Wife may want children, but i dont

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cynic:
wasn’t marriage created for man? If a couple both really don’t want children why must they have them to please the supposed will of God - which is only made clear, apparently, through doctrine. It seems that according to Catholics and strict evangalicals, marriage is only justified through it’s reproductive potential, and without it , any other benefits, companionship, love etc have no value. They cannot be sought on their own. Of course that’s the catholic view, but I find it depressing.
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To a cynic everything is depressing. What’s new?

CDL
 
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frogman80:
Cynic, I really am not trying to be rude… but you simply misunderstand. If Catholicism was about what you think its was about, it would be depressing, but you are mistaken. Many of us have attempted to explain this to you over and over again. I am sorry that you do not have the ability or desire to hear us.

But briefly… it is intention… not potential, and the other things you listed do have value. Also, it is not ONLY about intention.
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Frogman,

I wouldn’t worry too much about Cynic. Look up the definition of a Cynic. You will see why you should not worry. Our particular cynic may be toying with us so that he can keep up the ruse. Or he may well be serious. In that case he’s just like a growing number of atheists in our society. That would be sad. Pray for him, in either case. Treat him with respect. Assume he’s serious. But if you get frustrated in your attempts to explain things you just play into his game. Serious or pretend, cynics love to make people know how cynical they are and wish for you to join them.

CDL
 
Let me tell you - I SO understand!

Bit o’ Background - Been married a year, been with hubby for 3 years total. When we got married, neither of us wanted children, and neither of us are terribly crazy about kids, even now. At one point, I was so close to meeting with a doctor in order to have both of us sterilized.

Now…I’m in RCIA, hubby is still Non-Christian (and desires no children), and I have very high hopes of becoming confirmed this Easter. I/we no longer contracept, but if I were to become pregnant, I think I would FREAK out. I want to follow the will of God, but I’m scared to death and am wrestling with some serious mixed feelings and mixed messages.

So, anyways, I can empathize with you :-/

Best of luck!

~Jess
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Newbie_222:
Thats exactly it. I WANT to want to accept the teachings. If that makes any sense. But how does one actually go about making themselves do that? I have never wanted children. Given that fact, if I were raised a Catholic from birth, I would have probably chosen the single vocation in accordance with the Teachings. But I am married, so that is not an option now. I chose to become (or am becoming) a Catholic after-the-fact of being married.
I want to want children, but it feels like some part of me is preventing that. I know I will never have them, but I want to feel like if a miracle happened, I’d be ready to accept it. My wife really seems like she may want them. And I am feeling that this might turn into a really big issue.
I have considered the fact of possibly adoption at some point, but of older children that tend to have a harder time finding good homes. My wife seems to want them from Day 1. I feel like if I wanted children too, then we would both be on the same page, instead of being on opposite sides. Understand? It looks like my Spirit is willing but my Will is weak? I don’t know.
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frogman80:
you must be open to life, you must desire it.
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Actually, there is a difference between being open to life and wanting children. The church teaches that married couples must be open to life. That is, not actively preventing conception by their current actions, and welcoming life into this world should they become pregnant (God bless them!).

That is different from desiring to have children. If one says that no, they do not want children, but if they have children, they will love and care for them, then they are not going against church teaching. They may not be in the ideal situation for being parents, but they are not going against church teaching.

One of the biggest problems here is in the differing desires of the two spouses - one may want children, the other definitely does not. And, the vasectomy certainly complicates the matter.

My personal desire would be for frogman80 to seek out a reversal of his vasectomy and then, whether or not he wants to have children, be completely open to it, and, if God wills that they do become pregnant, welcome and love the child with all of his heart.
 
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TableServant:
Actually, there is a difference between being open to life and wanting children. The church teaches that married couples must be open to life. That is, not actively preventing conception by their current actions, and welcoming life into this world should they become pregnant (God bless them!).

That is different from desiring to have children. If one says that no, they do not want children, but if they have children, they will love and care for them, then they are not going against church teaching. They may not be in the ideal situation for being parents, but they are not going against church teaching.

One of the biggest problems here is in the differing desires of the two spouses - one may want children, the other definitely does not. And, the vasectomy certainly complicates the matter.

My personal desire would be for frogman80 to seek out a reversal of his vasectomy and then, whether or not he wants to have children, be completely open to it, and, if God wills that they do become pregnant, welcome and love the child with all of his heart.
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Actually, the Church’s teaching is that marriage is all about the unity and mutual support of the spouses, AS WELL AS the procreation and education of children. This is why couples must have a serious reason for practicing NFP. A reason that is not selfish. As Fr. Emil, of Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility in Lake Wobegon says, “If you didn’t want to go to Chicago, why did you get on the train?”

And a clarification: It was Newbie_222 who had the vasectomy, not Frogman80.
 
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cynic:
wasn’t marriage created for man? If a couple both really don’t want children why must they have them to please the supposed will of God - which is only made clear, apparently, through doctrine. It seems that according to Catholics and strict evangalicals, marriage is only justified through it’s reproductive potential, and without it , any other benefits, companionship, love etc have no value. They cannot be sought on their own. Of course that’s the catholic view, but I find it depressing.
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Of course you find it depressing, you’re not Catholic. But that doesn’t make it any less true.

You’re missing the point…it’s not about whether or not man/woman want children…it’s about man/woman recognizing they were created, they exist, for a reason and that reason is God’s to share with them at His time. Contrary to popular belief man does not exist for himself. Man/woman at all times are to remain open to God’s will. If that includes children, so be it. If not, so be it.
 
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JessicaCeleste:
Now…I’m in RCIA, hubby is still Non-Christian (and desires no children), and I have very high hopes of becoming confirmed this Easter. I/we no longer contracept, but if I were to become pregnant, I think I would FREAK out. I want to follow the will of God, but I’m scared to death and am wrestling with some serious mixed feelings and mixed messages.

So, anyways, I can empathize with you :-/

Best of luck!

~Jess
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Jessica, if you’re terrified of conceiving right now, then perhaps this is not the time. You and your husband must be on the same page when the time comes. Until then, I hope you’ve attended the Natural Family Planning seminars offered through your church or diocese and are implementing it in your life. Being open doesn’t mean throwing caution to the wind. You are obliged to be responsible in your openness to life.
 
Matt Collins:
Actually, the Church’s teaching is that marriage is all about the unity and mutual support of the spouses, AS WELL AS the procreation and education of children. This is why couples must have a serious reason for practicing NFP. A reason that is not selfish. As Fr. Emil, of Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility in Lake Wobegon says, “If you didn’t want to go to Chicago, why did you get on the train?”

And a clarification: It was Newbie_222 who had the vasectomy, not Frogman80.
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Thanks for the clarification on who had the vasectomy, and my apologies, frogman80.

I would not disagree, necessarily, with what you said here about church teaching, but again, the question is about being open to, vs. actively seeking. Certainly marriage is oriented toward procreation and education of children as well as the unity and mutual support of the spouses. That does not mean that the couple must have children, or be actively seeking to have children, to be in a valid marriage, or to be following church teaching.

What I’m saying is that OP does not have to want children to be following church teaching. In a way, this is similar to marriage, itself. The romance may be (hypothetically!!!) gone from my marriage, but I am still to stay with, and married to, my wife! As with all things, this is not a perfect analogy, but as so many have noted in other posts, it is not necessarily about our wants or desires, other than the desire to serve the Lord.

Now, yes, there are other indicators about being opposed to, or actively trying to prevent, conception. Yes, if a couple is never intimate, they are not being open to life. Yes, if a man has a vasectomy, he is not being open to life. But, does he need to reverse a vasectomy that he had when he was unaware of the law? Would it cause him a hardship? Or would it be a simple matter?

And, of course, if the OP absolutely refuses to have children, and is completely opposed to having them, to the point of saying “No, I am not open to having children, even if we could become pregnant. Not that I just don’t want to have children, but I vehemently want to not have children,” then, that, again, is something else.
 
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JessicaCeleste:
Let me tell you - I SO understand!

Bit o’ Background - Been married a year, been with hubby for 3 years total. When we got married, neither of us wanted children, and neither of us are terribly crazy about kids, even now. At one point, I was so close to meeting with a doctor in order to have both of us sterilized.

Now…I’m in RCIA, hubby is still Non-Christian (and desires no children), and I have very high hopes of becoming confirmed this Easter. I/we no longer contracept, but if I were to become pregnant, I think I would FREAK out. I want to follow the will of God, but I’m scared to death and am wrestling with some serious mixed feelings and mixed messages.

So, anyways, I can empathize with you :-/

Best of luck!

~Jess
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Newbie_222:
A long while back, i posted about becoming a Catholic but having a vasectomy a number of years ago. when my wife and i got civily married, we agreed that neither of us wanted children. i told her that if she ever thought she might want children, then we had better stop the wedding and save alot of heartache. she was completely fine with it, but later on her parents found out that i had a vasectomy, and now they basically hate me.
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Dear Jess and Newbie,
A lot of times when people have such strong desires to not have children then there are underlying psychological issues, aside from the obvious moral issues. I would suggest getting in touch with Catholic pyschologists to look into that possibility.
As a starting point I would call The Doctor Is In, it’s a show that’s on all Catholic radio stations from 12 - 2 Eastern Monday - Friday. Monday and Friday there is a very smart, compassionate woman on and Tu., W, Th there is a Catholic psychologist who is fabulous. Calling them (877-573-7825) would be a good starting point for some free advice. You can listen to the show at www.avemariaradio.net if you don’t have a Catholic station in your area and get a feel for the two hosts. They have a lot of wisdom and insight and might be able to help you two through this.
In any case, keep struggling through this - St. Paul (I think it’s St. Paul) says to work out your salvation in fear and trembling - that sounds to me to be where you are right now. You are both on the right track and the desire to want to want the right thing is a HUGE step in the process of becoming a follower of Christ - just be faithful to it and follow it through to the end. It will lead you to heaven!
God bless and welcome home to the Church!
 
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Newbie_222:
…when my wife and i got civily married, we agreed that neither of us wanted children. i told her that if she ever thought she might want children, then we had better stop the wedding and save alot of heartache. she was completely fine with it, but later on her parents found out that i had a vasectomy, and now they basically hate me.

we are not allowed to sleep in the same room when we visit there. they do not consider us married because of our civil ceremony, and because they dont consider a marriage valid where children are not wanted. they are very strict Catholics.

i am not invited to their christmas dinner either. her mother absolutely despises me now.
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I am sorry that your in-laws are such unreasonably harsh, judgmental and offensive people. If you were civilly married and in the process of RCIA, with the intention of ultimately undertaking a sacramental marriage, their conduct is highly punitive and potentially destructive of all the efforts you have made to draw near to the faith. Far from loving you into the Church, it’s amazing their conduct hasn’t driven you from it. Fortunately they are not representative of most Catholics.
in the past months, i am getting the feeling that my wife may really want children, and me to get a reversal. even though i am still in RICA, my feelings toward having children havent changed…i dont know if it is presure from her parents, or she might actually want kids.
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What is this “getting a feeling?” Have you not had very specific conversations about this with your wife!? If not, why not? This would seem to be the very first step of this process–to clearly and unequivocally discern what you each want individually and as a married couple with respect to welcoming children.
i cant make myself want kids. i know the church doesnt require a reversal, but i still always am worried about her getting pregnant the 1 in 30,000 cases where a vasectomy doesnt work…if given the choice to “magically” become fertile again, i would choose not to. how does one change the fact that you dont want children? i know what the church teaches, i just dont seem to be able to make myself want any children at all. there seems to be a big difference between what the church teaches, and what i am really feeling.
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Not every faithful Catholic, not even every married, faithful Catholic, is called to parenthood. Perhaps it’s time to recognize and accept that you may in fact be called to something totally different–especially given your medical history and the fact that you began investigating the faith only after your civil marriage.

You have a unique place and role to fulfill in the Church. Each of us is given different talents, capacities, desires and interests. Explore those avenues where you are inspired to contribute your talents instead of focusing on what you don’t feel drawn to. It is not selfishness to recognize that one is not called to be a priest, a teacher, a father, a lector, a choir member, etc. and choose another path to participate in and express one’s faith.

You have no moral obligation to undertake surgical procedures to reverse the vasectomy. Discuss your situation with your wife and formulate a plan that incorporates your goals as a couple and bears witness to your love of God and honors Him by utilizing the gifts He has given you.
 
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TableServant:
Thanks for the clarification on who had the vasectomy, and my apologies, frogman80.
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Yes, I am married with children, and actively hoping for more. 😃 Besides this… beware of the OP… it is my opinion that the OP is BioCatholic under a different guise trying to stir up debate. Vasectomy by ultrasound has only been been performed on animals to date… do a quick google on it.
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TableServant:
I would not disagree, necessarily, with what you said here about church teaching, but again, the question is about being open to, vs. actively seeking. Certainly marriage is oriented toward procreation and education of children as well as the unity and mutual support of the spouses. That does not mean that the couple must have children, or be actively seeking to have children, to be in a valid marriage, or to be following church teaching.
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You are right about actively seeking… Catholics do not need to attempt to conceive every time they have sex. They do need to be open to life every time they have marital intercourse.
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TableServant:
What I’m saying is that OP does not have to want children to be following church teaching. In a way, this is similar to marriage, itself. The romance may be (hypothetically!!!) gone from my marriage, but I am still to stay with, and married to, my wife! As with all things, this is not a perfect analogy, but as so many have noted in other posts, it is not necessarily about our wants or desires, other than the desire to serve the Lord.
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I know what you are saying… but the word “want”, can imply will or feelings, and I think that is where some confusion may exist. Being open to children says… God… I want any children that you choose to create with us. I would agree, fear may exist, and a perfect desire for children is not necessary: “God, I am fearful of having children, but trust you and want any children you give to me.”

JPII:
Sexual relations between a man and a woman in marriage have their full value as a union of persons only when they go with conscious acceptance of the possibility of parenthood… … …Marital relations between two persons ‘may’ give life to a new person. Hence, when a man and woman capable of procreation have intercourse their union must be accompanied by awareness and willing acceptance of the possibility that ‘I may become a father’ or ‘I may become a mother’. Without this the marital relationship will not be ‘internally’ justified - quite the contrary… … …the union of persons is not the same as sexual union. This latter is raised to the level of the person only when it is accompanied in the mind and the will by acceptance of the possibility of parenthood. This acceptance is so important, so decisive that without it marital intercourse cannot be said to be a realization of the personal order.
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So again… your feelings may not be 100% in place, but with your mental faculties you must have a willing acceptance. An ideal situation has will intellect and emotion all following the same tune!
 
Addendum to above…

“No desire” doesn’t cut it… some desire… even imperfect desire for children must exist.
 
frogman80, thanks for the post - I’d say that we’re in agreement on what the church teaching is, and I’m glad of that.

Congratulations on your children, and I’ll keep praying for your “more”. Please, if you would be so kind, pray for us - been trying, no blessings, yet.

I understand your reservations about the OP. I’ve been in computer bulletin boards and systems for some time. In newsgroups, we call them TROLLS because they a) troll the net, looking for someone to engage them in “debate”, and b) they act like TROLLS!

That said, I’m not so much worried about the OP’s, admittedly alleged, deception, at this point, as discussing the answer to the question. Newbie_222 (the OP) knows whether this was truth or falsehood, and must deal with that accordingly. It is up to us, if we feel we are being baited, to respond accordingly - treating him like a foreigner, one who does not know the truth (and, sometimes, even the foreigner learns to know the gospel!).
 
Psalm 37:4
Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

Newbie, first allow to commend you for your interest in the Church. I too am attempting to convert.

I’m not married, so I’m not going to pretend to know a lot about this issue. And to be completely honest, I don’t envy your situation. But as said in the verse above, God will give us the desires of our heart. But what of desires contrary to his will (yours might fall into this category)? Simple, God molds our desires into what they ought to be. Delight in the Lord; he will mold you into what he wants you to be, a saint (literally: holy one). I’ll be praying for you.
 
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Newbie_222:
Thats exactly it. I WANT to want to accept the teachings. If that makes any sense. But how does one actually go about making themselves do that? I have never wanted children. Given that fact, if I were raised a Catholic from birth, I would have probably chosen the single vocation in accordance with the Teachings. But I am married, so that is not an option now. I chose to become (or am becoming) a Catholic after-the-fact of being married.
I want to want children, but it feels like some part of me is preventing that. I know I will never have them, but I want to feel like if a miracle happened, I’d be ready to accept it. My wife really seems like she may want them. And I am feeling that this might turn into a really big issue.
I have considered the fact of possibly adoption at some point, but of older children that tend to have a harder time finding good homes. My wife seems to want them from Day 1. I feel like if I wanted children too, then we would both be on the same page, instead of being on opposite sides. Understand? It looks like my Spirit is willing but my Will is weak? I don’t know.
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I understand.

I have walked this similar path with different issues.

I have learned that walking the path can be an incredibly wonderful spiritual experience - usually in retrospect…🙂 .

I will suggest that you consider the following:
  1. Trust
Trusting in God is a very difficult thing to do. It means that I must believe from the top of my pointy little head to the bottom of my teeny little toes that God knows everything about me. everything. He knows my likes, my dislikes, my fears, my ambitions, my wants and my needs…and He loves me anyway. If I put my life into His Hands, every aspect of my life, then I must trust that what happens in that life is for my highest good.
  1. Obedience
Accepting the teachings of the Holy Mother Church and being obedient to those teachings is an outgrowth of Trust. God did not institute a Church on a whim, and His teachings are not to make our lives miserable, but to free us from the bondage of our selves. By practicing the virtue of obedience, we demonstrate, outwardly and inwardly, our willingness to trust in God.

I can’t tell you what to do or what not to do…and I am sorry that your inlaws are very strict Catholics and yet failing to treat you with the Christian love that is the foundation of Our Church. I will pray for all of you.
 
I have no advice but I will pray for you, that God will show you what to do.

Many years ago when I was in my 20’s I had a friend(also in his 20’s ) tell me that he had been sterilized because he didn’t want children. I don’t know if it was true or he was pulling my leg but I think it was true. I want to know- what kind of a doctor would sterilize a young, unmarried man who had never had children?
Seems very bad on the part of the doctor, to me…
 
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