Wife has given up

[nonanon]

She doesn’t want to be with me anymore. I make her feel uncomfortable. I don’t know if it’s because of the things that happened before I moved out, or because she is not getting her way in the divorce (cutting back my parenting time, asking for more alimony and a loan to buy me out of the house and to buy herself a car). I’ve asked her repeatedly since moving out to please reconsider reconciling, but she won’t go to counseling. I can’t live like I did last year. It’s not what she did (the baseball trips and dinners), I can forgive her for that. It’s the constant contempt and resentment that I can’t live with, which the kids can feel and affects how they see me.

I’m with you, Tuc. What she’s been doing is severe emotional abuse, and I think you’ve done everything you can to save the marriage. As much as we all believe in the sanctity of marriage, I don’t think God asks any of us to incessantly suffer the abuse you and your kids endured over the last year.

For what it’s worth (and I’m not a therapist), I think your wife’s abusiveness is coming from distorted thinking, possibly caused or contributed to by a personality disorder or other psychological problems going back even to childhood. Not trying to label her, or reduce culpability, or say that you should continue living with her, but for her to participate in a sacramental marriage, I think she needs the therapy you’ve been encouraging her to get for a long time. And, because I’m living through a similar situation myself, sometimes I think in this “cognitively distorted” state, it takes a period of separation for a person to realize she needs to take that step. I pray that it works that way for you, or if that’s not in God’s plan, that healing and new growth come quickly.

But in any event, it may help to consider that her distorted thinking and inability to understand how others see her behavior mean that there may not be as much malice in her actions as it sometimes appears. I think this view makes it easier to be compassionate and forgiving while not sacrificing yourself. We Christians are called to answer God’s call to forgive, and it’s essential to healing everyone.

 

[kbachler]

Kbachler, my wife has said repeatedly that she does not want to be with me, and the she would be happier without me. She is only considering staying together for the kids, and once they are gone, would want to leave the marriage. That’s why I said no. Marriage is not a prison term, looking forward to the day that it is over. Marriage is for life, and life starts with each new day and ends when we die. I’ve already walked on egg-shells and jumped through hoops for her. Yes, I still love her, but if she has a laundry lists of requirements she expects from me, then how can I say that she also loves me?

I’m going to be blunt. What happened to forgiveness? How Christian is it to hold resentment for years? Bearing grudges makes you a prisoner of the past, unable to enjoy the present and look forward to the future. You allow the one who offended you once to continue offending you over and over again. Admittedly, it’s not easy, but ultimately, forgiveness helps the forgiver more than the forgiven.

But Tuc, it’s also clear from your words that you haven’t FORGIVEN HER. There is resentment in your words above. Do you think she does not see that? Do you think she has not heard that? You’re asking her to be the bigger person than you, and thanks to your counseling, and advice here, you may be the one with the larger awareness. Think about it Tuc, does your expectation of forgiveness from her make sense under that circumstance?

Matthew 17:21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

Within the context of the day, 70 is a number of holy (7) power (10). Numbers had meaning. Jesus is really saying forgive an INFINITE number of times.

Tuc, if we are to forgive our enemies 70 time 7, how often should we forgive the ones we love?

Let the forgiveness start with YOU, not with her. Let her learn from your example.

 

[faithfully]

I’m with you, Tuc. What she’s been doing is severe emotional abuse, and I think you’ve done everything you can to save the marriage. As much as we all believe in the sanctity of marriage, I don’t think God asks any of us to incessantly suffer the abuse you and your kids endured over the last year.

For what it’s worth (and I’m not a therapist), I think your wife’s abusiveness is coming from distorted thinking, possibly caused or contributed to by a personality disorder or other psychological problems going back even to childhood. Not trying to label her, or reduce culpability, or say that you should continue living with her, but for her to participate in a sacramental marriage, I think she needs the therapy you’ve been encouraging her to get for a long time. And, because I’m living through a similar situation myself, sometimes I think in this “cognitively distorted” state, it takes a period of separation for a person to realize she needs to take that step. I pray that it works that way for you, or if that’s not in God’s plan, that healing and new growth come quickly.

But in any event, it may help to consider that her distorted thinking and inability to understand how others see her behavior mean that there may not be as much malice in her actions as it sometimes appears. I think this view makes it easier to be compassionate and forgiving while not sacrificing yourself. We Christians are called to answer God’s call to forgive, and it’s essential to healing everyone.

Although I suspect his wife is depressed, and not coping well. It is completely inappropriate to dx her to any degree with psychological problems… ESPECIALLY when you’re not a therapist.

I would IMAGINE that a person who has TRUE phych issues would be deemed an unfit mother. Tuc, a DOCTOR, surely would not be figuring out shared custody with a crazy woman. He’d be trying to take full custody, and proving her mental status and NOT complaining about how she much $$ she wants or that she wants to keep the house.

I have a feeling, that sadly this whole marriage has been rendered a tit for tat situation. He hurt her emotionally, rather than talking to him about it, she became angry and decided to protect herself with a grudge. That sadly was the recipe for destruction. They have been doing this back and forth for years. She is so angry she no longer sees a man she ever loved. Tuc, was completely unaware of her issues until last year. (I imagine if she had a psych problem, it did not develop over the last year, and SURELY a doctor would recognize something?) He was totally shocked that anything he did was bad enough to ask for a divorce. And perhaps rightfully suprised. If a person just holds it in until they burst with crazy talk… I’m sure it was shocking and suprising.

Tuc, I know a couple like (actually worse) you describe. The husband did a few more things worse for the marriage. The wife… “stayed for the kids”. The kids managed to never grow up knowing their mother was cheated on repeatedly. They grew up having appropriate expectations of a father/husband. But when graduation hit for the youngest… the mother made it pretty clear she was D-O-N-E… she no longer held back with her anger towards him… I don’t know how… but they are actually STILL together. It’s not a perfect marriage. But they have managed.

I guess I read your sitatuion. I know it’s hard… But I compare… and perhaps not fairly so. You marriage issues are a thorn in a person’s foot. A thorn that could be removed if people thought to do so… I’ve just witnessed marriages severed at the legs… and yet, still, SOMEHOW they survive. They are never the perfect body they once were. But they “choose life” so to speak… And yes, often they suffer the concequences of having no legs. They except the legs are gone…gone…gone… But it still bites!

It’s all about choices… Setting egos aside. Setting aside pain. I know you would council a cancer patient to work through all the trauma to get better. But I know you have to believe that he/she CAN get better. I’m guessing you’ve decided your marriage cancer is incurable. So you’re just going to pump the morphene until it’s dead…

If you’re done… I’d just move on with your couciling. Quit trying to fix her. She will have to figure out her issues on her own. Let it go… be done…

My prayers are with you all.

 

[EasterJoy]

But Tuc, it’s also clear from your words that you haven’t FORGIVEN HER. There is resentment in your words above. Do you think she does not see that? Do you think she has not heard that? You’re asking her to be the bigger person than you, and thanks to your counseling, and advice here, you may be the one with the larger awareness. Think about it Tuc, does your expectation of forgiveness from her make sense under that circumstance?

Matthew 17:21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

Within the context of the day, 70 is a number of holy (7) power (10). Numbers had meaning. Jesus is really saying forgive an INFINITE number of times.

Tuc, if we are to forgive our enemies 70 time 7, how often should we forgive the ones we love?

Let the forgiveness start with YOU, not with her. Let her learn from your example.

I can’t agree. Yes, we have to be willing to forgive when the offender does not want to reconcile. We have to let go of resentment, hope that God will turn their hearts, and be willing to accept them back when they repent without holding the offense over their heads. Having said that, though, forgiveness is not the same as pretending there is no offense…and the offense tucdoc has suffered is not in the past, but is on-going. It is in his wife’s current attitude towards him and their marriage, which are contempt and rejection. The Lord never pretended that those who were sinning against him weren’t doing him harm. He let them know.

Remember, too, that while the Lord commanded unending forgiveness to the brother who repents, he did not require endless chances for the brother who will not: “If your brother sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector*." Matt. 18:15-17

Tucdoc has agreed to a civil divorce in order to divide their assets justly and have some chance of living in peace. He has not repudiated his marriage or his desire to love and honor his wife. He’s simply requiring her to treat him justly and with respect. Not only is that OK, but she didn’t give him much choice in the matter. Living in the same house with her in peace and mutual love and respect was not an option. He would have jumped at that if it had been. I think he still would.

 

[nonanon]

Our priest read this prayer in his sermon today. His theme was that God often brings great things to us through the crosses we are asked to bear. Struck me that it fit this thread, so I’ll share. Maybe you’ve seen it before, but it was new to me:

Prayer
by An Unknown Confederate Soldier

I asked God for strength, that I might achieve, I was
made weak, that I might humbly obey.

I asked for health, that I might do greater things, I was given infirmity, that I might do better things.

I asked for riches, that I might be happy, I was given poverty,
that I might be wise.

I asked for power, that I might have the praise of men, I was given weakness, that I might feel the need of God.

I asked for all things, that I might enjoy life, I was given life,
that I might enjoy all things.

I got nothing that I asked for, but everything I had hoped for.

Prayers for all of us struggling with our crosses.

 

[tucdoc]

EasterJoy, thank you for following this thread for so long, and for so succinctly and accurately explaining my perspective. Yes, I know that I’ve been sexually selfish and overly concerned about money. Yes, I realize that, despite her comfortable lifestyle, my wife did not feel that I loved and cared for her. We both had an entitlement mentality, and sadly, the kids to some degree have incoporated this as well. It may be too late for the marriage, but maybe this is the only way the kids can learn that they have to earn their way and not expect anything worthwhile in life to be handed to them.

Last night I had to go to the house to pick up my daughters back pack. She had left it there on purpose, hoping to be able to stay if she went to get it. I went there on my own and spoke to my wife, mostly about my son’s struggle with his classwork. However, she did mention how difficult it was going to be to sell the house, particularly in this market. I emphasized that the decision to sell the house is hers alone. She wanted me to move back, but I replied I couldn’t go back to the way things were last year with the resentment and contempt. She remebered me saying that I would not be in a loveless marriage, and I still stand by that. Marriage is hard enough, and if their is no love and no ability to forgive, then it will fail. I wanted her to acknowledge that we’ve both made mistakes, and I said I can forgive her for what she’s done, but she has yet to admit to any wrongdoing. I know I will forgive her, since I have to heal and go on with my life.

 

[mamaslo]

this sounds like one of those moments when you feel a little bit normal when you have been in a pressure cooker for so long…it is nice to hear some peace in your words.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes, I know that I’ve been sexually selfish and overly concerned about money. Yes, I realize that, despite her comfortable lifestyle, my wife did not feel that I loved and cared for her. We both had an entitlement mentality, and sadly, the kids to some degree have incoporated this as well. It may be too late for the marriage, but maybe this is the only way the kids can learn that they have to earn their way and not expect anything worthwhile in life to be handed to them.

I think you are being a little hard on you and on your wife. I don’t think you were selfish in the sense that you knew your attitudes upset her and you ignored it. I believe that she suffered very much because of your actions and vice versa, but I think what killed your chances was that you did not have lines of communication established by which you could directly and immediately give feedback. In fact, I will bet that you two did not have such direct connection to your own feelings that you knew what was coming to a head in the bottoms of your own hearts. How can you talk about what you’re not aware of? How can you tell something to someone when you assume it is so obvious that it seems like asking them if they realized that they had just set your hair on fire?

I am at a great distance, but I am guessing that your is a story with a great deal of tragedy in it. It is good to teach your children to be appreciative, but it is even more important to learn with them and to help them to practice healthy communication and healthy self-awareness. The willingness to confine one’s own expectations within the boundaries of the whole rest of reality falls into place only on that foundation. I’ve learned that late in life, and have been through a little of what you have, only on a less catastrophic scale.

 

[90Domer]

Tuc,

A part of your last post concerned me. You expressed that your daughter left her backpack on purpose. Did she tell you she left it on purpose? If so, what was your reaction to this?

I honestly think that any further contact with your wife should be, naturally, civil and cordial. I think she knows where you stand on the marriage. If she were to ask you to move back, how about just saying something to the effect, “Thank you. I will take that under consideration.”. Then, just leave it at that. I think further responses just fuels her anger and cause you anger and frustration. Why not keep things neutral?

That being said, it’s sad to see that your marriage has come down to a matter of dollars and cents. I cannot imagine the loss you feel. Unfortunately, the entitlement attitude was built up over years, and it will likely take a goodly amount of time to change. At this point, I don’t think your wife is capable of changing on her own…meaning, without professional or spiritual guidance. I think if you want to move on, that’s a reasonable option. However, your words and actions then have to demonstrate that you’ve found closure on this issue.

The bigger concern is your kids. They are obviously being affected, and you are learning that in not-so-subtle ways. Take care of yourself, but then take care of them by being the bigger person and keeping conversations between you and your wife to a minimum. If you need to vent, vent here or to your therapist or to a journal. You will not convince your wife of anything if she doesn’t respect you. That needs to be achieved before you can consider having a loving marriage.

As always, prayers.

 

[tucdoc]

The disrespect my wife demonstrates towards me has rubbed off on the kids. They are very disrespectful & talk back all the time. When I ask my son what assignment he is doing, he will say things like “busy right now”. I had a very difficult time with him tonight. He is missing several assignments, and I went to the house to help him with a few of them. He said he didn’t want me there and didn’t want my help. He is already getting an F in one of his classes because of missing assignments. He doesn’t seem to care. It is so frustrating. My wife had the insight to realize that he is a reflection of how she brought him up. She even suggested staying together for his sake. I’ve told her before that we should stay together for our sake, because we want to be together, not from guilt because of our children.

 

[TexasCatholic99]

TucDoc, my brother. Good to hear that you have started the process of healing.

Kids? Yep they are a handful.

Best advice I ever got was this: “If you don’t keep your kids busy, they will keep you busy” and not in a good way.

As parents we have got to stay involved whether we/they like it or not. You don’t have to say anything, just be there for them. Even if you have to wait in the car outside the house. Send him a text and let him know that you are outside if you need him. You got to give that kind of effort. Trust me, he will see it, no matter how he is behaving right now. I absolutely think you are doing the right thing by helping/offering to help. He is just a mad kid at this point. I read someone say that in a few years he will look back and realize that he was wrong about the way he treated you. My son did a few months ago, it shocked me (he is 22 yrs old now). He told me, “Dad I realize now how immature and selfish I was when I was younger, you were right and now I am sort of paying for it. But I am starting to learn and not make the same mistakes”. WOW!

I am going to tell you what I did with my wife. Our situations are very similar.
I gave her a book (you might want to mail it to her, not sure I would put a note in it or not, WHAT DO YOU THINK LADIES? Note or not?), “It’s Your Time”, by Joel Osteen. I told her “this book is not for us but that it is for you”, and I meant that. “Please try and read atleast one page out of this book for the next 30 days and if you don’t like it then stop reading it”.
When I went to buy this book at Lakewood I was doing it for her (by the way, I am Catholic). when I got to the register the young lady said that this book was a buy one get one free. Wow, I guess someone was telling me that I needed to read it to, so I am and it is really good, very uplifting and positive. I really don’t know if she is reading it but something positive is happening to her attitude. Its not a miracle or a fix all, its just a start.

Well brother, I am still praying for you and your family.

God Bless,

TC99

 

[qui_est_ce]

The disrespect my wife demonstrates towards me has rubbed off on the kids. They are very disrespectful & talk back all the time. When I ask my son what assignment he is doing, he will say things like “busy right now”. I had a very difficult time with him tonight. He is missing several assignments, and I went to the house to help him with a few of them. He said he didn’t want me there and didn’t want my help. He is already getting an F in one of his classes because of missing assignments. He doesn’t seem to care. It is so frustrating. My wife had the insight to realize that he is a reflection of how she brought him up. She even suggested staying together for his sake. I’ve told her before that we should stay together for our sake, because we want to be together, not from guilt because of our children.

Teenagers.

 

[EasterJoy]

The disrespect my wife demonstrates towards me has rubbed off on the kids. They are very disrespectful & talk back all the time. When I ask my son what assignment he is doing, he will say things like “busy right now”. I had a very difficult time with him tonight. He is missing several assignments, and I went to the house to help him with a few of them. He said he didn’t want me there and didn’t want my help. He is already getting an F in one of his classes because of missing assignments. He doesn’t seem to care. It is so frustrating. My wife had the insight to realize that he is a reflection of how she brought him up. She even suggested staying together for his sake. I’ve told her before that we should stay together for our sake, because we want to be together, not from guilt because of our children.

It would be excellent if you and your wife could be married instead of divorced. It would not be a great idea to carry on your divorce in the same house until your kids go off to college.

If your wife wants to be married, great! I feel certain that you realize that you are morally bound to assume you have a valid marriage until proven otherwise, and that you are willing to do the “better or worse” for as long as living in peace and mutual care under the same roof seems possible. If she is intent on being and behaving divorced, though, then it is better that you each have your own home to retire to, so you can each have some peace and you can salvage some sort of civilized relationship. Don’t assume you can’t be on the same page, though. Communicate until you know which page each of you are on, then proceed accordingly. If she is not sure, then ask her to explore with you further into where you are and why. But yes, she has to be realistic, and decide whether she wants to have her cake or eat it.

Keep in mind that the behaviors you are seeing in your son are also a reflection not just of being under stress, but of becoming an adult. Not everything you and your family will go through in the coming years can be traced back to your divorce. There is a reason that bookstores have their shelves packed with books that attempt to explain teens. Our kids have always been very respectful, we’re not going through a divorce, we’re not even at odds, and yet it’s like someone poured disrespect juice into their water.

Many of your family issues are ones you would be going through if you still lived in your home; they will just be a bit more complicated to handle. This is another reason why you and your wife have no choice but to establish lines of communication. You also need to defend each other’s place of respect in front of your kids. Mutually agree that although you may have issues as husband and wife, you will let no one show disrespect to the mother and father of your children: not you, not him/her, not school officials, not coaches or relatives or acquaintances, and especially not your kids. Your kids deserve to be able to expect everyone they meet will be required to show respect to their parents at least while in their presence. You should teach them to expect it not only of themselves, but of everyone else, too. It is part of their own self-respect.

Having said that, it is very important that you and your wife make it very clear that your divorce will not be used as an excuse for misbehavior by your children. Do not ever let your kids use how their mother acts as an excuse for their actions. Don’t make that kind of excuses for them. Defend their mother’s right to make her own choices, because you are not her father. Likewise, she is not your mother. You are still their parents. Make sure that neither you nor your wife ever lets them forget that.

If they need extra help, if they need extra counselling or tutoring, whatever they need in order to be able to do their part during these difficult times, of course you are willing to help them with that. What is not up for discussion is whether or not anyone in the family still has the duty to do his or her part. Having those boundaries may produce exterior angst, but it will do your kids good to have the security of knowing that their parents, though not husband and wife, are still being parents.

 

[90Domer]

Tuc, I can understand not wanting to live in a loveless marriage only to see the inevitable happen in the future. Just 2 things I wanted to add. If you do choose to stay together, realize that your suffering will be remembered in Heaven. I know that’s probably small comfort. And if you can, model the “no entitlement” attitude to your kids. And perhaps your wife can get on board with that.

I think our children’s generation will be the first to experience a lower standard of living than his/her parents. Pretty sobering. However, our kids will have to get used to this reality as more and more people remain underemployed. Something to the effect that you won’t miss what you don’t have.

Hoping September is a better month for you.

 

[kbachler]

In some ways Tuc, it sounds like you are starting to get through to her. She’s talking about the reality for the kids, reality with the house. She’s starting to see the reality with respect to her too,but can’t say it yet.

While preparing to move on, don’t necessarily give up. You may miss a beautiful opportunity that is or soon may be there.

Like you, many of our issues were my fault. I stayed because of our son (actually my step son, whom I have always loved as my own.) My wife would not go to counseling because people who did hat were failures.

Finally, after about 10 years of me pushing for counseling, she went last year. After a year I think we are just starting to make some communication breakthroughs. It’s been very hard work but I think we are on the verge of something important to us. She’s starting to understand that she contributed to or issues and wasn’t just a victim.

I hope that somehow the reality sinking in for her and your patience will be sufficient for you to pull through.

Not commenting on whether they are right or wrong - but if kids see parents bailing on a marrige when its tough, its hard to arge that homework is important.

 

[goldangel]

The disrespect my wife demonstrates towards me has rubbed off on the kids. They are very disrespectful & talk back all the time. When I ask my son what assignment he is doing, he will say things like “busy right now”. I had a very difficult time with him tonight. He is missing several assignments, and I went to the house to help him with a few of them. He said he didn’t want me there and didn’t want my help. He is already getting an F in one of his classes because of missing assignments. He doesn’t seem to care. It is so frustrating. My wife had the insight to realize that he is a reflection of how she brought him up. She even suggested staying together for his sake. I’ve told her before that we should stay together for our sake, because we want to be together, not from guilt because of our children.

You both brought him up. sorry for your difficulties; divorce is hard on a lot of children.

 

[EasterJoy]

Having said that, it is very important that you and your wife make it very clear that your divorce will not be used as an excuse for misbehavior by your children. Do not ever let your kids use how their mother acts as an excuse for their actions. Don’t make that kind of excuses for them. Defend their mother’s right to make her own choices, because you are not her father. Likewise, she is not your mother. You are still their parents. Make sure that neither you nor your wife ever lets them forget that.

This deserves clarification, because your serenity (and sanity) depends on accepting what is yours to do and what is out of your control.

You can decide what you’re going to do. You can encourage your wife to do what you believe best and make it as easy as possible to do it. You can’t “make sure” that your wife behaves in any particular way. That isn’t within your control. What your kids decide to do isn’t even in your control.

All you can control is whether the members of your family know what you expect, why you expect it, whether they know in what ways they can depend on you, and what outcomes they can expect from what choices they decide to make. They need to know the ways in which you are grateful for them and that there is nothing they can do that will affect your gratitude for what they are, for what God made them, that you are willing to forgive them for their wrongs, and so on: which is to say, they know you truly love them now and will always love them, whether or not you are feeling much “like” for them.

Do your duty towards them in love. After that, it is out of your hands.

 

[TexasCatholic99]

Tuc, all of this great advice you keep getting always brings me back to the one prayer I say almost everyday.

THE SERENITY PRAYER

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

(Extended Version)

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.

Amen and God Bless my brother

 

[TheRealJuliane]

TucDoc, my brother. Good to hear that you have started the process of healing.

Kids? Yep they are a handful.

Best advice I ever got was this: “If you don’t keep your kids busy, they will keep you busy” and not in a good way.

As parents we have got to stay involved whether we/they like it or not. You don’t have to say anything, just be there for them. Even if you have to wait in the car outside the house. Send him a text and let him know that you are outside if you need him. You got to give that kind of effort. Trust me, he will see it, no matter how he is behaving right now. I absolutely think you are doing the right thing by helping/offering to help. He is just a mad kid at this point. I read someone say that in a few years he will look back and realize that he was wrong about the way he treated you. My son did a few months ago, it shocked me (he is 22 yrs old now). He told me, “Dad I realize now how immature and selfish I was when I was younger, you were right and now I am sort of paying for it. But I am starting to learn and not make the same mistakes”. WOW!

I am going to tell you what I did with my wife. Our situations are very similar.
I gave her a book (you might want to mail it to her, not sure I would put a note in it or not, WHAT DO YOU THINK LADIES? Note or not?), “It’s Your Time”, by Joel Osteen. I told her “this book is not for us but that it is for you”, and I meant that. “Please try and read atleast one page out of this book for the next 30 days and if you don’t like it then stop reading it”.
When I went to buy this book at Lakewood I was doing it for her (by the way, I am Catholic). when I got to the register the young lady said that this book was a buy one get one free. Wow, I guess someone was telling me that I needed to read it to, so I am and it is really good, very uplifting and positive. I really don’t know if she is reading it but something positive is happening to her attitude. Its not a miracle or a fix all, its just a start.

Well brother, I am still praying for you and your family.

God Bless,

TC99

I really do not recommend anything by Joel Osteen. He is what the Protestants call a “false prophet” or a “false teacher,” and his books are merely pop psychology and motivation with a little Scripture thrown in to charm the Christians. His daddy would be so horrified at what Joel has turned Lakewood Church into. There are many people who see through his prosperity entertainment extravaganza. Please do not feed his ego by continuing to buy his books. And I hope that you are not attending that “church.”

 

[Serap]

In some ways Tuc, it sounds like you are starting to get through to her. She’s talking about the reality for the kids, reality with the house. She’s starting to see the reality with respect to her too,but can’t say it yet.

While preparing to move on, don’t necessarily give up. You may miss a beautiful opportunity that is or soon may be there.

Like you, many of our issues were my fault. I stayed because of our son (actually my step son, whom I have always loved as my own.) My wife would not go to counseling because people who did hat were failures.

Finally, after about 10 years of me pushing for counseling, she went last year. After a year I think we are just starting to make some communication breakthroughs. It’s been very hard work but I think we are on the verge of something important to us. She’s starting to understand that she contributed to or issues and wasn’t just a victim.

I hope that somehow the reality sinking in for her and your patience will be sufficient for you to pull through.

Not commenting on whether they are right or wrong - but if kids see parents bailing on a marrige when its tough, its hard to arge that homework is important.

BINGO!!!