Wife has given up

[angelerulastiel]

Did she “threaten” or did she tell you she wants to go see them. Because for it to be threatening there has to be something she wants to do. Like maybe she said she wants to go see the Yankees if they make the play-offs, but she doesn’t want to go alone. Then it becomes either you go with her, or she finds someone else to go with.

And I wonder if you do love her. Do you want her to stay because you love her as a person, or because you don’t want your wife to leave. Do you want HER or do you want someone to fill the wife position.

And she’s only made these friends in the past year? So she was unhappy for years, you did nothing, and are now upset that she made friends with people who do make her happy?

I get the feeling you want to give order, even ones like be happy, and be obeyed without question. I feel like you want to make all the decisions for the family and have her happily agree without argument.

 

[EasterJoy]

The kids are 11 and 13. I again will take the high road, be as respectful and courteous as I can without trying too hard. I do love my wife. She did threaten to go see the Yankees in New York with her "friend’ if they go to the playoffs. I asked her to please not as she saw what it did to me last time. I admit I yelled at her at that time, and when she started crying, I said for her to go cry to her friend. If I didn’t love her, I would immediately divorce her if she went again.

“No,” scolded Yoda. “Do, or do not. There is no try.”

What you describe here is not the high road. Do not fool yourself on that point. I won’t dispute how you feel about your wife, but unless you mean by “as respectful and courteous as I can without trying too hard” that you will not try to rush or force anything, then doing that which is loving but only “up to a point” is not love, nor is it the high road. Staying well astride a high horse, maybe, but that is not the high road.

Refusing to let go is not the same thing as love. Either one can be present in a marriage without the other.

“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. Which of you wishing to construct a tower does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if there is enough for its completion? Otherwise, after laying the foundation and finding himself unable to finish the work the onlookers should laugh at him and say, ‘This one began to build but did not have the resources to finish.’ Or what king marching into battle would not first sit down and decide whether with ten thousand troops he can successfully oppose another king advancing upon him with twenty thousand troops? But if not, while he is still far away, he will send a delegation to ask for peace terms. In the same way, everyone of you who does not renounce all his possessions cannot be my disciple.”
Luke 14:27-33

Please, get some counselling. Figure out what you want out of your marriage, what you are willing to risk and sacrifice in order to get it, and then, having counted the cost, decide what you’re going to do. Whatever you do, though, don’t rush in with less than what the job will reasonably take and then feel yourself a tragic hero when you fail. Tragic, maybe, but foolishness and heroism are not the same thing.

If you don’t get a change in your outlook and skill set, then you are going to fail. You are not going to succeed by using only the skills, attitude, and prospective you have now. You need help. If you don’t get it, then you are on the road to divorce…maybe higher than the low road, but you can do better than winding up in a divorce that you took the resources to resist, but only applied in ways that would ultimately be without effect.

 

[EasterJoy]

PS Without getting into explaining the standings, it is extremely likely that the Yankees will indeed make the playoffs this season.

(Too bad your wife isn’t an Orioles fan…not that the fate of your marriage is really all that much tied to which team she happens to be rooting for…)

 

[Irish_Girl_68]

Tucdoc, I’m sorry things are developing this way. I have to be honest…at first I felt quite sorry for your wife. You struck me as sort of the neglectful husband and her as the ignored, depressed wife.

I’m not saying you’ve been or are in any way witihout fault here, but your wife wanting to run around with other men is dead wrong. Period. No getting around it. But, despite this, she wants you to leave the home you share because she’s not “comfortable”?

Baloney.

If your wife is uncomfortable, it’s probably because she can’t cavort around doing as she pleases without her husband and her own conscience getting in the way. Asking YOU to leave when you’re the one who wants to work it out? That’s insane. No way should you be the one to leave. If your wife is unhappy, uncomfortable (pick your adjective) then let HER be the one to separate from your family and leave the home. Yes, you have kids. And, I understand she’s a SAHM (let me know if I got that part wrong). But, given the ages of your children, I’d be willing to find alternate care as the need arose before I’d put up with this.

I’d be fair about it. I’d tell her I wasn’t leaving but that you could flip a coin to determine who keeps the bedroom versus who’s getting the couch. As for the finances? I’d get my own account, letting her keep the primary one you two share. I’d split the finances straight down the middle LESS the amount of money she’s spending monthly at the ballpark. If she wants to watch baseball and hang out with men who aren’t her husband, let her get a job to pay for it. Same with the whole playoff scenario. No reason you (or your children for that matter) should let the family budget be eaten away by this ridiculousness.

Will this change anything? I have no idea. But, if nothing else, you need to show your children YOU aren’t going anywhere. Your marriage may not survive this, Tucdoc, but I’d never give my children any reason to think I was the one giving up. Good luck. You and your family are in my prayers.

 

[Samson01]

Tucdoc, I’ll just repeat what a wise priest told me. For a month, don’t question, just greet her when she comes home with an “I love you”, no drama…and listen to what is said. Stay busy.

 

[tucdoc]

Easterjoy, the comment on “trying” was to counter my wife’s comment that now I’m trying too hard. She doesn’t think I can now complement her appearance (which these other guys have) without seeming to be a fake. My attitude is changing. I could actually calmly ask my wife what is so attractive about these guys, which I couldn’t have done earlier. This needs to be a natural change, which is starting.

Irish Girl 68, I do admit to neglecting my wife’s emotional needs, and not understanding how she couldn’t be happy with everything she has. I don’t condone what my wife’s done, but I told her I’m trying to understand why she did it. I have not plans to leave our home. Maybe that will force her into some action and out of this limbo.

Samson 01, I won’t be asking my wife question anymore. I think I’ve figured out what led to this mess. It was more than just calling her a b****. She was unhappy before that, and I remember asking what she wanted but she couldn’t answer. Now, I know she wanted to be told that she is beautiful.

I do feel more at peace. I told my wife I now know the only person I can control is myself. Everybody, please keep praying for us.

 

[iamrefreshed]

You need to put your foot down about her travelling with other men. Frankly, I’m shocked you would tolerate it.

If she goes, change the locks.

Women don’t respect doormats.

 

[tucdoc]

I guess I would give up hope on reconciling if she were to go to New York again. If she were that d*** insistent on seeing a Yankee game I could accompany her, but she say she doesn’t want to be alone with me. She is doing everything she can to undermine this marriage.

 

[EasterJoy]

Easterjoy, the comment on “trying” was to counter my wife’s comment that now I’m trying too hard. She doesn’t think I can now complement her appearance (which these other guys have) without seeming to be a fake. My attitude is changing. I could actually calmly ask my wife what is so attractive about these guys, which I couldn’t have done earlier. This needs to be a natural change, which is starting.

Irish Girl 68, I do admit to neglecting my wife’s emotional needs, and not understanding how she couldn’t be happy with everything she has. I don’t condone what my wife’s done, but I told her I’m trying to understand why she did it. I have not plans to leave our home. Maybe that will force her into some action and out of this limbo.

Samson 01, I won’t be asking my wife question anymore. I think I’ve figured out what led to this mess. It was more than just calling her a b****. She was unhappy before that, and I remember asking what she wanted but she couldn’t answer. Now, I know she wanted to be told that she is beautiful.

I do feel more at peace. I told my wife I now know the only person I can control is myself. Everybody, please keep praying for us.

So you do mean that you will not try to rush or force anything…that is excellent. You had me very concerned for a minute, there.

You’ll be in my prayers, but I have one idea in parting. I already suggested John Gottman’s books. These are excellent sources for identifying poisonous communication habits, and I highly recommend them.

Another book that I found quite enlightening was “The 5 Love Languages”, by Gary Chapman. There is a web site, too: 5lovelanguages.com/.

You might find the book very enlightening with regards to how you might be doing or saying things that say “I love you” in *your *love language, while not saying or doing things that communicate that in her love language. That may give you more positive (name removed by moderator)ut (“do this”) than Gottman’s books, which run somewhat more into staying out of destructive habits of communicating (“avoid putting it this way” and “beware of reacting this way”).

I know you won’t be optimistic about your chances of getting her to take a quiz, but just by reading the book you might get a better idea of the varied prospectives on what is and isn’t loving behavior. If you think about that in light of things your wife has said, you might be able to piece together what will seem more emotionally supportive to her than the ways of loving that you have been trying. Consider, too, that if you understand what she considers an act of sacrificial love, you’ll be in a better position to recognize and compliment what she does, instead of missing it.

 

[Tiribulus]

You need to put your foot down about her travelling with other men. Frankly, I’m shocked you would tolerate it.

If she goes, change the locks.

Women don’t respect doormats.

Absolutely. That’s what I was saying before. This is outrageous. She is running around with other men and SHE wants HIM to leave? I also think that while he isn’t handling everything in a godly manner she is overplaying this whole “I’m so abused” angle. Geez oh pete’s, yes words do hurt regardless of the old saying, but she is acting like he’s beating her or something. She either is going to commit to pleasing God in her life and marriage or she can find somewhere else to live and someone else to finance her shenanigans if it were me. One of these wonderful new friends maybe? I would also look her straight in the eye and demand that she tell you if she is having sex with any of these men. I really believe she is from what your saying. She is YOUR wife and you have the right to know. I can’t believe this even has to be said.

 

[Milesius]

I’m very sorry about what this has come to.

All your problems are caused by your allowing her to have male friends and now you have done that for so long I am sorry I don’t know how to fix it.

Some way needs to be found to get her to stop thinking about herself and to start considering the children perhaps but again I don’t your wife to know what would work.

 

[Milesius]

What I would do if I was you is keep saying sorry and never get tired of saying sorry and never get angry when she says bad things about you, be humble and keep asking for forgiveness, and keep asking her what you can do to make it up to her. In short be penitent just like you would be at confession.

Don’t argue and don’t defend yourself even if you know she is wrong and don’t get angry. You have tried that its not working is it? So you need to put yourself aside.

At the same time stop funding her trips to go hang out with other men, and try and stop her from hanging out with other men altogether.

They will always seem better to her than her husband because she gets to see her husband at his lowest while she only sees thee other guys during fun and enjoyable times like ball games. So she sees only their best side while seeing her husbands bad side.

To counteract this you could try and get that working in your favour by doing things with her you know she will have fun and enjoy, then she will start to associate you with those good times she is currently associating these other guys with, but you must be sure to enjoy it and have fun to for that to work.

And lastly do not be the one who keeps saying that you need to talk about it, how you act towards her will be more powerful than anything you can say anyway.

 

[Milesius]

She is unable to forgive, and she has done this to other people who have offended her. She wont’ give me another chance. This is not going to end well.

You need to stop thinking like this, First of all you are blaming her, and even if she is to blame thinking like that is not going to help the situation you will just end up playing the blame game going back and forth and growing further and further apart, someone has to lay down their arms and that someone has to be you.

Secondly as long as she is still talking to you there is a possibility to get a second chance. And as long as the end has not come there is still the possibility of a good ending.

 

[Sheeniac]

Now, I know she wanted to be told that she is beautiful…

AGHHHH… my dear, you just don’t get it, do you? It’s tough because “hearing” only one side, I can still manage to come up with a dozen scenarios but NONE of them is because she wants to be told she is beautiful. It seems like you don’t know

Sorry, but you really don’t seem to respect your wife at all, and your life together will be filled with stress. You can’t change her, but you can change you. And changing you will change her.

Now I’ve asked twice about individual therapy, as have one or two others. Perhaps I missed your response, or maybe you’re not seeing my posts

Sorry Milesius , but all of his problems started much earlier than the “friends”.

 

[tucdoc]

Sheeniac, your right. The problem started because I took my wife’s happiness for granted, expecting her to be satisfied with her lifestyle. I recall being asked by co-workers what I was giving my wife for her birthday or Christmas, and I would respond “a life of leisure”. That’s not enough. There were also times that I felt if I was satisfying her, she should satisfy me (sexually). I’ve apologized for doing that to her, but she is just coming to terms with how she felt in those instances. I have started seeing a therapist, and she said to not move out.

Milesius, I told her that I’m seeing a therapist to help me be a better person. I know it will take time to make changes, and my wife is skeptical about my ability to change. I’m not chasing her down to talk about our relationship anymore. The last conversation occurred because we had to come up with a budget, and I wanted to “propose” rather than “impose” a solution. Her response was “whatever”, but I kept asking her if she was O.K. with it

Easterjoy, I hope my wife even gives me a chance to be emotionally supportive. I’ll pick up the book. Since we’re still in the same house, I trust there will be opportunities to show my love to her.

 

[faithfully]

I’m very sorry about what this has come to.

All your problems are caused by your allowing her to have male friends and now you have done that for so long I am sorry I don’t know how to fix it.

Some way needs to be found to get her to stop thinking about herself and to start considering the children perhaps but again I don’t your wife to know what would work.

This is a very interesting comment.

We are to have Free WILL… That’s what God has extended us. How EASY it would be if God proved his existence in terms NO ONE can deny. And we are taught how very sad he is when we fall… We, in human terms, break his heart…

Yet, he STILL allows to CHOOSE him…

The problem in our human status is that we think we “allow” people to do anything. And , well, as humans, we can decide that NO ONE will walk on us again, and we FIX this by walking away. NOT BEING the doormat.

I’m just having a HUGE WOW moment…

TucDoc… I’m so sorry you are going through all of this. And that your wife is going through all of this. She must be having such a crisis of faith and EVERYTHING that goes with it.

Keep praying that you and she both start doing what God wants you to do! Ask your guardian angel to pray with her angel. If you want to save this… Get ready to put yourself out their, and treat her in ways (GOOD) that she doesn’t even seem to disserve…

 

[faithfully]

Sheeniac, your right. The problem started because I took my wife’s happiness for granted, expecting her to be satisfied with her lifestyle. I recall being asked by co-workers what I was giving my wife for her birthday or Christmas, and I would respond “a life of leisure”. That’s not enough. There were also times that I felt if I was satisfying her, she should satisfy me (sexually). I’ve apologized for doing that to her, but she is just coming to terms with how she felt in those instances. I have started seeing a therapist, and she said to not move out.

Milesius, I told her that I’m seeing a therapist to help me be a better person. I know it will take time to make changes, and my wife is skeptical about my ability to change. I’m not chasing her down to talk about our relationship anymore. The last conversation occurred because we had to come up with a budget, and I wanted to “propose” rather than “impose” a solution. Her response was “whatever”, but I kept asking her if she was O.K. with it

Easterjoy, I hope my wife even gives me a chance to be emotionally supportive. I’ll pick up the book. Since we’re still in the same house, I trust there will be opportunities to show my love to her.

And based on what I just wrote… and what you wrote in that first paragraph… OUCH… I can see the pain she is in… Perhaps she is choosing not to be a door matt… And we are often taught “people don’t change”… You’ve got some major changing to do…

At this point, I would ask her to extend you some time… What else has she got to lose???

 

[Sheeniac]

At this point, I would ask her to extend you some time… What else has she got to lose???

Good point!

Here’s some good advice that I probably couldn’t do: Ease up on her in terms of ‘talking things through’. If I were her, I would just want to see change, not hear about it. Maybe mentioning that you aren’t happy completely with the marriage either, and that you recognize that you have a role in how things have turned out. Tell her that you know you may need to make some changes to for yourself. ← Key point.

If she thinks you are trying to change for her, we all know that won’t work. I wouldn’t say much more on the topic. (Again, this is good advice I probably would find **difficult **to follow!)

 

[Tiribulus]

<<< And , well, as humans, we can decide that NO ONE will walk on us again, and we FIX this by walking away. NOT BEING the doormat.

I’m just having a HUGE WOW moment… >>>

Look, I don’t wanna start controversy here as this guy has enough to deal with as it is, but if you are saying that his duties as a Christlike godly husband include allowing and paying for her to live in open adultery then I’m having a huge wow moment. Tucdoc is not the prophet Hosea and he is not walking away by refusing to permit flagrant unrepentant immorality before God or his children who WILL one day find out. She has already left. She MUST stop and return to her husband or nothing else will go anywhere.

<<< She must be having such a crisis of faith and EVERYTHING that goes with it. >>>

There’s no doubt about this.

<<< Keep praying that you and she both start doing what God wants you to do! >>>

This is the key to everything. There is no magic psychological principle or high human virtue that can rescue a down spiraling disaster like this. Unless THEY, as you say, are willing to live as having:

been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Galatians 2:20)

then anything else he does is but delaying the inevitable. The sin subduing power of the living resurrected Christ is the only hope here.

 

[faithfully]

Look, I don’t wanna start controversy here as this guy has enough to deal with as it is, but if you are saying that his duties as a Christlike godly husband include allowing and paying for her to live in open adultery then I’m having a huge wow moment.

No… not at all. The verbage that was used in what I had quote… that he “allowed her to have male friends.”

It always makes me cringe when I hear someone say something like that. She is her own person who must make her own decisions. That’s how we are designed. We are given a very strict set of rules by God (she’s obviously not following those.) But it’s HER not HIM that is doing the allowing. It’s not clear if the 2 of them ever established “these are our rules.” I’m pretty sure I said in an earlier post… for example, DH and I have friends of the opposite sex. But we’re BOTH involved in these friendships. There is no, “he’s MY friend, not yours, you’re not welcome. That’s not going to fly.” And if one of us were to fall into that, there would be some SERIOUS words. Those are ground rules though. NOT, Hey, I “let” my husband have friends.

So, YES, he should say in the most basic form “I’m not going to finance a trip so you can go off and just do what you want with complete disregard for our marriage.” But it’s HER that has to decide to stay home, her that has to dump these friends.

There’s a lot of control seeping into these posts.

Yes, SHE needs to remove others from her marriage if it’s going to work.

The sad thing, Tuc, is that you’re starting to fess up to treatment that pushes a person away. We are designed to want love and compassion. We don’t belong to people… So, as I said earlier: When you say your response to “what are you giving your wife for her birthday or Christmas…” is a “life of liesure”… So long as she cleans the house (not liesurley btw…) that you have claimed to get on her about, and satisfying YOU sexually… Well, I guess I would ask, WHAT do you have to offer should your biz go bankrupt? WHAT if your entire financial portfolio had a ZERO balance tomorrow. How would your wife know that you love her? Because the way you’ve defined it, I guess she wouldn’t. And sadly, she doesn’t seem to know better. But this is a situation, I suspect ,you’ve created TOGETHER. Unless of course she’s always been a gold digging narccisst and you’re just now figured that out, because you’ve fed it…

Regardless, I do think you’re on the right track seeking self counceling so that you can be the best husband you can be.