Wife Has Given Up - Part 2

[EasterJoy]

I’m really at a loss with my son. I hate seeing him do poorly in school, and I really don’t think my ex is being very effective. So, do I let him flounder? Do I have a choice?

Talk to your son about the situation, and try to take a career coach tack as you do it. Connect high school success to his ability to get a job that will feed him while he works on his music career, not to mention a degree that might get him into college music programs if he decides he wants to do that. In other words, make the high school diploma a hoop to jump that will broaden his opportunities. Be totally understanding that he may not like it. Don’t argue that point. Instead, make it about serving his passion for music. The more skills you have, the more job choices you have, the more likely you can find a job that works with your desire to be a real musician. If he’s not a disciple in the Church of the Diploma, after all, you’re not going to be able to drag him through high school by the heels. No one could.

As for the piano lessons, you may want to give him this as a gift for Christmas: Definitive Piano Improvisation DVD Lessons (Home Study Course), by Yoke Wong, or something similar. A course like that–that is, one based not on sight-reading, but on chord sense and a technical facility with chord progressions-- lays a foundation that is entirely diffferent than the type that you would get from standard piano lessons, a foundation much more useful to a jazz musician. You’ll encourage his passion for music while keeping his schedule more flexible. Otherwise, if he really wants to learn jazz piano, try to find him a jazz piano teacher. At his age, standard lessons are not going to deliver the same bang for his efforts.

On the topic of the physical piano, make him a deal: the man that plays it, gets it. He might give his own instrument to someone who needed it, but not to somebody who won’t play it. Well, you’re a musician, too, even if you don’t get to be in an ensemble. The understanding is that if he practices the lessons he gets and plays the instument, great, keep it at his place, but you want it at your place when he goes off to college. “I’m a musician, too, man, you know what that means, throw me a bone here.” He’ll get that.

This is a musician-to-musician understanding, so keep your wife out of the deal. Also, look into whether he might rather you two start saving to get him an electronic piano that he can practice with anywhere (because they can take earphones) and take to performances if his band needs one. Again, keep your wife out of it, keep your divorce out of it, make this about what he’s going to want in light of his own career in music. Your only concern with third parties is to keep your daughter up on any financial above-and-beyonds that the deal entails, and asking her what sort of similar dreams she might have that would ask for a voluntary financial sacrifice from you.

 

[oneofmany]

I wouldn’t give it up. This poor guy is basically walking away with nothing.

He loves that piano and he should keep it.

My hubby left behind things he loved as well like his records. It’s just not worth arguing about it or going to court, you can bet the kids know what is going on,

BUT his ex may not have a problem with him having the piano so then it won’t be a problem at all.

 

[tucdoc]

For kids of divorced parents, they don’t have it so bad. They got to stay in the house and are at the school they chose. They see both parents regularly and are involved in extra-curricular activities. This weekend I paid for bell lessons for my daughter so that she can be in her middle school band and rented the bell kit. She said she wanted the kit, but that my son is also playing it (two for the price of one). She had a choir concert last night (at a synagogue for Hanukkah) and we had a good dinner together. She seems more pleasant with me when her brother isn’t around.

I spoke to my son yesterday about how he is limiting his options by not doing well in school. He said that I just want him to go to community college to save money. I responded that if does his best and that is where he goes, then I’ll accept it, and that money is not the issue. Yes, I have been upset with my ex-wife about his grades, and have spoken about community college as a sign of poor performance. But I did stress to his career choices might be limited if he end up in a community college. I also said that the reason I want him to do well in school is because I care about him. He said “I doubt that”, I said “I really do care”. I’m not going to argue with him, just continue encouraging him to get his work done.

I’m exhausted and need to take better care of myself.

 

[qui_est_ce]

**For kids of divorced parents, they don’t have it so bad. **

I have been thinking this too. Life isn’t fair. We need to stop making excuses for our kids.

They got to stay in the house and are at the school they chose. They see both parents regularly and are involved in extra-curricular activities. This weekend I paid for bell lessons for my daughter so that she can be in her middle school band and rented the bell kit. She said she wanted the kit, but that my son is also playing it (two for the price of one). She had a choir concert last night (at a synagogue for Hanukkah) and we had a good dinner together. She seems more pleasant with me when her brother isn’t around.

I spoke to my son yesterday about how he is limiting his options by not doing well in school. He said that I just want him to go to community college to save money.

Kids know how to push our buttons, don’t they? He’s already making excuses for himself.

I responded that if does his best and that is where he goes, then I’ll accept it, and that money is not the issue. Yes, I have been upset with my ex-wife about his grades, and have spoken about community college as a sign of poor performance. But I did stress to his career choices might be limited if he end up in a community college. I also said that the reason I want him to do well in school is because I care about him. He said “I doubt that”, I said “I really do care”. I’m not going to argue with him, just continue encouraging him to get his work done.

I’m exhausted and need to take better care of myself.

Keep up the good work.

Believe me, these are the hardest years, but when they hit 20 or 21, you’ll see - it was worth it.

God bless you.

 

[joanofarc2008]

I wonder if his mother is telling him some of these things. Are you all in family counseling. Obviously not to save the marriage or for reconcilliation but sometimes as part of child custody agreements family counseling can be mandated and it might sound like it would be in good order here before things get REALLY out of hand.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

For kids of divorced parents, they don’t have it so bad. They got to stay in the house and are at the school they chose. They see both parents regularly and are involved in extra-curricular activities. This weekend I paid for bell lessons for my daughter so that she can be in her middle school band and rented the bell kit. She said she wanted the kit, but that my son is also playing it (two for the price of one). She had a choir concert last night (at a synagogue for Hanukkah) and we had a good dinner together. She seems more pleasant with me when her brother isn’t around.

sigh. I haven’t been participating in the threads much…

Of course they have it bad. Their entire family structure is different now. They deserve parents who love each other. They don’t have that.

Take it as a given that they are upset about it.

I have a close person to me who is involved in family law…divorce is chaos on children. chaos.

Read about Father Mitch Pacwa, he was already a priest when his parents divorced, and he felt extreme anguish. He writes briefly about it “Forgive me father for I am frustrated”

As for community college, with this economy lots of people are going to community college and come out debt free.

 

[rainbow1]

For kids of divorced parents, they don’t have it so bad. They got to stay in the house and are at the school they chose. They see both parents regularly and are involved in extra-curricular activities. This weekend I paid for bell lessons for my daughter so that she can be in her middle school band and rented the bell kit. She said she wanted the kit, but that my son is also playing it (two for the price of one). She had a choir concert last night (at a synagogue for Hanukkah) and we had a good dinner together. She seems more pleasant with me when her brother isn’t around.

I spoke to my son yesterday about how he is limiting his options by not doing well in school. He said that I just want him to go to community college to save money. I responded that if does his best and that is where he goes, then I’ll accept it, and that money is not the issue. Yes, I have been upset with my ex-wife about his grades, and have spoken about community college as a sign of poor performance. But I did stress to his career choices might be limited if he end up in a community college. I also said that the reason I want him to do well in school is because I care about him. He said “I doubt that”, I said “I really do care”. I’m not going to argue with him, just continue encouraging him to get his work done.

I’m exhausted and need to take better care of myself.

Ditto the exhaustion sentiment. That goes hand in hand with parenting alone. Your comment about taking better care of yourself gave me food for thought all day. What do you do that helps to take better care?

 

[tucdoc]

I got my first massage yesterday. Boy, is my neck sore, but that’s where all the tension builds up, especially when I talk to my ex. I will also see my therapist today. I tried to get my son to see her, but my ex insisted that we wait until school is out next week and that he needs to study for tests tonight. I need to learn to pick my battles. It had been suggested during a settlement conference that the two of us meet with the therapist that had seen my son a few times to discuss parenting issues. My ex refused, and continue to refuse if I suggest it. She had also refused to go to marriage counseling last year. To me this seems as if she does not want to confront or correct her issues, and I’m afraid that my son is learning this evasive behavior as well since he hasn’t opened up in previous therapy sessions.

I can only do so much. My son will have to go to summer school and has limited some of his career options for now, and I have to accept that.

 

[Irishmom2]

My ex refused, and continue to refuse if I suggest it. She had also refused to go to marriage counseling last year. To me this seems as if she does not want to confront or correct her issues, and I’m afraid that my son is learning this evasive behavior as well since he hasn’t opened up in previous therapy sessions.

I can only do so much. My son will have to go to summer school and has limited some of his career options for now, and I have to accept that.

The only person you can change and help is yourself. You can encourage your son to do his best because in the end it is his life, but you cannot force him to open up. As unfortunate as that is, it is true. He needs to learn that he is responsible for his own life and that if he wants help, you will more than gladly give it to him, but it is his job to see that he does things as he should. As parents, we sometimes feel that we need to manage everything, but the bottom line is that we may be crippling our children by not allowing them to figure it out for themselves. Sometimes, we need to step back and let them stumble. Not forever, just long enough for them to realize that they are in charge of their choices, not us. And if their choices are wrong, they need to fix them.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The only person you can change and help is yourself. You can encourage your son to do his best because in the end it is his life, but you cannot force him to open up. As unfortunate as that is, it is true. He needs to learn that he is responsible for his own life and that if he wants help, you will more than gladly give it to him, but it is his job to see that he does things as he should. As parents, we sometimes feel that we need to manage everything, but the bottom line is that we may be crippling our children by not allowing them to figure it out for themselves. Sometimes, we need to step back and let them stumble. Not forever, just long enough for them to realize that they are in charge of their choices, not us. And if their choices are wrong, they need to fix them.

This.

I’ll bet the therapist tells him that too.

 

[tucdoc]

So I’ll focus on myself and accept the rest of my family’s decisions, as much as I disagree with what they are doing.

It’s been suggested to me that I am going through an identity crisis. I’m no longer a husband and have been curtailed in my role as a father. I cherished these roles I played, mostly in the evenings and on weekends and holidays. Now I have to figure out who I am. I focused so much on being a good provider and “serving” my family. I do that to some extent on my weekends with the kids, but otherwise I just send a check twice a month (that is the agreed on schedule). Right now I’m motivated by duty. I need to find things that I like to do, not just that I have to do.

 

[Irishmom2]

It’s been suggested to me that I am going through an identity crisis. I’m no longer a husband and have been curtailed in my role as a father. I cherished these roles I played, mostly in the evenings and on weekends and holidays. Now I have to figure out who I am. I focused so much on being a good provider and “serving” my family. I do that to some extent on my weekends with the kids, but otherwise I just send a check twice a month (that is the agreed on schedule). Right now I’m motivated by duty. I need to find things that I like to do, not just that I have to do.

I think there is some truth to this. And let’s not forget that sometimes, it may happen that your occupation is a big part of your identity also. Besides that and being a father and husband, who were you before any of those things? It is unfortunate that we sometimes lose ourselves when we marry–even willingly, we give up parts of ourselves, (perhaps due to responsibilities or lack of free time) and then one day wake up and discover we no longer know who we are as an individual. As for myself, I think that one day, God will ask me “why did you stop using the talent I gave you for painting?” We need to find what makes us unique, what makes us the person we are and nurture what God gave us.

If possible, I would suggest you take some time to be alone by yourself, away from your usual surroundings. Use the time to think, to pray, and to write down your inner thoughts. Reconnect with yourself, forgive yourself and focus on who you are, and who you want to become on your journey. God bless you and be with you, tucdoc.

 

[Serap]

So I’ll focus on myself and accept the rest of my family’s decisions, as much as I disagree with what they are doing.

It’s been suggested to me that I am going through an identity crisis. I’m no longer a husband and have been curtailed in my role as a father. I cherished these roles I played, mostly in the evenings and on weekends and holidays. Now I have to figure out who I am. I focused so much on being a good provider and “serving” my family. I do that to some extent on my weekends with the kids, but otherwise I just send a check twice a month (that is the agreed on schedule). Right now I’m motivated by duty. I need to find things that I like to do, not just that I have to do.

I agree. You need to find who YOU are now while still being there for your children.

 

[Raad]

Hey Tucdoc,

I’ve read through both threads now, heart breaking situation you have gone through.

But your faith is strong, you have held God’s hand through this and I’m sure that your relationship will continue to strengthen throughout your life.

In regards to your now ex-wife, she is a absolute cancer and like all cancers they need to be cut out!

A rather uncatholic response indeed, but nonetheless my opinion.

Your patience throughout this whole experience has been that of a saint, ridiculous internal strength you got there bud.

Don’t give in to any of her demands for more money, one thing that was abundantly clear from your posts over this period is that the ONLY!! thing she ever had any concern for was herself, and that meant worrying about your money in regards to her share.

I was sickened to my stomach when you constantly wrote about her ONLY!! concern was always of how she would cope financially, sickening.

I must ask, through this whole process it seems you never really openly confronted her to ask if she was ever engaging in sexual relations with these other men, on the perspective of an outsider it would be seem that it was most certainly taking place.

Get your marriage annulled asap, if its possible, I hope to God you are granted an annulment, find a good wife and move on.

God bless my friend!

Definitely in my prayers.

 

[EasterJoy]

I need to find things that I like to do, not just that I have to do.

That’s a very good idea. Reading Story of a Soul by St. Thérèse of Lisieux, we are reminded that even the strictest Carmelite monasteries have time set aside for recreation.

I know many priests who remember their seminary days, when there was a time set aside every day for recreation, during which the seminarians were forbidden to study. They called it “forced fun”, but they say it was an essential part of their formation.

Take that as your cue! If you can use your recreation time to re-connect with friends who have gotten too little of your personal time these past years, that may really be a boon to your emotional health.

 

[styrgwillidar]

So I’ll focus on myself and accept the rest of my family’s decisions, as much as I disagree with what they are doing.

It’s been suggested to me that I am going through an identity crisis. I’m no longer a husband and have been curtailed in my role as a father. I cherished these roles I played, mostly in the evenings and on weekends and holidays. Now I have to figure out who I am. I focused so much on being a good provider and “serving” my family. I do that to some extent on my weekends with the kids, but otherwise I just send a check twice a month (that is the agreed on schedule). Right now I’m motivated by duty. I need to find things that I like to do, not just that I have to do.

Incorrect. You are still a father. The circumstances have changed making it more of a challenge - but you are a father as long as you are committed to being one. Like now, giving your son what he needs, not what he wants. Be sure if he brings his grades up to provide positive attention and feedback, and emphasize how it will help him fulfill his dreams for himself.

Your kids could be testing your committment. It’s common. Do you love them enough to do the hard thing vice the easy? Will you keep being the Dad who cares enough to discipline or will you take the easy way just letting them do whatever?

As for the person who said boys tend to deal with it right away. Not all. I know several very angry teen-age boys, who got angrier at their mothers over time. Keep going to a therapist for advice about your kids if nothing else.

You are still serving your family. Its harder. Are you calling the kids every night? Did you manage to arrange the agreement to swing by and see them each day? (Still letting my ex visit each morning and she visits more during the week. I support her coming over and helping kids with their homework when she’s willing to. She ended up stopping visiting them on the weekends to try and push them to going to her place again.) Remember my advice, your ex may do something similar, find more and more reasons to have you take kids on her time. Document it.

I agree, you need to be you and find things you enjoy. You can not sit around being miserable. If there are any sports/activities you’ve toyed with doing, now would be a good time to start. Whether it’s ballroom dancing or skydiving. Or playing a different instrument. Or just working out.

 

[EasterJoy]

For kids of divorced parents, they don’t have it so bad. They got to stay in the house and are at the school they chose. They see both parents regularly and are involved in extra-curricular activities. This weekend I paid for bell lessons for my daughter so that she can be in her middle school band and rented the bell kit. She said she wanted the kit, but that my son is also playing it (two for the price of one). She had a choir concert last night (at a synagogue for Hanukkah) and we had a good dinner together. She seems more pleasant with me when her brother isn’t around.

I spoke to my son yesterday about how he is limiting his options by not doing well in school. He said that I just want him to go to community college to save money. I responded that if does his best and that is where he goes, then I’ll accept it, and that money is not the issue. Yes, I have been upset with my ex-wife about his grades, and have spoken about community college as a sign of poor performance. But I did stress to his career choices might be limited if he end up in a community college. I also said that the reason I want him to do well in school is because I care about him. He said “I doubt that”, I said “I really do care”. I’m not going to argue with him, just continue encouraging him to get his work done.

I’m exhausted and need to take better care of myself.

To clarify with him: if you select the right community college to start in and do well from the start, it won’t limit your future. I know an MD PhD who got a full ride through medical school, and he started at a community college to save money. I agree with your message that if he wants to consider choosing anything else, though, he’d better realize that 4-year colleges only take students who have accomplished more academically than being able to fog a mirror and show up with a check that won’t bounce. No grades, no choice: it will be community college or nothing.

Your daughter being better with you when your son isn’t around is probably a function of their stages in life, more than anything. I have twins, and they’re both better when they’re not around each other! Siblings like to get some time away from each other, especially one-on-one time with a parent, and that is a great gift to give them, whether you’re divorced or not. I’d highly recommend it!

 

[styrgwillidar]

To clarify with him: if you select the right community college to start in and do well from the start, it won’t limit your future.

Or the right courses at a community college. If he’s not sure what he wants to do, going to community college is a great way to get exposure to different areas, knock out general ed courses and explore subjects until you find what you’re truly interested in at a far lower rate than a four year university. I know folks who did that and it worked well for them. Instead of just picking a 4 yr university, they chose one with a well recognized program in their areas of interest. ( I also have one friend who went to a ‘good’ school on his parents dime, swapped majors every other year and ended up going to school 7 yrs and still no degree to show for it.) And a degree isn’t everything, a friend of mine going to school with me for an engineering degree discovered he had a love of wood-working, dropped out and eventually opened his own cabinet making business doing high end work. He’s made a very good living for himself at something he loves. Ended up going back for business classes as he expanded.

 

[oneofmany]

The one thing I noticed about divorce and it is easy to fall into, is when one parent gets very strict the other parent gets very lax and vice versa. Then the kids start playing one parent against the other. Kids are experts at divide and conquer to get their own way. This happens even if you two were still married. Divorce makes it worse because you can only go on what the kids tell you about the other house.

The ideal plan is if you two can get counseling on how to co-parent. Some places are even demanding divorced parents to get these classes. I don’t know how it works when the parents are fighting but a good counselor could get people to stop fighting for the sake of the kids and work out a plan that is best to help the kids and put them first.

What I saw happen to my step-sons is their father set down house rules and expected them to be followed. At times he was too strict and this worked against him. All the while his ex was letting the boys run her house, at least the older boy, and they didn’t have many rules to follow. Then you get the one parent speaking badly about the other and whining to the kids. A passive aggressive ex will especially do this.

Eventually, the older boy wanted to stop coming over to see his father and his mother and step-father (she was remarried by this time) supported him and took it to court. When the kids become teens the court will let them live where they want to live. I know, it doesn’t seem fair but what is fair with a divorce? My advice is to set your rules and be consistent but not demanding or too strict. Remember the kids are going through a transition and it is hard for all of you.

As far as for your own sake. If you have friends then go see them more and plan to do things for yourself. My hubby had good friends from his church and they would invite him over for dinner. Join the men’s club or the Knights at church so you will have your own interests. Then take it easy. I know it is hard to believe but your boys will be grown in no time and it goes so fast. Enjoy them when they are small.

 

[tucdoc]

I’ve repeatedly ask that my ex and I go to the therapist who saw my son so that we can discuss parenting issues. She always refuses. She doesn’t want anyone telling her what to do, myself or a therapist. And I am concerned that my son is developing the same attitude at a very young age. I have made an appointment with another therapist (male) recommended by the school counselor. He may be more open to discuss any teenage boy issues he has with him. He certainly is not open to discussing them with me. A couple of his friends already have girlfriends. I wish we could discuss these issues. A big concern I have is that now he won’t have an example on how to treat a girl/woman. He won’t see how to solve couples problems. But again, he may have seen mom manipulating to get her way. So, no marriage may be better than an unhealthy marriage as an example for my kids.