Wife has given up

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tucdoc said:
So, how do I get her to talk about the relationship without crying? How do I get her to get past the hurt? She doesn’t want to spend time alone with me. She would rather play Scrabble on her I-pad with people in Texas if she is not watching baseball. She has isolated herself from the friends from the kids school we used to be with. I am trying to be a better person, and I told her this already. I can tell her she needs to mature and act like an adult, but that will probably be ineffective. She doesn’t like me right now, partly because she thinks I’ve been telling family/friends about our problems (which I have) as she feels this is a private matter. I had to get verification from those close to us that how she was behaving was inappropriate, that it wasn’t just me.

So, should I just let her keep denying these are emotional affairs and just accept that she would rather have dinner with ANYBODY but me, especially if they like baseball?
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Verification? Ok, I’ll tell you. I talk with my best friend about EVERYTHING. I call her when I’m totally ticked off. and follow with…“Am I over-reacting?” She knows me well. And SOMETIMES, she says, “yes,you’re over reacting.” But I don’t call all those close to us to tell on DH, make him look bad to everyone. How is everyone going to treat your wife now? Like she’s an idiot? You’ve helped her into isolation. Everyone is judging her. They only know your side of the story, and they’re all ready for an intervention. Isn’t it possible that she really is JUST friends with these guys? And now everyone thinks she’s having an affair. Have you told your friends as well that you’ve been selfish sexually? (I kinda doubt that was ONE time. That’s usually habitual. Like she’s the acceptable deposit box for sperm… GUESSING HERE! Totally making assumptions.) That you call her names?

You don’t need verification that your feelings have been hurt. You KNOW they’ve been hurt. Dragging friends and family into it… it’s called getting back up. Drawing lines in the sand, everyone take a side.

Again, I know this sounds harsh. Like I’m pointing fingers here. I don’t mean to. I don’t think she should be going on overnights with ANYONE but you or some girlfriends. I do think, she needs to back away from these guys, as it CAN easily turn into something it shouldn’t, ESPECIALLY while she’s ticked at you. But, I hope this doesn’t turn into a way to prevent her from enjoying her hobbies, so you don’t feel threatened.

Again… Best!
 
Tucdoc: OK, here’s my two cents…I think you need to drop the “you’re having an emotional affair” thing with your wife. Are you right? Most likely. But, I don’t think she’s in a fog at all. Rather, I think she knows this eats at you. She’s ticked off because she believes (rightly or wrongly) that you’ve been a crummy, unattentive husband. So, what’s she do but go and enjoy her passion (baseball) with some “kind” guys who also enjoy the sport? Nevermind that she knows it (correctly so) bugs her husband.

At this point, you two are playing ‘tit for tat’ with one another emotionally. She won’t agree to counseling because she’s still intent (IMO anyway) on punishing you. Trying to get her into counseling at this point is unlikely to work.

My suggestion? Plan a surprise weekend for just you and your wife away from your hometown.No guy friends, no kids, just the two of you. Pick a great ballpark with a team you know she’d relish seeing. Get the best seats available and treat her to the “best” a MLB experience has to offer. I’d also suggest a nice hotel (nothing romantic per se since sex shouldn’t be your angle here) and maybe a nice sightseeing trip along the way. I would make this a TOTAL surprise. Don’t discuss it with her. Just make the arrangements and do it. When she asks you why you did it? Don’t tell her, “we need to work on us” or whatever. Just tell her, “I just wanted to do something nice for you.” No agenda. No angle. Just a husband doing something loving for his wife. What’s she supposed to say to that?

Is there risk involved? Sure. She could always tell you she isn’t going. But, taking that risk will definitely demonstrate you care. And, if nothing else, you’ve taken away the “you aren’t interested in me” argument.

Friend, I truly believe your wife just wants your attention and is going about it in a very, very poor way.
 
Irish Girl 68, I like your summary of the situation, and it sounds spot-on. I also like your idea of a baseball getaway, although my wife says she hates suprises.

Faithfully, your right about getting too many people involved. We were in a suite at the ballpark to celebrate my wife’s birthday with our family/friends. She invited the “friend” she went to New York with. I was still upset about that episode, so I asked several people about what they thought and how they saw her behaving around him. I should have just asked our one good friends opinion who was there. My wife is especially mad about one of the school mom’s texting her about what’s going on and how she is trying to help. She has good intentions but is misguided. I guess I felt I needed help in confronting my wife as she was not listening to me, but now I think it’s backfired.
 
tucdoc said:
Irish Girl 68, I like your summary of the situation, and it sounds spot-on. I also like your idea of a baseball getaway, although my wife says she hates suprises.

Faithfully, your right about getting too many people involved. We were in a suite at the ballpark to celebrate my wife’s birthday with our family/friends. She invited the “friend” she went to New York with. I was still upset about that episode, so I asked several people about what they thought and how they saw her behaving around him. I should have just asked our one good friends opinion who was there. My wife is especially mad about one of the school mom’s texting her about what’s going on and how she is trying to help. She has good intentions but is misguided. I guess I felt I needed help in confronting my wife as she was not listening to me, but now I think it’s backfired.
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Hey, we all make mistakes… I like Irish Girls Idea… I don’t beleive that people hate suprises… That tends to be a passive aggressive way at saying they want them, just don’t want anyone to know they want them… (well, ok, maybe there are one or 2 people that genually hates them… but whatever!)

You definitely sound like you are going to make an effort on all fronts. And that you’re willing to address any behavior of your own that might not be condusive to the best situation… Again, wishing you the best of luck! We all go through rough times… It bites! BIG TIME… hang in there… as you know, that which does not kill us…
 
Passive-aggressive is my life/wife right now. After this wrenching experience, I hope to be able to impart some wisdom to my children if they ever find themselves in a similar situation. Or, better yet, how to avoid the situation altogether.
 
tucdoc said:
So, how do I get her to talk about the relationship without crying? How do I get her to get past the hurt? She doesn’t want to spend time alone with me. She would rather play Scrabble on her I-pad with people in Texas if she is not watching baseball. She has isolated herself from the friends from the kids school we used to be with. I am trying to be a better person, and I told her this already. I can tell her she needs to mature and act like an adult, but that will probably be ineffective. She doesn’t like me right now, partly because she thinks I’ve been telling family/friends about our problems (which I have) as she feels this is a private matter. I had to get verification from those close to us that how she was behaving was inappropriate, that it wasn’t just me.

So, should I just let her keep denying these are emotional affairs and just accept that she would rather have dinner with ANYBODY but me, especially if they like baseball?
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There is a lot that your wife may deserve that is not going to work. There are many, many things that she ought to do, based on her vows to you, that there is no way whatsoever to force her to do. I think I’d let go of a “getting her to” expectation and instead look into your “giving her room to” options. You may need to balance keeping her corralled with avoiding giving her the feeling of being trapped. This is more like working with a spooked, injured (and OK, kind of ornery) horse than working with a predictable one. It is going to take a lot of patience and love, and with no guarantees. You’ll be feeling your way. There are better ways and worse ways, but there aren’t any tricks. You may think everything is going great, then get a rude surprise and have to start over. You may not succeed. Maybe no one could. It is still worth trying.

There is a lot you could do, things that may be your only chance, that may not work. It is a bad situation, and no matter whose “fault” anything is, there might not be anything that anyone can do to fix it. There are also things that take time to work. Even if you do everything “exactly right”, you can expect the road back to marital happiness to be two steps forward, one step back, three steps forward, five steps back, four steps forward, and so on. Resolve to do your best, but do not punish yourself about the outcome. As Babe Ruth said, “Don’t let the fear of striking out hold you back.” He hit 714 home runs in his career…and struck out 1330 times, a record he held with the home run record, for decades. Forgive me for the baseball metaphor, but this situation requires a Babe Ruth attitude. The road back is going to include some strike-outs. Get ready for that.

*You don’t have to get your wife to agree in order to get counselling for yourself. This includes marriage counselling. *Invest the time and money to find and avail yourself of someone you can talk to who not only can be trusted to be discrete, but who actually has some experience and some professional background concerning what does and does not work when it comes to mending relationships and holding on to your own sanity and the welfare of your family while you are in the process of trying. If the first counsellor doesn’t work out, don’t be afraid to find someone you can put some faith in. There aren’t any one-size-fits all counsellors. It is often a process to find the right person. Don’t let that come as a surprise.

Hang in there, do your best, turn over every stone for good help, but leave your success up to God. That will help you to keep some peace in your soul as you go through this.
 
tucdoc said:
Passive-aggressive is my life/wife right now. After this wrenching experience, I hope to be able to impart some wisdom to my children if they ever find themselves in a similar situation. Or, better yet, how to avoid the situation altogether.
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Please don’t lose hope, Tucdoc. I don’t think your wife has entirely given up. She simply doesn’t sound apathetic enough (from the tears you’ve described, etc) to completely throw in the towel.

To me, it sounds like your wife is just lonely and frustrated. Is she being immature? Yes, as a married woman myself, I think so. But, I also believe you need to look at the larger picture. It’s absolutely unacceptable for her to spend time with other men at the ballpark; The big question is why does she want to do it? Do they show interest in something she’s passionate about but she thinks you don’t understand? Do they make her feel attractive/younger? Are they just a way for her to escape being an adult? All three? It’s impossible to say, but I think her actions are clear evidence she craves YOUR attention. “He doesn’t care? Well, by God, I’ll make him care!”

So now you show her that you do care, Tucdoc. Try loving her like crazy even when she’s being entirely unloveable. Not an easy task, I know. And, I agree with Faithfully; the “I hate surprises thing” isn’t genuine. Seriously, who doesn’t enjoy an over-the-top act of kindness? But, don’t be afraid to throw yourself out there and try. This is your marriage. Work hard at it. Pray for strength and wisdom. Most of all never give up. God bless.
 
tucdoc said:
I am willing to move forward and get past all this hurt, but she is not. Even now I tell her I love her and I want our marriage to last. I’ve not asked our friends to intervene because I think it will make things worse. A loving marriage is good for the children, and I’ve told her that. I don’t know if I want to stay in this marriage if she can’t acknowledge her role in all of this. I’ve already told her I’ll take responsibility for what I’ve done. I also said I am willing to go to counseling with her so that she can say in front of another person how terrible a person I’ve been to her. I am staying for the kids, as well as for her own good; otherwise, she may never let go of the hurt or resentment. Why doesn’t she realize how much it’s hurting her?

Thank you newlife for your prayer. I pray to God everyday to soften my wife’s hardened heart.
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If you were to call me a *****, and tell me to get over it, my heart would probably harden too. And I had that phrase in mind before I read the softening above.

You tell her other women would be happy to be in her position. Sorry, my brother in Christ, but you obviously have no clue about what makes her happy. The good thing is that you’re trying.

I know we’re supposed to forgive, but it sounds like she’s at the end of her rope. I hate to agree with the others, but it sounds like these friends are more than friends. It may not have gone to the level of a physical affair, but it’s definitely at the level of emotional affairs. As a woman, I almost think that an emotional affair is worse.

I wish I had some advice, but I really don’t. But I think kicking up the respect level would be a good start. Calling her names is not the way to go, and really just reverses all the progress you may have made. I’m sure you’re frustrated beyond belief. If YOU aren’t seeing a therapist alone, I think you should. It will help you get additional insight.

I will add you and your family to my Rosary intentions.
 
Irish_Girl_68 said:
Tucdoc: OK, here’s my two cents…I think you need to drop the “you’re having an emotional affair” thing with your wife. Are you right? Most likely. But, I don’t think she’s in a fog at all. Rather, I think she knows this eats at you. She’s ticked off because she believes (rightly or wrongly) that you’ve been a crummy, unattentive husband. So, what’s she do but go and enjoy her passion (baseball) with some “kind” guys who also enjoy the sport? Nevermind that she knows it (correctly so) bugs her husband.

At this point, you two are playing ‘tit for tat’ with one another emotionally. She won’t agree to counseling because she’s still intent (IMO anyway) on punishing you. Trying to get her into counseling at this point is unlikely to work.

My suggestion? Plan a surprise weekend for just you and your wife away from your hometown.No guy friends, no kids, just the two of you. Pick a great ballpark with a team you know she’d relish seeing. Get the best seats available and treat her to the “best” a MLB experience has to offer. I’d also suggest a nice hotel (nothing romantic per se since sex shouldn’t be your angle here) and maybe a nice sightseeing trip along the way. I would make this a TOTAL surprise. Don’t discuss it with her. Just make the arrangements and do it. When she asks you why you did it? Don’t tell her, “we need to work on us” or whatever. Just tell her, “I just wanted to do something nice for you.” No agenda. No angle. Just a husband doing something loving for his wife. What’s she supposed to say to that?

Is there risk involved? Sure. She could always tell you she isn’t going. But, taking that risk will definitely demonstrate you care. And, if nothing else, you’ve taken away the “you aren’t interested in me” argument.

Friend, I truly believe your wife just wants your attention and is going about it in a very, very poor way.
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I think this here is pretty good 👍 I do have to say though that as much as I would be thrilled to be wrong I can’t shake the notion that this “emotional affair” deal has gone further than her just trying to get his attention. Even if that’s the case this would be a good positive step.

One thing’s fer sher this wholesale cake and eat it too thing she has going here absolutely must stop in the not very distant future. She can’t be living with you, flying around the country with other men and then telling you to hush up about it. She’s really gotta be kiddin if she expects ANY self respecting man to put up with that and she will never respect you either if you do.

If, for the sake of discussion she has become intimate with one of these guys you’re gonna have to face the fact that it will be quite a bit tougher to bring her home.
 
Irish_Girl_68 said:
Please don’t lose hope, Tucdoc. I don’t think your wife has entirely given up. She simply doesn’t sound apathetic enough (from the tears you’ve described, etc) to completely throw in the towel. >>>
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This is a fantastic point that, being a boneheaded man, didn’t occur to me. I’m gonna just throw out there that I’m betting that Tucdoc has been a bit worse in the past than he’s reporting too. Not because he’s lying, but because it’s human nature to see yourself being not as bad, especially in situations like this, than you actually are.

If she actually is just crying for your love then the ball is in your court. I don’t wanna sound kinky, but always remember that Christian marriage is a love triangle with Jesus in charge. If He is recognized as such then you have have He who “upholds all things by the word of His power” pulling for HIS marriage too
 
She says I treat her like s***. One area where this is probably true is with money. She’s not wanted to create a budget. So, when the bills come due, I get upset if they exceed a threshold I feel is appropriate. What’s going to make things more difficult is that I just paid off our mortgage with the sale of a business property. This is a problem because I know we have different priorities with regards to the extra money we now have each month. She wants to remodel the kitchen, I would like to keep saving for the kids college and our retirement. I’ve told her how much private (Catholic) universities are now, and it will only get worse. She would rather upgrade the cable service and paint the kids’ rooms. We have very different priorities, and she is not good at compromising. She again said that she is not interested in counseling, even if it’s for financial matters.

I know that money issues/priorities and how we react are part of the root problem which has led to her unhappiness/resentment, which led to her befriending these other guys. I don’t know how to address it if we can’t go to an objective third party, and I don’t know if she is willing to give any ground on this issue.
 
My advice is to go to survivinginfidelity.com. You are right she is in a fog. You need to 180 her butt and see if that will snap her out of it. Also, buy the book ‘Not just Friends’ by shirly glass. The 180 process is for you to protect yourself and find clarity in how to deal with this, but alot of times it’s just enough to get her to shift her perspective a little bit.
 
Painting, cable and remodeling…

Is there no compromise? Is the money not both of yours? Has she no say?

While I agree that savings would be the better route, I don’t see why the two of you can’t set up some tasks to work towards within a budget. For example, x% of the prior mortgage money would be diverted into an account with which to make upgrades to the house. Prioritize (both of you - not just you) what needs to be done and when it will be done. Help her make a projected spending plan that allows for the both of you to be somewhat happy.

If she still cares, as another poster suggested, and it appears she may, then you need to start the change today. Address her concerns. So she isn’t good at budgeting - do it together. She’ll never get better at it until she starts doing it, right?

Again - I hope you either are in therapy or are planning to make an appointment next week.
 
Kinda wonder what the current kitchen looks like.

In THEORY you’d be building equity in your home. So, generally a Kitchen remodel is not a bad investment. I would personally do the painting myself. So, Painting my kids room wouldn’t cost much more than maybe, Some Killz primer, 2 gallon cans of paint, and 1 can of trim. Plus a weekend with quality time with DH. (Granted he’d probably grumble.)

You two have GOT to get on the same page with budgetting. This is hard. I handle all the $$. I just call DH at the end of bill paying day and inform him what’s left. We go over numbers at least once a week. I plan to bring the kids into the budget conversation when they have a grasp on numbers. In the mean time, they get budgets when they go toy shopping. Which is really probably interpretted by the SIZE of the toy. You know, you COULD get wife a card with a differnt limit on it. OR, well this seems like babysitting, but one of those cards that calls/e-mails you when a purchase is made. So you can track it during the month.

Or HEY… why not determine how much can go towards HOME IMPROVEMENTS, and DW could use the cards on those. She needs to be impowered with household responsibility beyond daycare, and maid, cook. But she must STEP UP to the task.

So, you’ve got your kid’s Universities picked out. I think it’s awesome that you’re open and planning to help with really expensive schools. I wonder what their choices will be however. What will they study? Are these schools the BEST for those chosen topics. Or just the best Catholic Universities. Basically, I’m wondering who is controlling this choice. I can tell you I was pushed into Finance. I’m smart enough for it… I just HATE it! DH on the other hand is TOP NOTCH in a trade, that require a trade school not a University (a university education absolutely USELESS, for what he does.). He LOVES what he does. Interestingly enough, my parents are thrilled that I put myself through college in a topic I can’t stand. And my DH’s parents were horrified at his chosen profession, and refused to help. (until he graduated, then they helped pay down education loans.) Happiness never seemed to matter to anyone.

I’m actually going to assume that you’ve talked with your kids, and you’re planning based on their hopes and dreams… and not controlling the situation because it’s what’s best for them.
 
I think it’s too late. In talking about a budget I told her that a lot of my resentment with her came from her spending too much money and not wanting keep limits on spending. I was not as kind to her as I should have and that a lot of arguments came from this. I also recognized that her “friends” may make her feel special, but, since there’s no home or kids to worry about with them, and we been together 16 years, of course there will be more conflict with us than with people she just met this year. She admitted to feeling special around them, and anger towards me. She does not want to get back together, and is even considering divorce except she has to think if it would be best for the kids. She want me to leave because she doesn’t feel comfortable with me in the house. She has not gone to Mass for over a year, this after a misunderstanding with our priest. I offered to have us switch parishes, but she doesn’t even want to do this.

She is unable to forgive, and she has done this to other people who have offended her. She wont’ give me another chance. This is not going to end well.
 
tucdoc said:
She says I treat her like s***. One area where this is probably true is with money. She’s not wanted to create a budget. So, when the bills come due, I get upset if they exceed a threshold I feel is appropriate. What’s going to make things more difficult is that I just paid off our mortgage with the sale of a business property. This is a problem because I know we have different priorities with regards to the extra money we now have each month. She wants to remodel the kitchen, I would like to keep saving for the kids college and our retirement. I’ve told her how much private (Catholic) universities are now, and it will only get worse. She would rather upgrade the cable service and paint the kids’ rooms. We have very different priorities, and she is not good at compromising. She again said that she is not interested in counseling, even if it’s for financial matters.

I know that money issues/priorities and how we react are part of the root problem which has led to her unhappiness/resentment, which led to her befriending these other guys. I don’t know how to address it if we can’t go to an objective third party, and I don’t know if she is willing to give any ground on this issue.
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“We disagree about money, therefore she has found other males to befriend” is a bit of a stretch, but you are undoubtedly onto something in the big picture. Finances are a common source of stress in marriage, and one of the top stressors that end marriages. Your problem seems to be a combination of financial stress and what behavior each of you has decided is permissible when stress becomes a factor. Let’s face it: you both do things that ought not to go on in a marriage, ever, not for any reason.

Never, in decades and decades, did I ever hear one of my parents call each other a name that could be described as anything but affectionate. My husband and I don’t call each other names. That doesn’t mean we never tease each other about our faults or issues, but even the teasing ones were always affectionate teasing. Demeaning each other just does not belong in a loving marriage.

You will always have differences of opinion about something. The question is whether or not your relationship is always your top priority. Maybe facing up to those behaviors, the uncivilized or emotionally distancing ones that you allow yourselves when there are differences, is the place to start.

It would be ideal if you could get an impartial third party to help you learn how to hash it out, but that isn’t an option. Go yourself, read up yourself, and learn what works in hashing out disagreements with one’s spouse and what doesn’t.
 
tucdoc said:
I think it’s too late. In talking about a budget I told her that a lot of my resentment with her came from her spending too much money and not wanting keep limits on spending. I was not as kind to her as I should have and that a lot of arguments came from this. I also recognized that her “friends” may make her feel special, but, since there’s no home or kids to worry about with them, and we been together 16 years, of course there will be more conflict with us than with people she just met this year. She admitted to feeling special around them, and anger towards me. She does not want to get back together, and is even considering divorce except she has to think if it would be best for the kids. She want me to leave because she doesn’t feel comfortable with me in the house. She has not gone to Mass for over a year, this after a misunderstanding with our priest. I offered to have us switch parishes, but she doesn’t even want to do this.

She is unable to forgive, and she has done this to other people who have offended her. She wont’ give me another chance. This is not going to end well.
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Even if she hasn’t done it in the past, you might get her to re-write her “story” about you, and go back to the story that got her to marry you in the first place.

If she is willing to stay in the house for the sake of the kids, so that she continues to have contact with you, and if the way you interact with her changes, she may come around in spite of herself. Keep in mind that her new friends, whether they know it or not, are on thin ice, too. It is a matter of time before one of them does something to offend her, after all, isn’t it? You have the advantage over everyone else that she has a high priority reason to continue to tolerate your presence. You may be in a position to help the both of you re-write how your daily dramas play out. That may be what saves your marriage.

You only have until the kids leave the house, though. You’d better get with it. If you succeed, though, one of three things will happen: 1) You will have forged a better marriage than you have ever had, with far better communication and more loving mutual treatment 2) you will have learned the skills that will keep you from failing if this marriage turns out to have had a fatal flaw that doomed it from the beginning and you are able to embark on a second one, or 3) if the marriage ends out of fault, and not out of invalidity, you will at least know that from the moment you knew better, you did better, and you will be able to communicate with her in the best way possible as long as you both shall live, even if you can’t live together in peace.
 
The kids are 11 and 13. I again will take the high road, be as respectful and courteous as I can without trying too hard. I do love my wife. She did threaten to go see the Yankees in New York with her "friend’ if they go to the playoffs. I asked her to please not as she saw what it did to me last time. I admit I yelled at her at that time, and when she started crying, I said for her to go cry to her friend. If I didn’t love her, I would immediately divorce her if she went again.
 
Can’t see why You can’t go see the Yankees too? Is this guy going to pay for the trip?

This is getting crazy!
 
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