Wife has given up

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She was somewhat disappointed with the priest. He told her “all men are the same”. I’m not sure if she took this with regards to sex or more generally with the marriage relationship. Either way, she has high expectations, which will be frustrated by reality. I hope the appt. with the counselor reinforces the point that she expects too much. I will continue to disappoint her if she does not manage her expectations. I told her that I will accept whatever decision she makes regarding our relationship as long as she makes the decision rationally and not purely emotionally.
 
So what’s that supposed to mean. Dang, I hate it when you get to talking to a lazy priest. That’s the lamest answer I’ve ever heard.

NOT ALL MEN ARE THE SAME… DUH!!!
 
tucdoc said:
She was somewhat disappointed with the priest. He told her “all men are the same”. I’m not sure if she took this with regards to sex or more generally with the marriage relationship. Either way, she has high expectations, which will be frustrated by reality. I hope the appt. with the counselor reinforces the point that she expects too much. I will continue to disappoint her if she does not manage her expectations. I told her that I will accept whatever decision she makes regarding our relationship as long as she makes the decision rationally and not purely emotionally.
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What “high expectations” does she have exactly? That her husband show her affection? That her husband support her emotionally? It doesn’t sound to me like her expectations from you to continue the relationship are all that ridiculous. She is spending time with other men because her very reasonable expectations for a marriage are not being met? And you expect her to not be emotional about this issue? She’s a human being talking about her marriage. Of course it’s going to be made emotionally.
 
She is not allowing me to even address her emotional needs, and now she say it’s too late. She is unable to forgive, despite my sincere attempts to reconcile. She say she will be meeting with a lawyer in the next few days. I asked her to please have a few sessions with the therapist before meeting with a lawyer.
 
tucdoc said:
She is not allowing me to even address her emotional needs, and now she say it’s too late. She is unable to forgive, despite my sincere attempts to reconcile. She say she will be meeting with a lawyer in the next few days. I asked her to please have a few sessions with the therapist before meeting with a lawyer.
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She’s not UNABLE… She’s not WILLING… Lack of willingness tends to be a mode of self protection. Like if she forgives and forgets (something I suspect she’s done, unnoticed in the past??? Well, not the forget part.) then she opens herself up for further hurt. Her logic, I suspect, is that she’s taken what she can. Past Performance has a tendancy to Predict future Performance…

Most realize that opening one’s self to another is a risk. A risk USUALLY worth taking.

I really hope, should you head down the divorce path, that you both manage to keep your children in your sight line. Don’t go blind with fury… If she’s really bent on it… maybe you can go for a seperation first??? Drag out the time to see if she can come to a new point of reasoning…
 
She does feel like she is protecting herself by seperating herself emotionally from me. She describes this as a wall. But I tell her she is also starving herself emotionally. Plus it is making it more difficult for her to truly care for the kids. I do worry about their impression of their emotionally labile mom who watches several baseball games daily and no longer socializes as she once did.

If my wife doesn’t want to take a chance with me again, then we might as well end the marriage.
 
I have a feeling your wife is just ferouciously depressed. There can be so many contributing factors to this it’s unreal.

You may feel she’s emotionally starving herself… but perhaps she’s been starved a long time. A child of Africa… perhaps she just has little hope. In fact, if you sit a literally starving person down to a full meal. They can’t handle it. They could actually die from it. If she’s getting bombarded with new found love from you, she may just be emotionally overwhelmed. She may not even identify the love as love. But just an emotion that hurts. She’s pushing her food of plate away. It’s making her sick.

But sitting in front of the TV all day is self medication. She’s doing something that feels good. I think she needs to fix herself before she can get on to fixing the marriage. She sounds a bit broken.

Society today has a habit of ignoring this sort of thing, and then acting horrified when the end results manifest.

Take AN EXTREME case. I can’t remember her name. But remember the woman that drown her 4 or 5 children. Her family reflects back and reports things that clearly show she was in a state of PPD. They ignored it. She should just snap out of it… right? And then… OMG! Who can do that to their babies. As a sane person, I can not imagine. Yes, she drown them. And NO ONE STOPPED HER!

Your wife, based solely on what I read of you here… seems to me to be drowning her marriage. This did not happen overnight. You’re just freaked 'cause the end result is manifesting. This is all happening quickly for you. I kind of doubt this is a current problem for her. It’s been going on for years, ignored. The thing is, she’s likely to end up divorced, with little further help. Instead of Prison where someone will at least show that mother what she did. She was not an evil woman. Last I read, she’s mortified by her actions.

She was drowning, and no one even tossed her a life jacket. They just pulled her dead body in…
 
I told her months ago that she was depressed and that she needed to get help. She was depressed after her brother and mother died 5 & 6 years ago, but she refused to go to counseling then. She absolutely refused to take meds. I could have been more attentive to her needs, or she could have been forthright about hurting. Either way, that is in the past. If you are saying it is too late, then you sound just like my wife. If forgiveness is impossible, then so is the marriage.
 
tucdoc said:
I told her months ago that she was depressed and that she needed to get help. She was depressed after her brother and mother died 5 & 6 years ago, but she refused to go to counseling then. She absolutely refused to take meds. I could have been more attentive to her needs, or she could have been forthright about hurting. Either way, that is in the past. If you are saying it is too late, then you sound just like my wife. If forgiveness is impossible, then so is the marriage.
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You TOLD her? Like you DX’d her? Perhaps I should assume that you write like me. Fairly blunt. Which can sometimes be interpreted as really unfeeling.

Telling a person they are depressed can seem like an attack. I know this because I went through about a 5 year bout of depression. Quite honestly, it was bad enough that I felt awful. It was extra awful to realize I wasn’t even remotely good at hiding it. And since I wasn’t really in the frame of mind where logic was used well… Yes, if you said to me, you’re depressed, it felt like a character judgement. For me it was related to vitamin D deficiency and a stressed thyroid. I hyper responded to A LOT. Funny = hysterical. Sad = gloom and Doom. Annoying = near violent anger. It really took me down. And “meds” did nothing for me AT ALL. Except offer me some brilliant side effects. I don’t know if meds will make you get over the loss of a loved one. Perhaps if you fall into a deep dark whole. But I lost one of my best friends to the War in Iraq just over 6 years ago, and I’m only recently able to talk about him without falling into a puddle. Not sure how much worse that would be if it were my sister. In fact, it has taken my faith in God and understanding that my dear friend is with God… Heaven. That it’s really selfish of me to wish him back her to the land of imperfection.

It may be the past… However, the past absolutely effects the future. You don’t just quit loving and missing a person. She does need counceling. She just doesn’t want to believe that she’s not strong enough to endure it. I’m not really sure how to get her to do it.

Tuc, I have NO IDEA if it’s too late. But I would caution you not to function in absolutes. Your wife is NOT Christ. Instant forgiveness is not easy for most humans. IF she’s ever going to get over this, she’s going to need time. I’m just suggesting that perhaps you’re suggesting she get over all of this at mock speed in comparison to how long it perhaps took you to get there. Whether YOU realized you were on your way to this point or not.

And in the end, I may be totally off base. Again, just basing my OPINION on what I’m reading…
 
I agree - it will take a long time. I think it will be tough for you (it would kill me - I like the more instant solution!), but hold on.

Meds helped me with my depression. I think MOST depressed people disagree that they’re depressed, but it was pretty obvious to me. Even now, I watch out for small signs.

One thing I did find out which helped me immensely was that I was VERY deficient in B12 and D. Supplements (prescriptions) has cleared my mind up more than anything else. Testing might be something to suggest… worst case, her getting tested might open her up to hearing something more from her doctor.
 
Good news, she saw a therapist yesterday that she liked and she plans on going back for more sessions. She even mentioned the possibility of a session of marriage counseling with her therapist. Bad news, she went out tonight to have dinner with the “friend” she told she wasn’t happy with our marriage. I told her that I know she is going through a tough time, and that she has a conscience and morals. I recognized I can’t keep her from doing what she wants to do.

I don’t know how long I can stay on this emotional roller coaster. If I just filed for divorce at least this part would end. I want to give her time to go through some more therapy sessions, and I would like to have a least one marriage counseling session. It’s just that she makes things so difficult by insisting on continuing contact with her “friends”.
 
tucdoc said:
Good news, she saw a therapist yesterday that she liked and she plans on going back for more sessions. She even mentioned the possibility of a session of marriage counseling with her therapist. Bad news, she went out tonight to have dinner with the “friend” she told she wasn’t happy with our marriage. I told her that I know she is going through a tough time, and that she has a conscience and morals. I recognized I can’t keep her from doing what she wants to do.

I don’t know how long I can stay on this emotional roller coaster. If I just filed for divorce at least this part would end. I want to give her time to go through some more therapy sessions, and I would like to have a least one marriage counseling session. It’s just that she makes things so difficult by insisting on continuing contact with her “friends”.
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YAY! Our prayers are really working! Look what has been accomplished in one month’s time!

Be persistent! Things have started to turn. Baby steps.

God bless!
 
tucdoc said:
She even mentioned the possibility of a session of marriage counseling with her therapist.
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Please talk to your therapist about this… I know a handful of people that have gone to the therapist that the one person has been seeing for a while… and I’ve NEVER heard it turn out good. The therapist has to be BOTH of yours, not one of yours.

I Do know people that go for marriage counceling… and then occassionally schedule a private session later… But the therapist is on board with the TEAM… not the individual…

Just a suggestion…

Ask around… Maybe I’m out in left field…
 
faithfully said:
Please talk to your therapist about this… I know a handful of people that have gone to the therapist that the one person has been seeing for a while… and I’ve NEVER heard it turn out good. The therapist has to be BOTH of yours, not one of yours.

I Do know people that go for marriage counceling… and then occassionally schedule a private session later… But the therapist is on board with the TEAM… not the individual…

Just a suggestion…

Ask around… Maybe I’m out in left field…
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agreed. You either need a new marriage counselor neither of you has seen or you need to see this therapist before any joint sessions. This therapist has only heard one side of the story so far and is hardly in the position to provide neutral guidance to a couple. EDIT: if it is possible to see this therapist anonymously beforehand to make sure he doesn’t hear your issues through the filter of your wife’s, that would be even better.
 
Scoobyshme said:
Every tear we shed, every pain we feel, can be offered up to heaven and put in our treasury waiting for us when we get there. It can also be very powerful as intercession, begging graces from Our Lord to convert souls (like your wife’s!).

Prayer, penance, sacrifice. These are the things that will soften her hardened heart. Pray the rosary. Go to Mass during the week if you can. Fast a meal a day or two, or for a whole day or two. Get others to pray and fast and offer sacrifice with you. Consecrate yourself to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and ask her intercession. Then, leave the rest to God.
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Thank you. I sometimes wonder where prayer enters into these marriages. Pick up the rosary and ask Our Lady to strengthen your marriage. You’ll be amazed at the results. Ask your wife to join you in the rosary sometime, if she scoffs, tell her how you hate seeing the two of you drift apart. Ask her what she would like you to do… However, keep turning to prayer. Spend time before the Blessed Sacrament, become a better man, a better husband and father. God willing everything will fall into place.
 
Last night my wife said she didn’t know why she is here. Our issues may be due to her having an existential crisis. I told her I can’t answer that question for her, only she can. This morning I asked if she believed that life is a journey, and she does. So, I advised her to focus on the goal of that journey (be it Heaven, enlightenment, or being a better person), and then make a decision about us. She has lost confidence in the Catholic Church, as I don’t believe she got the answers she was looking for when she talked to our priest. She is seeing her own therapist today, but doesn’t want to see a marriage counselor. She also said she has an appointment with an attorney later this week.

I’ve expressed my viewpoint to her numerous times: either lets do the tough job of preserving our marriage, or move forward on divorce. She sees divorce as a way out of her unhappiness with me, but she is not acknowledging all the difficult (financial) tasks that she will need to be responsible for in the future. She also is not thinking of the kids. She was upset that I told her that we would have to seperately move on with our lives if we divorced. Does she still think I will be around to take care of her if we divorce? She can be so naive.
 
tucdoc said:
She was upset that I told her that we would have to seperately move on with our lives if we divorced. Does she still think I will be around to take care of her if we divorce? She can be so naive.
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A sacrament is not so fragile. Even if it becomes necessary for sanity/etc to be apart, if your marriage is a sacrament (as determined by your wedding day, not today), she will always be a part of your life. Her well-being would always be your concern, regardless of what happens per civil law.
 
tucdoc said:
Does she still think I will be around to take care of her if we divorce? She can be so naive.
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She hasn’t worked outside of the home your entire marriage right? You’re going to end up paying alimony until she re-marries, and child support if she gets the kids. Not sure how that works out with shared custody. It won’t matter “where” you are. Or do you mean emotionally? Thought she agreed that’s never happened anyway???

Be careful with your words. They will be used against you in a court room.
 
It seems to me she is flip-flopping. She has changed her mind every time you post. I would stick to showing her how much you love her and just let her mull things over. I think you have posted multiple times that she “has an appointment with her lawyer later this week”. Has she actually done so? Or is she just telling you this to see how you respond? It seems to me like she doesn’t really want to leave. Give her time, don’t make her feel like she has to make a hasty decision, and maybe she’ll realize this isn’t the best idea.
 
She cancelled her appt. with the lawyer this week. She’s afraid of having to split all of our possessions. Yet, she doesn’t want to talk to explain her “friends” to a marriage counselor. She has seen her therapist twice, but she hasn’t told her about these “friends”. I’ve explained to her that as much as I have hurt her in the past, these “friendships” are hurting me now and are the main reason I’m seeing my own therapist.

Her therapist pointed out to her how different we are. My wife considers herself more intuitive and “spiritual”. We do share an interest in music and have a common ethnic background; otherwise, we are very different. I keep pushing marriage counseling to develop skills to help overcome these differences to preserve the marriage. I’ve told her as painful as marriage counseling can be, divorce is much more painful in the long run.

She continues to push me away so that she won’t get hurt again. I’ve explained that getting hurt happens in a marriage, and ending the marriage won’t necessarily get rid of the hurt.
 
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