Wife vs Parents?

[jbshmm]

Hello -

I feel embarrassed asking about what seems to be a pretty naive topic. But I struggle with this daily. Please hear me out?

I live in South Asia, and am a cradle Catholic. Have been married for 11 years. The marriage is really rough, and has been for the past 8 years or so. I’m hanging in somehow, but it’s a huge struggle.

One of the (many) HUGE issues my wife has is with my parents - specifically my mother. She thinks her mother-in-law is a major cause of the issues between us. To cut a long story short, I don’t agree.

As cultural background - “mother in law issues” and “taking care of parents” is one of the primary causes for marriage difficulties in this part of the world. As additional background - “respect for parents” is a VERY big deal here (way more than I have seen in the US).

So, I continue to struggle with how to be a good husband vs how to be a good son. Practically speaking, I don’t think I’m being either.

I wanted to ask the group - what does our Faith and the Bible say about how a man should prioritize his wife vs his parents? I somehow got the impression over time that the wife is supposed to be pre-eminent. But am not able to find a lot of scripture to support this. Just in terms of the number of mentions of this, the Bible seems to say a lot more about respect for parents than about the wife. For example, honor for parents is actually one of the Commandments - the wife does not figure at all. There is a good deal in the OT about taking care of one’s parents - and not much about one’s relationship with one’s wife. Even in the Gospels, Jesus doesn’t seem to say much about a wife - but he does mention parents. It’s only in the Epistles where it says that marriage is a parallel to Jesus’s relationship with the Church - and a man should love a wife more than his own body etc.

Now, I know I am no Bible scholar. I use the Bible more a lifeline than a study topic. So I must be missing several things here. Could someone help shed some light on this?

thank you!

 

[fpt]

Hello -

I feel embarrassed asking about what seems to be a pretty naive topic. But I struggle with this daily. Please hear me out?

I live in South Asia, and am a cradle Catholic. Have been married for 11 years. The marriage is really rough, and has been for the past 8 years or so. I’m hanging in somehow, but it’s a huge struggle.

One of the (many) HUGE issues my wife has is with my parents - specifically my mother. She thinks her mother-in-law is a major cause of the issues between us. To cut a long story short, I don’t agree.

As cultural background - “mother in law issues” and “taking care of parents” is one of the primary causes for marriage difficulties in this part of the world. As additional background - “respect for parents” is a VERY big deal here (way more than I have seen in the US).

So, I continue to struggle with how to be a good husband vs how to be a good son. Practically speaking, I don’t think I’m being either.

I wanted to ask the group - what does our Faith and the Bible say about how a man should prioritize his wife vs his parents? I somehow got the impression over time that the wife is supposed to be pre-eminent. But am not able to find a lot of scripture to support this. Just in terms of the number of mentions of this, the Bible seems to say a lot more about respect for parents than about the wife. For example, honor for parents is actually one of the Commandments - the wife does not figure at all. There is a good deal in the OT about taking care of one’s parents - and not much about one’s relationship with one’s wife. Even in the Gospels, Jesus doesn’t seem to say much about a wife - but he does mention parents. It’s only in the Epistles where it says that marriage is a parallel to Jesus’s relationship with the Church - and a man should love a wife more than his own body etc.

Now, I know I am no Bible scholar. I use the Bible more a lifeline than a study topic. So I must be missing several things here. Could someone help shed some light on this?

thank you!

In the catholic marriage (universal marriage thus also in the natural marriage), each member of couple has to enter in marriage with its own body with the corollaries, and with its own soul with the corollaries.

That means:
The creation of a couple (husband and wife and wife and husband, the husband with the wife and the wife with the husband): the community of love of couple. The potential arrival of children that means too the creation of family of couple.

By the marriage, each one leaves its mother and father for creation of couple and of the family. It is the marriage.

By principle, your wife is the first because she is your love, your beloved** (see your vows, the day of your wedding). **

The wrong culturalisms and the abuses of culturalism about the parents in law **must not destroy or kill your marriage. **Your wife is first, you are not a young man, a teenager, a baby, you are a male, you are a husband , before all. Yes your wife is the first, yes your couple is very important, and yes before all, try to be a good husband for your wife.

Talk with a priest for getting some help.

 

[bstorm]

Genesis 2:22-24: The LORD God then built up into a woman the rib that he had taken from the man. When he brought her to the man, the man said: “This one, at last, is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; This one shall be called ‘woman,’ for out of ‘her man’ this one has been taken.” That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body.

Also see Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:7-8, Ephesians 5:31.

 

[aicirt]

Sorry, I strongly disagree with the other two posters. The mantra of a man leaves his parents and clings to his wife is constantly stated but there does not seem to be the same empahasis on the woman’s obligation to leave her parents.

The fourth commandment states that one is to honor one’s parents all the days of their lives. This commandment does not disappear at one’s marriage. I believe it also goes on to state that the dutiful adult child receives many blessings by caring for one’s parents.

Also note the story of Ruth. Here’s a widowed daughter-in-law, a non Jew, who follows her widowed mother-in-law to her homeland. Naomi is so struck by Ruth’s care, she finds the girl a new husband. Equally appreciative is God who blesses Ruth. She, a non-Jew, becomes a great-great-great grandmother of Christ.

Your wife does not have the right to put a wedge between your relationship with your parents anymore than you have the right to do that to her. She should love the people who love you. If she can’t do that, then at least show the same respect she wants you to show to her family.

 

[Kit15]

I don’t know if the story of Ruth is a great example. Both women are widows and therefore unmarried at the time of this example of kindness towards a parent.

I agree that your marriage comes first. There are a lot of details you don’t mention and that is your right to do so. But as a general rule your spouse comes before your parents.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Sorry, I strongly disagree with the other two posters. The mantra of a man leaves his parents and clings to his wife is constantly stated but there does not seem to be the same empahasis on the woman’s obligation to leave her parents.

The fourth commandment states that one is to honor one’s parents all the days of their lives. This commandment does not disappear at one’s marriage. I believe it also goes on to state that the dutiful adult child receives many blessings by caring for one’s parents.

Also note the story of Ruth. Here’s a widowed daughter-in-law, a non Jew, who follows her widowed mother-in-law to her homeland. Naomi is so struck by Ruth’s care, she finds the girl a new husband. Equally appreciative is God who blesses Ruth. She, a non-Jew, becomes a great-great-great grandmother of Christ.

Your wife does not have the right to put a wedge between your relationship with your parents anymore than you have the right to do that to her. She should love the people who love you. If she can’t do that, then at least show the same respect she wants you to show to her family.

You really think that on your wedding day you take vows to put your wife above all else-except your parents? Of course she should love and respect his parents, barring abusive treatment or anything like that from them. But she does come first to her husband, and if she feels like she doesn’t then serious changes need to be made.

 

[fpt]

Sorry, I strongly disagree with the other two posters. The mantra of a man leaves his parents and clings to his wife is constantly stated but there does not seem to be the same empahasis on the woman’s obligation to leave her parents.

The fourth commandment states that one is to honor one’s parents all the days of their lives. This commandment does not disappear at one’s marriage. I believe it also goes on to state that the dutiful adult child receives many blessings by caring for one’s parents.

Also note the story of Ruth. Here’s a widowed daughter-in-law, a non Jew, who follows her widowed mother-in-law to her homeland. Naomi is so struck by Ruth’s care, she finds the girl a new husband. Equally appreciative is God who blesses Ruth. She, a non-Jew, becomes a great-great-great grandmother of Christ.

Your wife does not have the right to put a wedge between your relationship with your parents anymore than you have the right to do that to her. She should love the people who love you. If she can’t do that, then at least show the same respect she wants you to show to her family.

In my message, I only said that by principle his wife, his couple and his family should be the first important things before his parents and his parents in law.
**
Of course, if his parents and his parents in law have needs, him and his wife should help them. But, parents and parents in law have no right on his couple and his family, I mean they have to avoid abuses and excess in their relations with the couple, with him and with his wife.**

**
“mother in law issues” and “taking care of parents”???** He does not inform us in order to know the situation, for helping him. Yoy know nothing,** thus it is very hard to give advices in his particular situation. **

My message was in general. **Did he enter into couple and into the natural marriage? **If you see the case law of holy Rota, there are some situations where the declaration of nullity was because of an immaturity for marriage in link with the parents: no cut off in the natural sense (that is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body) That is not absolute of course, but it is the principle. Parents can be excessive, it is wrong, and if it is the case she has the right to ask to stop those excesses.

 

[aicirt]

I don’t know if the story of Ruth is a great example. Both women are widows and therefore unmarried at the time of this example of kindness towards a parent.

I agree that your marriage comes first. There are a lot of details you don’t mention and that is your right to do so. But as a general rule your spouse comes before your parents.

It isn’t a good example? Really? Ruth didn’t have to go with Naomi. Actually, Oprah, the other daughter-in-law, started out with them too. Naomi had to be one kind of lady. She didn’t ask either of her widowed dils to do this.

Apparently, to my mind, Ruth and Oprah continued to honor the widowed mil even after the deaths of their husbands who were Naomi’s sons. The dils obviously were giving more than required considering that they no longer were connected as the sons were dead. So what would they have done for Naomi if she was the widow and they’re husbands were still alive. I can’t imagine that they would not have been just as kind.

There are times when a spouse’s needs come first, and there are times when the parents’ needs are to be considered.

Neither a husband nor a wife have the right to damage a relationship with the other spouse’s parents.

 

[aicirt]

You really think that on your wedding day you take vows to put your wife above all else-except your parents? Of course she should love and respect his parents, barring abusive treatment or anything like that from them. But she does come first to her husband, and if she feels like she doesn’t then serious changes need to be made.

Do you think the fourth commandment dissolves at the time of your marriage? That it only pertains to children and those who are not married?

There are those who feel that all ceases when they get married and the spouse, whether it be the groom or the bride, are to have no one else in their lives except them.

 

[aicirt]

In my message, I only said that by principle his wife, his couple and his family should be the first important things before his parents and his parents in law.
**
Of course, if his parents and his parents in law have needs, him and his wife should help them. But, parents and parents in law have no right on his couple and his family, I mean they have to avoid abuses and excess in their relations with the couple, with him and with his wife.**

**
“mother in law issues” and “taking care of parents”???** He does not inform us in order to know the situation, for helping him. Yoy know nothing,** thus it is very hard to give advices in his particular situation. **

My message was in general. **Did he enter into couple and into the natural marriage? **If you see the case law of holy Rota, there are some situations where the declaration of nullity was because of an immaturity for marriage in link with the parents: no cut off in the natural sense (that is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body) That is not absolute of course, but it is the principle. Parents can be excessive, it is wrong, and if it is the case she has the right to ask to stop those excesses.

If I know nothing, then you know nothing.

Where this should be discussed in in Cana. I doubt that it is.

And trust me, dils and sils can be excessive too. You can have controlling in-laws of the senior variety but that doesn’t mean that the new dil or sil can’t have some issues regarding control too.

 

[PaulinVA]

Honoring your mother and father is one thing. Respect and treat them well all the days of your life.

However, there have to be boundaries. Your spouse always comes first. Your parents do not get to make significant decisions for you and your spouse. They do not get to voice an opinion on everything a couple does. This is just common sense - there are only two people in a marriage.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

Do you think the fourth commandment dissolves at the time of your marriage? That it only pertains to children and those who are not married?

There are those who feel that all ceases when they get married and the spouse, whether it be the groom or the bride, are to have no one else in their lives except them.

Yes, you have to honor your parents, but that doesn’t give them the right to interfere with your family and certainly not come between you and your spouse. The husband needs to set the boundaries with his parents and the wife with her parents.

If the parents are focing the husband to choose between his wife and them, then they are in error.

 

[capablanca911]

Part of my vows was “forsaking all others.” Your mom can gain a daughter or lose a son. That’s on her.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Honoring your mother and father is one thing. Respect and treat them well all the days of your life.

However, there have to be boundaries. Your spouse always comes first. Your parents do not get to make significant decisions for you and your spouse. They do not get to voice an opinion on everything a couple does. This is just common sense - there are only two people in a marriage.

EXACTLY! Putting your spouse first does not mean that you have no one in your life but your spouse, it just means that your spouse comes before anyone else.

 

[midori]

One of the issues comes from cultures that have a history of polygamy-- including the ancient Hebraic culture. In those cultures, the husband’s mother definitely takes precedence over any of the husband’s wives-- this generally comes up in gebirah threads. Things that are nice and straightforward in monogamous cultures are definitely more complicated when you’ve got four wives (like Jacob), or seven wives (like King David), or seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines…

Another thing to remember is that, historically speaking (and still true in many areas), brides in such cultures don’t have a whole lot of power/prestige/privilege. Their rank in the family is zero. They’re the property of their husbands, and expected to serve their mother-in-laws patiently and quietly and humbly… and get their turn to be waited on after their own sons get married. Elders have great influence over the household and are deferred to by all. They have an ability to criticize things freely and openly in a way that isn’t considered “polite” by Western standards. And because harmony and non-confrontation are valued, when a Western woman objects to a series of behavior patterns that are very rude and intrusive according to her cultural judgment, that resistance can cause even more difficulties.

Of course, I don’t know how much of this applies to you. But it’s only fair to point out that a Western idea of “honor your parents” and an Eastern idea of “honor your parents” are often times on two totally different planets.

 

[fpt]

EXACTLY! Putting your spouse first does not mean that you have no one in your life but your spouse, it just means that your spouse comes before anyone else.

I agree with that. It was my thought in my messages, with my own words coming from France.

In some cultures, the clanism of family or group can be very stressful, very hard to support for the couple and for the wife and even can go against the natural rights of each couple and of each member of couple.

The spouse stays the first and also his own couple: the natural law of marriage.

 

[Lorelei12]

Part of my vows was “forsaking all others.” Your mom can gain a daughter or lose a son. That’s on her.

Also, part of the priest’s blessing is “What God has joined, men must not divide”.

Of course parents should be respected, and supported as they age. This is outlined in the Catechism, and both spouses should make an effort to make sure their parents and in-laws are taken care of. However, this does not mean that parents can interfere in the marriage itself, and if your wife feels that your mother in law is causing issues that is problematic.

Since we don’t know any details, nobody here can really say whether your mother is out of line or not. Sometimes men (and I am only speaking generally here) don’t catch all the subtle issues between women, and don’t understand why certain things would bother us. You may not agree that your mother-in-law is causing issues, and maybe she isn’t. But if your wife is hurt by something, whether or not you think she should feel that way, it should matter to you.

 

[aicirt]

Yes, you have to honor your parents, but that doesn’t give them the right to interfere with your family and certainly not come between you and your spouse. The husband needs to set the boundaries with his parents and the wife with her parents.

If the parents are focing the husband to choose between his wife and them, then they are in error.

I wouldn’t tolerate that either.

I think the OP needs to qualify just what the wife objects to. This is apparently a close knit family. From what he wrote, there is cultural expectations which is wife should have been aware of when they wed.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I wouldn’t tolerate that either.

I think the OP needs to qualify just what the wife objects to. This is apparently a close knit family. From what he wrote, there is cultural expectations which is wife should have been aware of when they wed.

Uh…no. Cultural expectations do not take precedence over martial obligations and I don’t even think that the Catholic church would think it does.

Why are you so insistent that parents should come before a spouse?

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

I wanted to ask the group - what does our Faith and the Bible say about how a man should prioritize his wife vs his parents? I somehow got the impression over time that the wife is supposed to be pre-eminent. But am not able to find a lot of scripture to support this. Just in terms of the number of mentions of this, the Bible seems to say a lot more about respect for parents than about the wife. For example, honor for parents is actually one of the Commandments - the wife does not figure at all. There is a good deal in the OT about taking care of one’s parents - and not much about one’s relationship with one’s wife. Even in the Gospels, Jesus doesn’t seem to say much about a wife - but he does mention parents. It’s only in the Epistles where it says that marriage is a parallel to Jesus’s relationship with the Church - and a man should love a wife more than his own body etc.

The way it SHOULD be is that a man is to cleave to his wife AND honor his parents, and those two things are not in conflict. It is true that parents get a whole commandment all for themselves. I don’t know if they really get MORE mention than spouses, but if they do, perhaps one reason is that it is understood and assumed that the spouses are unified, but that there is a natural separation between adult children and their parents. If you think about a normal, no conflict family situation, it is the husband and wife who go to bed and wake up next to each other. But the presence of the parents is not automatic. The spouses are one flesh - cleaved to each other. But it requires something extra to seek out the mother and care for her, or honor her, once you are busy with your own family. I’m not saying that marriage isn’t work too, but just reducing this to the simplest terms, we shouldn’t need to be told to respect and honor our own flesh, but we do need to be told to respect and honor others. Wife is your own flesh. Your mother is “others.” Look at the 2nd of the great commandments that Jesus gave: Love your neighbor as yourself. Loving yourself is assumed. You have to be told to love your neighbor.

So to simplify it - wife comes first, within reasonable limits, and mother still needs to be honored.

One of the (many) HUGE issues my wife has is with my parents - specifically my mother. She thinks her mother-in-law is a major cause of the issues between us. To cut a long story short, I don’t agree.

So the problem is that this isn’t working out the way it should. There shouldn’t be a conflict between wife and mother. So something is dysfunctional (and unfortunately, dysfunction in this area is very common). Whether YOU are placing too much emphasis on honoring your mother, would be impossible to judge without knowing the situation. You certainly are one flesh with your wife, and presumably have a sacramental marriage with her. You must do everything you can to preserve and nurture that sacrament. You don’t have a sacramental bond with your mother to preserve. However that doesn’t mean your wife can require you to break the 4th Commandment. There are limits to loyalty to one’s spouse as well. Again, specifics would be required to judge if you have reached your limits.

The thing is, it is more practical to set boundaries with an unfairly demanding mother than it is with an unfairly demanding spouse. So if mom is setting inappropriate expectations, you can usually find a way to set limits with her while still honoring her, because less is required (usually) to honor a parent. If your wife is setting unfair expectations, there will be more difficulty because your obligations to your marriage are (usually) greater.