Wife Has Given Up - Part 2

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Tuc,

I’m confused. Did your wife sit in on the therapy session? Or did your son and/or his therapist tell her this information?

Sadly, at this point, I’m not sure she’d be able to keep any information neutral. I really worry this was said with a money motive behind it.

I’m so sorry…your family does not need this before Christmas.
 
Tucdoc,

Your kids need to work out their relationship with each parent separately. You or your ex shouldn’t be relaying anything they tell you in confidence. I have no idea whether your ex is accurately relaying what your son said, whether she’s putting her own spin on something, putting words in his mouth for what she thinks is going on etc, but she should have advised your son to tell you that directly. If their relationship starts breaking down with one parent, they’ll blame the other down the road for any interference or ‘assistance’. In this case, your son may even be playing your ex and the therapist. Telling them what he thinks they want to hear.

If your son tells you something you think the ex needs to know, tell your son to tell her directly or you will out of concern for - safety, etc. Never start passing info he may think he’s told you in confidence.

Anyway, if it’s true- than he is testing you. If your therapist really is good he’ll have seen this stuff before and will be able to help your son. Let your son and the therapist know you are willing to go to joint sessions when that is advisable for your son’s progress. If this is your son’s therapist it’s all about helping your son. Not necessarily sorting out things between the parents, but helping your son deal with what’s going on between the parents. He can’t control you two but he can control how he deals with you.
 
I encourage you to ask your son directly about the issue at hand. It doesn’t sound like a comment a high school student would make to a therapist. But then it would be really awkward to have a therapist come right out and ask you why you are failing if you are a high school student …that doesn’t seem like a helpful question, and I wonder if it really was even asked. You will need to guard your relationship to your son. And have very clear communication with the therapist. Also, this might sound strange, but it might be helpful to decrease some of the random communication going on with your ex. Maybe try to keep it focused and only discuss the therapeutic stuff when you are with the therapist together with your son present. This will keep things from being misinterpreted or misrepresented all the way around. And will insure your son of confidentiality. I would recommend that the only time you or your ex have communication with the therapist is with your son in the room. Even ph conversations should never be had between a therapist and a parent of a high school student without the kid there. Otherwise the child will feel as if he has no confidentiality. If this is not the situation, I would change therapists promptly. The therapist should itemize for the child the only reasons that he might break confidentiality and speak to you parents without his consent…which would include things such as suicidal ideology, drug abuse, or physical abuse.
I would try to find a different source for the money to come out of rather than the drum sessions. There likely are lots of reasons his grades are down and I think defiance is probably low on the list, although I don’t know your son. The risk you run is punishing a kid who really might not be able to do as well as he used to be able to do. Most kids don’t drop in grades to prove any points. Usually it is a mix of depression/anxiety stemming from the situation. So he really might need the drums and those social connections now more than ever. The idea is to build up his social connections so that he will have outlets to share his feelings.
 
Tudoc, I hope that I haven’t missed something here, but is it possible for you to get primary custody of your son? As the mother of three boys, I know how hard it would be for a mother to raise teenaged boys without their father in the home. I had problems with my oldest son even when his father was just away temporarily for business. Boys need their fathers, and it looks as if your son’s mother may be trying to alienate him from you.
 
rainbow1 said:
I encourage you to ask your son directly about the issue at hand. It doesn’t sound like a comment a high school student would make to a therapist. But then it would be really awkward to have a therapist come right out and ask you why you are failing if you are a high school student …that doesn’t seem like a helpful question, and I wonder if it really was even asked. You will need to guard your relationship to your son. And have very clear communication with the therapist. Also, this might sound strange, but it might be helpful to decrease some of the random communication going on with your ex. Maybe try to keep it focused and only discuss the therapeutic stuff when you are with the therapist together with your son present. This will keep things from being misinterpreted or misrepresented all the way around. And will insure your son of confidentiality. I would recommend that the only time you or your ex have communication with the therapist is with your son in the room. Even ph conversations should never be had between a therapist and a parent of a high school student without the kid there. Otherwise the child will feel as if he has no confidentiality. If this is not the situation, I would change therapists promptly. The therapist should itemize for the child the only reasons that he might break confidentiality and speak to you parents without his consent…which would include things such as suicidal ideology, drug abuse, or physical abuse.
I would try to find a different source for the money to come out of rather than the drum sessions. There likely are lots of reasons his grades are down and I think defiance is probably low on the list, although I don’t know your son. The risk you run is punishing a kid who really might not be able to do as well as he used to be able to do. Most kids don’t drop in grades to prove any points. Usually it is a mix of depression/anxiety stemming from the situation. So he really might need the drums and those social connections now more than ever. The idea is to build up his social connections so that he will have outlets to share his feelings.
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geez…I agree with you this time 😃
 
I briefly spoke to my son’s therapist yesterday, thanking him for seeing my son this weekend. I said I would be willing to do a session with my son if he felt it would be helpful. I didn’t ask anything specific about the sessions. I also made arrangements to pay for the sessions (fax invoice to me, I send an check electronically). I won’t relate this to my ex unless she asks, or maybe the therapist will tell her. This is how I pay for my son’s drum lessons, and the teacher told my ex (she then sent me a thank you text 🙂 ).

Speaking of drum lessons, I spoke to my best friend from college, whom I’ve know now for almost 30 years. He is having serious problems with his son. He advised just keeping my son involved with drum lessons and even getting the keyboard my ex and son wanted back in September (Labor Day sale). He recommended not looking at it as rewarding bad behavior/school performance, but rather, something he enjoys that will keep him busy and out of trouble with other activities (surfing the Net, playing video games, or worse). So, I’ll pay for January’s lessons and ask the band teacher what keyboards he recommends.
 
tucdoc said:
I briefly spoke to my son’s therapist yesterday, thanking him for seeing my son this weekend. I said I would be willing to do a session with my son if he felt it would be helpful. I didn’t ask anything specific about the sessions. I also made arrangements to pay for the sessions (fax invoice to me, I send an check electronically). I won’t relate this to my ex unless she asks, or maybe the therapist will tell her. This is how I pay for my son’s drum lessons, and the teacher told my ex (she then sent me a thank you text 🙂 ).

Speaking of drum lessons, I spoke to my best friend from college, whom I’ve know now for almost 30 years. He is having serious problems with his son. He advised just keeping my son involved with drum lessons and even getting the keyboard my ex and son wanted back in September (Labor Day sale). He recommended not looking at it as rewarding bad behavior/school performance, but rather, something he enjoys that will keep him busy and out of trouble with other activities (surfing the Net, playing video games, or worse). So, I’ll pay for January’s lessons and ask the band teacher what keyboards he recommends.
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good for you! you are doing great dad!!!
 
Tuc,

I think it is very classy how you’re paying for your son’s expenses without having to go through your wife. She has taken notice, and I think that’s great.

One area I hope is in your favor is claiming your children as your tax dependents. I see all the extras you are doing, so I hope you at least get to claim that on your tax return. It won’t apply for this tax year, but it’s something I hope was pointed out to you.

Hang in there.
 
I don’t understand why your son is in therapy anyway. Seems to me when people get divorced they want to send the kids to therapy when it is the parents problems that need to be addressed. If you two would learn how to stop the hassle then the kids would settle down.

Maybe I am jaded but it has been my experience the therapists can keep you coming to them forever. That is the way they make money you know. The kids can be dragged to one therapist after another. The wife wants the kids to see her therapist since he will take her side, then the husband wants the kids to see his therapist since he will take the husbands side—whoever is bringing in the kid to them.

My hubby and many others call them hired guns. Building a case to take into court. My hubby had to do it when he saw his ex playing that game. Before you two get to that stage I hope you can get things squared away before the kids get pulled one way and another.

I HATE DIVORCE.
 
tucdoc said:
My son had a good session with the new therapist yesterday. He is expensive ($150/hr) and my ex and I had a disagreement whether 3 sessions before the end of the month is a “hardship” or not. Technically, she is to pay part of that. But she refuses as she is still mad about having to pay her attorneys fees. She felt that should have come out of “community funds”. Her share of those funds were used to buy me out of the house (at a significant loss in this market). So, again she went off on a tangent.

My point was that we should get our son the help he needs, but that we both need to be responsible for it. I was willing to pay the whole amount, but I asked that my son not have drum lessons next month ($180 for 4 sessions) to help off-set the cost. She became furious, as she knows how much cash I received. I told her I need that cash to basically start my life over (house, furniture, appliances, etc.). Also, I feel drum lessons are a privilege that he lost when he failed English. She doesn’t want to take his lessons away.

**She did say that during the session my son told the therapist that he is getting bad grades to get my attention. **I really don’t understand this. I’ve been there for him, and ****tried to get him to communicate throughout this whole process. I would like the two of us to have one of those session together so that I can better understand my son.
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I would bet he said he was getting bad grades to get both of your attention. He may have just said your attention since his mother was there. See how it goes? Kids do not want to hurt either parent’s feelings but they are put in the middle. What they really want is to have the divorce to go away and for their parents to get back together again. That feeling will last maybe forever. Eventually, they need to learn how to cope with divorced parents who won’t ever get back together again but it will take a long for them, longer for some kids.

Meanwhile, don’t let yourself become the “bad guy” or even letting the mother become the “bad guy” since it is not good for the kids. Even in a marriage one parent becomes the “bad guy” in certain circumstances but when working as a team it does not get lopsided. You take turns at it.

If you are only thinking of what is best for your son like getting passing grades and not letting school slip by, then they will take your side. Even the courts cannot be unfair when it is only sensible and good for the son. Being able to graduate from high school is important, they cannot deny that or they would be fools.
 
oneofmany said:
I don’t understand why your son is in therapy anyway. Seems to me when people get divorced they want to send the kids to therapy when it is the parents problems that need to be addressed. If you two would learn how to stop the hassle then the kids would settle down.

Maybe I am jaded but it has been my experience the therapists can keep you coming to them forever. That is the way they make money you know. The kids can be dragged to one therapist after another. The wife wants the kids to see her therapist since he will take her side, then the husband wants the kids to see his therapist since he will take the husbands side—whoever is bringing in the kid to them.

My hubby and many others call them hired guns. Building a case to take into court. My hubby had to do it when he saw his ex playing that game. Before you two get to that stage I hope you can get things squared away before the kids get pulled one way and another.

I HATE DIVORCE.
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I disagree on the value of therapy. My kids benefited from it tremendously, however, I will concur with the gist of what oneofmany wrote. The therapist is supposed to be treating your kid, be their therapist and do what is correct for the child and in the child’s best interest. Not what either of the parents want. My kids therapist made that very clear. As I posted before, I don’t have access to their records, the therapists provided a notification up front that they will not testify or provide records in a custody hearing. I only went to sessions when my child and the therapist agreed it was necessary. Glad you found a good one and hope he’s a good fit with your son. God was looking out for me and the therapist really meshed well with my kids. And the sessions didn’t go on forever- just 3 with my son; a couple of months with one daughter, about a month for the other daughter.

But absolutley agree that I HATE DIVORCE. I think the death of a parent is easier on a child in some ways.
 
I guess it depends on the state, because in my state the court can order the child’s records into court. Thus court ordered therapy can become a complete zoo. And in this state, alot of the therapist who do take court ordered cases are in it for the money and do extend sessions for months and months and the families cannot get out of it unless either both parents agree to stop or go back to court and get the court to change the order, which they won’t if one parent wants it to happen. It can amount to thousands and thousands of dolllars.
I think that divorce is oftentimes harder on adults than is the death of a spouse, unless there are complicating circumstances to do with the death. I know that people I know who are my age whose husbands have died seem to have recieved more support and more sympathy, and then also don’t have to deal with the annulment stuff etc…which to me seems to be one of the more difficult aspects. It is one thing to lose your spouse, but another thing to think your life is in some ways frozen for the rest of your life if an annulment is not granted and if you wish to remain active in the Church…
As far as with kids, I guess it depends on the situation as to whether death or divorce is worse…I have worked for years with bereavement issues with children, and in some cases where there is unresolved stuff, death of a parent can be sooo traumatic…because sometimes their hope is so long gone…
Difficult stuff…
 
styrgwillidar said:
I disagree on the value of therapy. My kids benefited from it tremendously, however, I will concur with the gist of what oneofmany wrote. The therapist is supposed to be treating your kid, be their therapist and do what is correct for the child and in the child’s best interest. Not what either of the parents want. My kids therapist made that very clear. As I posted before, I don’t have access to their records, the therapists provided a notification up front that they will not testify or provide records in a custody hearing. I only went to sessions when my child and the therapist agreed it was necessary. Glad you found a good one and hope he’s a good fit with your son. God was looking out for me and the therapist really meshed well with my kids. And the sessions didn’t go on forever- just 3 with my son; a couple of months with one daughter, about a month for the other daughter.

But absolutley agree that I HATE DIVORCE. I think the death of a parent is easier on a child in some ways.
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I’m happy you found a therapist with morals, a lot of people get the other kind. My hubby’s ex took the boys to a moral therapist, he didn’t say what she wanted him to say so she dumped him and went to another. He told her not to put the kids in the middle as it was bad for them. She therapist shopped until she found one who agreed with her and was willing to go along with her agenda.
 
I got a very nasty e-mail from my ex yesterday. She owes her attorney $11K and she insists it should come out of “community funds”. She used her share to buy me out of the house. She says she hates me and would move with the kids out of state if she could. She says she can never love me again and never wants me in “her” house.

Had she taken the offer 6 months ago she wouldn’t have incurred these fees. I’ve refused to pay for her attorney. I’m afraid that if I give in now, she will continue to ask for more money over and above what we’ve agreed. But, I now continuing the conflict is bad for the kids, and that she will likely continue to turn the kids against me. I am torn about what to do.
 
Save the email of course, you might need it someday. Honestly, since you are divorced, I would limit my contact with her. No need for you to ever be in “her house.” It is hers, and now it is her problem whatever comes up. She has whatever money she got through her lawyer and she needs to accept that life has changed, and life goes on. (But of course, she is jealous that yours goes on with more money than she has, even if it is because you have a job, something she should consider to pay her attorney.) How she even thinks you should pay out of “community money” is beyond my comprehension. Do not give in or it will never end.

If there is not going to be a change on your part in any of the arrangements /money I would just not respond to her e-mails. And if and when she sends a message though your children, I would send her an e-mail telling her not to do so. Of course, keep a folder of your e-mails to her.
 
tucdoc said:
I got a very nasty e-mail from my ex yesterday. She owes her attorney $11K and she insists it should come out of “community funds”. She used her share to buy me out of the house. She says she hates me and would move with the kids out of state if she could. She says she can never love me again and never wants me in “her” house.

Had she taken the offer 6 months ago she wouldn’t have incurred these fees. I’ve refused to pay for her attorney. I’m afraid that if I give in now, she will continue to ask for more money over and above what we’ve agreed. But, I now continuing the conflict is bad for the kids, and that she will likely continue to turn the kids against me. I am torn about what to do.
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I would be tempted to just pay it for her and keep the peace for the sake of the kids. Have an agreement drawn out that this is extra money that was not in the settlement.

Just my opinion. I’ve never been divorced, so I am speaking strictly from the perspective of opinion.

I’m kinda thinking that the kids will suffer more so if she’s angry and broke.
 
Irishmom2 said:
Save the email of course, you might need it someday. Honestly, since you are divorced, I would limit my contact with her. No need for you to ever be in “her house.” It is hers, and now it is her problem whatever comes up. She has whatever money she got through her lawyer and she needs to accept that life has changed, and life goes on. (But of course, she is jealous that yours goes on with more money than she has, even if it is because you have a job, something she should consider to pay her attorney.) How she even thinks you should pay out of “community money” is beyond my comprehension. Do not give in or it will never end.

If there is not going to be a change on your part in any of the arrangements /money I would just not respond to her e-mails. And if and when she sends a message though your children, I would send her an e-mail telling her not to do so. Of course, keep a folder of your e-mails to her.
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100%, do not respond to her email. if you give her the money, do it through your lawyer and her lawyer.
 
tucdoc said:
I got a very nasty e-mail from my ex yesterday. She owes her attorney $11K and she insists it should come out of “community funds”. She used her share to buy me out of the house. She says she hates me and would move with the kids out of state if she could. She says she can never love me again and never wants me in “her” house.

Had she taken the offer 6 months ago she wouldn’t have incurred these fees. I’ve refused to pay for her attorney. I’m afraid that if I give in now, she will continue to ask for more money over and above what we’ve agreed. But, I now continuing the conflict is bad for the kids, and that she will likely continue to turn the kids against me. I am torn about what to do.
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