no one is truly monogamous. Prefer to dress normally instead of wearing flowing mu-mus or going skyclad? You’ll again be shunned for being too ‘straight.’ Don’t follow some variation of Wicca or goddess spirituality? You’ll be told you’re not a ‘real’ pagan. Support political candidates other than very far-left Democrats or Greens? You might as well burrow into a hole and never come out again.
If you feel that way, that’s just fine. That is not the experience I have had with paganism and getting involved with any pagan communities. I do not participate in polyamory, am completely monogamous with my husband, dress normally, am not wiccan, and I am not very involved in politics at all. And I still have been welcomed warmly into any pagan community I have ever met. Being pagan to me is about faith, not the way other people act in their own homes. I completely respect all religions, and have studied a lot of them, so that I can get every perspective. Yes, I have even studied Catholicism. I appreciate a lot of things about every religion. I was simply trying to point out that the experiences I have had with being a pagan have been completely positive and that is the reason I chose to become a pagan. I never felt left-out or different just because I was different than the pagan communities I have become involved with.
Again, it was just a simple personal observation and possibly the things you have become familiar with in your research of paganism are not at all about faith, but about making things seem “cool and edgy” to outsiders. That is not at all something I choose to be involved in, and something I do not agree with, but again, that is the choice of those people involved with it. I choose not to be a part of it, but that does not deny them the right to do it.
 
Again, it was just a simple personal observation and possibly the things you have become familiar with in your research of paganism are not at all about faith, but about making things seem “cool and edgy” to outsiders.
It’s not my “research.” It’s a decade of personal experience. I am a former pagan who was involved in the movement on both a local and national level.

There is no group of human beings that is 100% beautiful and positive all the time. Pagans are people too, and the same kinds of normal group dynamics occur among populations of pagans, too. I’d say that with pagans the problems tend to get even more out of control because pagans tend to reject rules and authority and to (on the surface) embrace all ideas as valid. Pagans joke among each other that trying to be a leader of a pagan group is like herding cats, so it’s not like my opinions are unusual here.
 
It’s not my “research.” It’s a decade of personal experience. I am a former pagan who was involved in the movement on both a local and national level.

There is no group of human beings that is 100% beautiful and positive all the time. Pagans are people too, and the same kinds of normal group dynamics occur among populations of pagans, too. I’d say that with pagans the problems tend to get even more out of control because pagans tend to reject rules and authority and to (on the surface) embrace all ideas as valid. Pagans joke among each other that trying to be a leader of a pagan group is like herding cats, so it’s not like my opinions are unusual here.
I am glad that you have had some experience to back your opinions. I totally agree that SOME pagans do tend to get out of control and that not all groups are beautiful and positive all the time. I just wanted to point to the fact that there are a few out there who are accepting and normal and positive people. Just as there are members of all religions who are accepting and positive. It may be unfair to group all the members of any religion into any stereotype. That is my error, in grouping all pagans in a “100% beautiful and positive all the time” category. I certainly did not intend to offend anyone, I just wanted to state my personal experience. My religion is very important to me, as everyone’s religion probably is. I choose to see my experience with faith as a positive one.
 
Welcome to CAF Mary! Stick around a while and don’t be afraid to ask questions.
 
I am a pagan too and I have faced the same kind of discrimination. Here’s what I think it is…

Many religions are “clubs” where you have to do the same thing as everyone else, dress like everyone else, think like everyone else, or you don’t belong.

What is so remarkable about pagans is that there really is no “club”. Most pagans I know are solitary practicioners, mostly because of the prejudice.

It’s an ancient idea to hate pagans and most people don’t even get to know the person behind the pentagram necklace, or the triple goddess moon. They just see something different and it scares them.

More power to you to wear your religion proudly. Keep doing what you’re doing and be proud of it. Before there was Jesus, there were pagans. There’s nothing wrong with accepting all people and not forcing your religion on anyone. If anyone approaches you and starts preaching, simply suck it up, listen, and then say, “Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.” Remember the first rule of paganism - “And it harm none, do as you will.”

It would do some people some good to live by that rule.
The last thing in the world you want in a religion is something you can “wear proudly.” If your religion does not humble you–as Wicca undoubtly does for some–then keep looking.

As for it being remarkable that pagans have no “club”, I’d say rather that it is more of a “we don’t have a club”-type club. There is widespread identification with persecutions of people that were persecuted simply because they were different, rather than because they held similar beliefs. For instance, there is no reason to believe that the “witches” in Salem actually practiced anything like paganism. Also, there are quite a few people who like to pretend that they learned their paganism as it was handed down by someone’s grandmother. There is little evidence that these claims are true, but it shows that even pagans like to think that the particular way they worship and view the cosmos is part of something greater and older than they are. There is no reason for a pagan to get on a high horse on those accounts, then.

As to ritual: many of us have been to weddings where the bride and groom made up the vows and the ceremony. Very few will tell you that this reliably leads to anything particularly inspiring. Novelty in ritual, rather than being scary, is more reliably likely to be self-indulgent, trite, and difficult for anyone other than the author to endure. So it may be that a religion with solitary practitioners gives one that “advantage”, too. Do not think that it is only Christians who can come across as arrogant, then.

Now, this is not to say that paganism is simply the religion of people who want to be odd and not be told what to do, but it is a very attractive religion if that is your bent. “And it harm none, do as you will” leaves the definition of “harm” conveniently wide open. Again, serious practitioners of Wicca recognize that as a serious spiritual peril, and take the charge seriously: “what evil you do, comes back to you three-fold”. A great many less serious practioners do not take the rule so seriously. As for Christians, a Christian would of course know that to leave you ignorant of the Gospel would be to your harm. By your own first rule, a Christian is duty-bound to witness to you. If that’s your rule, you kind of have to let the rest of the world play by it. You have to admit “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is a tougher standard to meet than “Do no harm, then do as you will.” In the latter, you may not do any harm, but there’s nothing saying you have to do another soul in the world any good, either. Halliburton and Walmart, two very “persecuted” businesses, may be convinced they do no harm, and therefore do as they will. Who may accuse them, then?

Again, a more serious practioner of Wicca finds far more to their own maxims than meets the eye. The Holy Spirit blows where He will, so opening yourself to the divine can do that to you. If your Wicca hasn’t opened you to the possiblity that Christians mean you well by their witnessing, a little more time in meditation may be in order. If paganism doesn’t at least make you big-hearted, after all, what is the use of it? It is like wetting yourself in the dark. You feel all nice and warm, but who else notices?

I hope you become a Christian, and a very good Christian. Why? Because there is one God, who is love, who made all creation from nothing and found it good, a God willing to become a human and die, and a God whose breath, image, and Self animates humanity, a God who has consecrated both living and dying by His Life and Death, and that is the truth. The cosmic wonder and power that nature has witnessed to you so far is only a fraction of that truth. If you search Christianity openly and honestly, and in all true honesty cannot accept it, though, I hope you will at very least become a very good and big-hearted Wiccan for having tried. I hope the sentence against us for witnessing that truth as badly as we often do is not too severe.

And if you won’t search it openly and honestly…why not? Leave no path to the truth rejected out of hand, dear one. That would not be a very Wiccan thing to do, would it?
 
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