Wife has given up

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SonCatcher said:
I agree there is conflict between the individual person and the married person, since when the individual is married, (s)he does not cease to be an individual. It is up to the individual then to yield to the marriage. When that happens, the marriage (two persons, one flesh) is strong. When an individual fails to yield to the design of marriage, (s)he attacks it.
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👍 Thank you for saying this better than I!
 
I left the book next to the armchair is use when I read or watch TV, so she should notice.

This AM she told me she spoke to her brother. I tried to reach him last month to get his take on the situation since he also met the guy and saw how my wife behaved with him, but I never did talk to him. She said his advice was to do what she thought was best for her. I said nothing, since I really don’t know what SHE THINKS is best for her, only what I think is. I worry that she won’t think, but make an emotional decision. But, as I told her before, I can’t control her. Strangely, I was not upset by what she told me, just uncomfortable. I’ve accepted that I alone can’t fix the situation, only with God can with my wife’s consent. I’m actually at peace, which is what I’ve been praying for. By letting go, I’ve actually gained.
 
tucdoc said:
<<< She said his advice was to do what she thought was best for her. >>>
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This was some very unchristian terrible advice. She needs to do what God wants her to do which is to pour herself into that marriage. It will take time, but for now she needs to get pointed in the right direction. >>>
tucdoc said:
<<< I’ve accepted that I alone can’t fix the situation, only with God can with my wife’s consent. I’m actually at peace, which is what I’ve been praying for. By letting go, I’ve actually gained.
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Being a Calvinist I don’t believe God is at the mercy of your wife’s consent, but that’s a humongous other topic that I won’t get into though I couldn’t help myself, forgive me:rolleyes: However, this is the right track. Let her see you strong and at peace, which isn’t the same thing as aloof and distant, but give her something in Christ to be attracted to. Obedience to Him = power. If you think you can do it better, He will let you try (yes, this is fully consistent with my Calvinism:hmmm:) and like anybody else you will drive her away with your self indulgent efforts. (jist throwin some stuff out there)
Prayer continues:knight2:
 
Your first comment brings up an interesting point. My wife became Catholic (by her own choice) just before we married 14 years ago. She no longer attends Mass. It seems she’s become disillusioined with the Church. Obviously she is not playing by “the rules”. I am worried that it may be difficult to really have a deep, committed relationship with her if she remains the focus of her world. Unless God changes her narcissitic ways, it will be difficult for her to enter into a truly loving relationship. I thought we had this early in our marriage, but we definitely don’t now.
 
tucdoc said:
Your first comment brings up an interesting point. My wife became Catholic (by her own choice) just before we married 14 years ago. She no longer attends Mass. It seems she’s become disillusioined with the Church. Obviously she is not playing by “the rules”. I am worried that it may be difficult to really have a deep, committed relationship with her if she remains the focus of her world. Unless God changes her narcissitic ways, it will be difficult for her to enter into a truly loving relationship. I thought we had this early in our marriage, but we definitely don’t now.
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You’re addressing this to me I take it?
 
I’m addressing this to anybody still reading this thread. I feel that I’m doing all the work as I am still honoring the vow of marriage I took, which my wife obviously is not. I also feel right now it’s better for us to raise our children together.

I do need to confess something to the forum. This AM my daugther remebered to get her PE T-shirt as we were in the car about to leave for school. She couldn’t find it. My wife had said that it I was suppossed to have dried it but she couldn’t find it in the dryer. They both were frantically looking for it, as we had 10 minutes to get to school. I found it in the dryer, and tossed it in my daughter’s face as we left the house. I apologized for this as I dropped her off at school, she she slammed the car door and said nothing. I believe I gave my daughter the brunt of my anger, rather than directing at my wife, as my wife has said repeatedly that she feels like a child when scolded. More planning and foresight on all of our part would have prevented this. But with the underlying emotional dissatisfaction, I’m worried that running the house is becoming more difficult.
 
tucdoc said:
I’m addressing this to anybody still reading this thread. I feel that I’m doing all the work as I am still honoring the vow of marriage I took, which my wife obviously is not. I also feel right now it’s better for us to raise our children together.

I do need to confess something to the forum. This AM my daugther remebered to get her PE T-shirt as we were in the car about to leave for school. She couldn’t find it. My wife had said that it I was suppossed to have dried it but she couldn’t find it in the dryer. They both were frantically looking for it, as we had 10 minutes to get to school. I found it in the dryer, and tossed it in my daughter’s face as we left the house. I apologized for this as I dropped her off at school, she she slammed the car door and said nothing. I believe I gave my daughter the brunt of my anger, rather than directing at my wife, as my wife has said repeatedly that she feels like a child when scolded. More planning and foresight on all of our part would have prevented this. But with the underlying emotional dissatisfaction, I’m worried that running the house is becoming more difficult.
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I think you’ve been forthcoming with the admission that you are not without fault in the situation.

You cannot do all the work, and you particularly not feel that you are doing all the work, and remain someone that anyone can live with. You have to have some help with the inevitable resentment that is building up and which comes out in ways that are too much to handle. I think you’ll not save your marriage by keeping a count of blame and making sure that none of the big stuff lands on you, either. In the end, you and your wife have to be on the same side, or this story is going to end badly, and that is all there is to it.

Find yourself a Simon of Cyrene, preferably more than one, and not here. Find somebody who can ask you questions and get your answers and help you think about this where no one in all of cyberspace (or any other space) is allowed without an invitation. Find real flesh-and-blood help, not the virtual kind.

I don’t just mean a confessor. I mean either a counsellor or a spiritual director, as well. Maybe a Catholic marriage counsellor. Even an hour once or twice a month will help, if it goes along with a daily dose of reflection and prayer.

I’m convinced you have the will and the strength to do your part, and I think you may even have a good chance of getting your marriage through this intact. There is every indication, though, that if you don’t get some help, you are not going to succeed. You need some help. Please find some. Be generous with yourself, for that matter. The stakes are very high. Get as much help as you can, in as many ways as you can think of. (And while you’re at it, you probably ought to talk to a lawyer, so you’ll have an idea how to not lose your parental or other rights by unintentional mistakes.)
 
My therapist is Christian and pro-marriage. She is also a child therapist. She has advised me to be firm in keeping our son in the Catholic school, whereas my wife has threatened to pull him out because she is concerned that the families are talking about her. I met with my therapist just after my wife had sent me a text saying she wanted to have dinner with one of her “friends”. I said no, my wife screamed at me, but my therapist agreed with me. She is not advising divorce, but to stay strong for the family’s sake. This was difficult to do this AM, but I will continue to pray for strength.

I also have a good friend from (Christian) college who was on the brink of divorce a few years ago. He initially refused conselling with his wife, but later agreed, and they are still together. His advise was to never give up.
 
I think you’ve gotten some good advice and I’m learning from it as well.

Listening to the feelings your wife has is tough, but good. As my fiance said to me once ‘but it’s just your opinion’, well, yeah! And my opinion, and his, are the ones that count in a relationship.

Re: her brother… I would suggest not contacting him. Your wife already feels that you’re going around behind her back, so to do so would reinforce the feeling. While what he said may not have been good Christian advice, it is understandable. She won’t do what isn’t good for her, regardless of one’s standards for making that judgment call. What he did was… ‘I don’t want to destroy any future relationship with her’.

Look at his position - if he says to leave, and she doesn’t, she will regard him as uncaring towards her marriage. If he says to stay, and she doesn’t, she will view him as forever judging her. His statement was the least damaging thing he could say. So, file that under ‘neutral stances’.

BTW - I know it’s hard, but please work on releasing your anger in another way rather than on to a person. A. it’s a good trait to have in general, and B. releasing it on another person is causing more tension in the house.

Scolding? EEK - my SO does that to me on occasion. It infuriates me. No one has a right to do that to me or another adult, except maybe my mother. Otherwise, it is treating someone as less than an adult. I don’t do it to him, and expect the courtesy back. Your actions may have come across to your daughter as an insult to both her and her mother.

I feel for her, since this tension is getting to everyone in your household, not just you and your wife. The kids are really suffering and don’t want to take sides.

You and yours remain in my prayers…
 
Personally, if these other families are talking to their children about your family problems, and those children are talking to your son about it… THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM!!!

I wouldn’t want to mess with his education. But school is tough enough not to have to hear about your cra**y family situation from other kids at school. If this is even remotely a problem, I WOULD BE ON THE PHONE immediately with these “friends” letting them know they are making matters WORSE. And to PLEASE use some adult discression with regards to adult conversations around their children concerning YOU. I don’t care what kind of help they offered you when your wife was away caring for her mother… A GOSSIP is NOT going to help your kids through this. Also, if this is possibly happening, I would imagine a talk with your Son is also very important. God only knows what he’s hearing. And regardless of what your and your wife are up to, he doesn’t need someone’s version of the story…other than yours and hers.
 
tucdoc said:
My therapist is Christian and pro-marriage. She is also a child therapist. She has advised me to be firm in keeping our son in the Catholic school, whereas my wife has threatened to pull him out because she is concerned that the families are talking about her. I met with my therapist just after my wife had sent me a text saying she wanted to have dinner with one of her “friends”. I said no, my wife screamed at me, but my therapist agreed with me. She is not advising divorce, but to stay strong for the family’s sake. This was difficult to do this AM, but I will continue to pray for strength.

I also have a good friend from (Christian) college who was on the brink of divorce a few years ago. He initially refused conselling with his wife, but later agreed, and they are still together. His advise was to never give up.
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This is very good to hear. It is these people who can be really present to you who are going to be your greatest help and who can give you the most discrete and on-target advice.

Hang in there. You have no guarantee of success, but your quest is worth of the sacrifices your making. May God bless you.
 
You get angry at your wife because she couldn’t find the shirt? And you think that you should be directing your anger at her for this incident? Not just letting it go because people forget things and sometimes it can be hard to find a particular item in the dryer when in a rush? And other posters are right, you shouldn’t be scolding your wife. You are her husband, not her father. Discuss concerns if they are worth it, but you don’t need to lecture or scold.
 
Well, she went out to see her “friend” tonight, the “friend” she told that she was unhappy with her marriage. She says that she is so unhappy, and that he is the only one she can talk to. I asked her not to go, but she went anyway. Her unhappiness is from all of my faults and mistakes from the time her mom died 6 years ago. She says she told me repeatedly she was unhappy during that time but that I didn’t listen. Now she won’t let go of the hurt, and can’t talk to any of her other friends except him. If our marriage wasn’t a sacrament, I’d be filing for divorce now. She is not interested in reconciling. She is actually thinking through the consequences of divorce. I told her to consider not just the immediate consequences of divorce, but also how all of us, including the kids, would be 5 years from now.
 
tucdoc said:
Well, she went out to see her “friend” tonight, the “friend” she told that she was unhappy with her marriage. She says that she is so unhappy, and that he is the only one she can talk to. I asked her not to go, but she went anyway. Her unhappiness is from all of my faults and mistakes from the time her mom died 6 years ago. She says she told me repeatedly she was unhappy during that time but that I didn’t listen. Now she won’t let go of the hurt, and can’t talk to any of her other friends except him. If our marriage wasn’t a sacrament, I’d be filing for divorce now. She is not interested in reconciling. She is actually thinking through the consequences of divorce. I told her to consider not just the immediate consequences of divorce, but also how all of us, including the kids, would be 5 years from now.
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Oh, Tucdoc, I’m so deeply sorry for this. I’m sure you’ve made mistakes; all married men and women do. Your wife pegging you as the sole source of her unhappiness is so manipulative and unfair…it’s mind blowing, really. I hope you realize she’s only telling you this to justify her own atrocious behavior. She may have every right to be angry, but you don’t deserve this disrespect.

You and your entire family are in my prayers. God Bless.
 
tucdoc said:
Well, she went out to see her “friend” tonight, the “friend” she told that she was unhappy with her marriage. She says that she is so unhappy, and that he is the only one she can talk to. I asked her not to go, but she went anyway. Her unhappiness is from all of my faults and mistakes from the time her mom died 6 years ago. She says she told me repeatedly she was unhappy during that time but that I didn’t listen. Now she won’t let go of the hurt, and can’t talk to any of her other friends except him. If our marriage wasn’t a sacrament, I’d be filing for divorce now. She is not interested in reconciling. She is actually thinking through the consequences of divorce. I told her to consider not just the immediate consequences of divorce, but also how all of us, including the kids, would be 5 years from now.
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Tucdoc,
I have been following all of your posts and everyone’s responses…

The fact that she is so open about where she is going and who she is with… Wow, isn’t that nice of her.

It is my opinion that your wife is using your mistakes and faults from the past as an excuse to justify her own behavior right now. To say that her “friend” is the only one she can talk to is nothing short of an outright lie. She can talk to you, she can talk to you with the help of a therapist, or counselor, but she is choosing not to. You have admitted your past mistakes and tried to change and yet she still chooses to shut you out and continue her “friendship.”

She is thinking through the consequences of a divorce? Unfortunately, it seems as if she will only be thinking how it will affect HER, not anyone else. Though she may not have gotten what she wanted from you emotionally, she seemed to enjoy the lifestyle you offered her. Is she willing to give this up? Perhaps. But for some it is hard to do. If she “chooses” you, you might want to throw out there that you two will positively need to go to couples therapy. It will not be enough for either of you if she just chooses to stay, but is not willing to commit to any change.

May God bless you and guide you both. Know that you are in many people’s prayers.
 
My wife has seriously thought of divorce and now doesn’t like it. She admitted that she can’t make a budget and is afraid (rightfully so) that I won’t help her financially over and above what is ordered by the court. She really became distraught with the thought of me taking half the furniture, half the kitchen items and the piano (since I’m the one who plays). The realities of divorce are unappealing to her. Yet, she still says she want to see the Yankees in New York play. One option would be for me to take her myself. But if she insists on going with her “friend”… I would rather not play the divorce card. But I told her she needs to start respecting boundaries in our relationship and I am insisting we see a marriage counselor. I told her we both need to change and it is going to take work, and that a professional can help us. She sounded like she would rather stay unhappy to maintain her lifestyle. I told her that is not a good option and that it’s not good for her to stay this way. She said it would be painful to her if she had to recount all of the times that I hurt or disappointed her to another person. I said that at least that way she can get help in coming to terms with those episodes.
 
tucdoc said:
My wife has seriously thought of divorce and now doesn’t like it. She admitted that she can’t make a budget and is afraid (rightfully so) that I won’t help her financially over and above what is ordered by the court. She really became distraught with the thought of me taking half the furniture, half the kitchen items and the piano (since I’m the one who plays). The realities of divorce are unappealing to her. Yet, she still says she want to see the Yankees in New York play. One option would be for me to take her myself. But if she insists on going with her “friend”… I would rather not play the divorce card. But I told her she needs to start respecting boundaries in our relationship and I am insisting we see a marriage counselor. I told her we both need to change and it is going to take work, and that a professional can help us. She sounded like she would rather stay unhappy to maintain her lifestyle. I told her that is not a good option and that it’s not good for her to stay this way. She said it would be painful to her if she had to recount all of the times that I hurt or disappointed her to another person. I said that at least that way she can get help in coming to terms with those episodes.
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You know, some married people do have friends of the opposite sex. My husband and I do.

These are our rules: We never communicate with our opposite-gender friends secretly…if there is e-mail or phone contact, we mention it later to the spouse. We never meet opposite sex friends alone in public without inviting respective spouses to be there. (If there is a spouse; some of these friends of mine are priests.) We never meet opposite sex friends alone in private. We only choose opposite-sex friends that our spouse is comfortable with.

I have a friend from high school that I got into contact with. His wife didn’t like it, he let me know, and we don’t have contact any more. The marriage always has to come first. Besides, sometimes the spouse has a lot better radar for inappropriate feelings than the involved parties do! I feel quite sure, though, that he has female friends that she does feel comfortable with, even though he may have none that he ever meets without his wife present, save the ones he works with, of course. That is a reasonable arrangement.

The arrangement allowing opposite-sex friends requires a good faith effort to guard fidelity, too. Fidelity doesn’t "just happen. I have another male friend that I think may be interested in me in a way that isn’t quite proper. We are still friends, but I never communicate with him without cc:ing his wife on the e-mail, and I don’t ever get together with him when his wife isn’t going to be there.

If I got a friend for whom I’d break these rules, it would have to be over with that friend.

Maybe you can show your wife this note, and work something out.
 
tucdoc said:
My wife has seriously thought of divorce and now doesn’t like it. She admitted that she can’t make a budget and is afraid (rightfully so) that I won’t help her financially over and above what is ordered by the court. She really became distraught with the thought of me taking half the furniture, half the kitchen items and the piano (since I’m the one who plays). The realities of divorce are unappealing to her.
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OH REALLY!! Well isn’t that upright of her. Assuming you are even half honest here this may be the most unspeakably selfish human being I have ever heard of.
tucdoc said:
Yet, she still says she want to see the Yankees in New York play. One option would be for me to take her myself. But if she insists on going with her “friend”… I would rather not play the divorce card. But I told her she needs to start respecting boundaries in our relationship and I am insisting we see a marriage counselor. I told her we both need to change and it is going to take work, and that a professional can help us. She sounded like she would rather stay unhappy to maintain her lifestyle. I told her that is not a good option and that it’s not good for her to stay this way. She said it would be painful to her if she had to recount all of the times that I hurt or disappointed her to another person. I said that at least that way she can get help in coming to terms with those episodes >>>
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Look man, this woman is a self worshiping self obsessed, sniveling infant without the slightest regard for God, her marriage or her children. Some will no doubt disagree, but at this point if this were my wife, I would not divorce her, but I would put her out of my house until she is ready to repent and act like like a responsible adult.

This is not about baseball or the Yankees at all and you participating in HER childish bunk is the last thing she needs. She needs a foot on her behind out the door. She’s worried about money and kitchen items???:mad::mad::mad: Unreal. Out… goodbye… I’ll be in tearful prayer beseeching the holy risen Christ for your broken return, but until then let your “friend” take care of you. Everything she says you did to her may be true but this other lady is correct. She using it as an excuse to use YOUR money to finance HER sin.

I can’t tell you what to do, but I just can’t wait to hear the sanctified reasoning of anybody telling you that tolerating this is somehow Christian duty.
 
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