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severus68
Guest
So absolutely true.
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Burt_Macklin
Guest
I suppose I’m in the minority here in that I see the wife as being selfish. She needs to place the needs of her family above any desire for personal fulfillment. It is the same for the husband. I would see it as selfish if a man were to say, “this job isn’t “doing” it for me any more. Y’all’ll all have to tighten y’all belts and live on beans and rice while I pursue my true passion.” The needs of the children for their mother should be priority number one.
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SerraSemper
Guest
And just how do you propose to prove that the children will suffer from mom working part time? Remember that marriage is first about the good of the spouses and secondarily about the good of children. IF the Bible can recommend that the ideal wife buy and work a vineyard -hard dirty very blue collar work that would be **outside **of the town because the fields would be outside of the town and SELL goods to merchants- don’t you think that your view is unbiblical? By being outside the town, the vineyard job is de facto **outside **of the home. What about all the women who have traditionally worked as maids and servants of various kinds? Were they sinfully neglecting their children? Seriously? The Church has always seen schools and others as parental substitutes. Is the Church wrong about that and does it require that only parents in person parent their children? Shall we get rid of babysitters, teachers, and anyone else who caters to children? Get rid of pediatricians (parents need to take care of 100% of their kids’ needs), pastors (parents will say Mass for them at the domestic church the home hearth), etc.? Coaches should lose their job because each parent must be dedicated 24/7 to all the needs a child can possibly come up with. Do you see how ridiculous your “traditional” view is? What is totally a typical, ahistorical is the current homeschool movement (the most extreme SAHM format) because historically mothers did not have to be the maids, governesses, chauffeurs, landscapers, and all other jobs rolled into one. There were maids, cooks, laundresses, and other adults to support the raising of children and the moms weren’t overwhelmed. Today’s society will be viewed by later generations as the most skewed and unhealthy with artificial isolation of suburbs. We have a lot of problems but women working part time is not one of them.
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Portrait
Guest
Dear Burt Macklin,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly well said and bang on target, especially the bolded.
In his Encyclical, *Rerum Novarum *(authoritative standing Church teaching), Pope Leo XIII clearly favours the position that married women will be a “keepers at home” (Titus 2: 5), caring exclusively for their husbands and children:
“Women, again, are not suited for certain occupations; a woman is by nature suited for home-work, and it is that which is best adapted at once to preserve her modesty and promote the good bringing up of the children and the well-being of the family” (added emphasis mine).
It should be observed, dear friend, that Pope Leo does not establish his authoritative teaching on any temporal social circumstances/customs of the time which do indeed change, but upon the *nature *of women, which never changes from one generation to the next.
Unfortunately, dear friend, the misguided woman’s emancipation movement, which raised its ugly head in the 20th century, encouraged women to feel dissatisfied with motherhood. Many modern Catholics have been negatively influenced by ideology of this movement and its false egalitarianism. Thus it is hardly surprising that multitudes ofwomen today have abandoned the duty of housewife and mother for a ‘fulfilling career’. Pope Pius XI frequently addressed what he termed “the temptations of our day” for women to be lured by a “false independence” away from the family hearth and “the task assigned her for the good of society, by nature and by marriage”. The good Pope was only too well aware that some women - both then and now - will rebelliously protest against this life of self-sacrifice and thus wisely responds: “Do you really believe, however, that there is any true solid happiness here below not won through sacrifice and self-denial? For the wife and mother, it is those daily sacrifices for husband and children - *in an office given her by nature *- that will ensure the life of all to develop and flourish, and win her sanctification” (allocution to newly-weds 1942, added emphasis mine). This merely reflects biblical teaching and what is said in Rerum Novarum (see above).
God bless.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
In Christos
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SerraSemper
Guest
Some men run away from family responsibilities by becoming workaholics. Some women do. This does not mean a man should not work nor women. Now, just how can a woman plant a vineyard and stay in the home? Can she baby her children 24/7 and plant her vineyard?
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pessimist
Guest
Really? When I was growing up my dad was the superior handyman and my mom was the superior intellect.
What if the woman is barren?
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Walking_Home
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pianistclare
Guest
I can’t believe that at this point in time we’re arguing over whether women should work outside of the home. 
What if we acknowledged the work women of inside the home?
If this woman were not left to handle everything at home on her own, maybe she wouldn’t need outside fulfillment.
Sounds more of a case of “me slay beast. You cook beast.”
Honestly, what kinds of need do kids have for their mamas while they are in class? Should a woman sit by the phone and wait for the school to call and say the child needs assistance in the bathroom? Ridiculous.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that she take a fulltime job and hand over parenting to a daycare center. That indeed has hurt our society.
But getting a small part time job while they’re in school?
Harmless. And she should pursue the God-given talents she has for helping OTHERS outside of the home. That is what helps children to grow up thankful, well-adjusted, and in stewardship mode.
:coffeeread: :twocents:
What if we acknowledged the work women of inside the home?
If this woman were not left to handle everything at home on her own, maybe she wouldn’t need outside fulfillment.
Sounds more of a case of “me slay beast. You cook beast.”
Honestly, what kinds of need do kids have for their mamas while they are in class? Should a woman sit by the phone and wait for the school to call and say the child needs assistance in the bathroom? Ridiculous.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that she take a fulltime job and hand over parenting to a daycare center. That indeed has hurt our society.
But getting a small part time job while they’re in school?
Harmless. And she should pursue the God-given talents she has for helping OTHERS outside of the home. That is what helps children to grow up thankful, well-adjusted, and in stewardship mode.
:coffeeread: :twocents:
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Sarcelle
Guest
There is a utilitarian view in this forum that view women as nothing more than beings that provide sexual, child bearing, and housekeeping services for men. If a woman is not doing that, than she is useless.
I am single and don’t have kids and there are people who will not hesitate to say that I am living in sin since I am not a housewife and mother to at least a dozen kids. Women are human beings made in the image of God and not accessories made for the utilization and pleasure of men.
That being said, I believe that both husband and wife have the duty to prioritize the well- being of the family and if a personal desire gets in the way of the family’s well-being than both husband and wife would have to forego that dream. It’s part of being an adult, denying oneself for a greater good. In the case of the wife wanting an outside job, maybe they can consult family, friends, even their priest, and with prayer be able to reach a compromise that takes into mind the family’s well-being.
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pessimist
Guest
Yeah I got that impression. I also get sense some of them think women need to be smacked around now again. You know to be ‘disciplined’. Those woman folk can be quite the mouthy little vixens when they’re in their menstrual cycle.
EDIT: that last comment was obviously sarcasm.
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Mandychu22
Guest
:clapping::clapping::clapping:First time I’ve laughed out loud from an internet post in a long time. Hilarious.
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Rdunbar123
Guest
Don’t know what the earning power of the OP is but if his job is miserable, nursing can be well paying, why not let her be the breadwinner and he works part time. It might be an eye opener for both parties. She gets the stress of being the primary income earner and he gets all of the perceived fun of handling children and running the house.
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Ohana
Guest
Lots of “I”. “my”, “me” in your posts Happy Dad. Marriage is always a negotiation. I like one of the replies that points out that circumstances change.
Your wife is already not he edge of needing to return to an educational program to renew her skills. She got that nursing education for a purpose, and risks losing her skills if she does not involve herself in professional work.
Day care is thoroughly enjoyed by many children. Some local churches in our area provide Christian/Catholic based day care. Children who have good day care are often readier to enter school.
Maybe you need to pray about this together, then discuss from a more Christ-centered place.
Your wife is already not he edge of needing to return to an educational program to renew her skills. She got that nursing education for a purpose, and risks losing her skills if she does not involve herself in professional work.
Day care is thoroughly enjoyed by many children. Some local churches in our area provide Christian/Catholic based day care. Children who have good day care are often readier to enter school.
Maybe you need to pray about this together, then discuss from a more Christ-centered place.
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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
I’ve spotted a few problematic elements of this thread that have only been touched on in passing, if at all:
Happydad55:
Sarcelle:
- The demand for his wife to be exactly like his mother:
- The view of marriage as a type of contract wherein no party must ever change. If this view was restricted to the obligations of marriage (e.g., to remain together and not divorce, to have sex if physically/emotionally possible, etc.) then it wouldn’t be a problem, but in this case:
We are talking about an optional domestic arrangement which may or may not change.
- Poor comparisons. E.g.,
One is nothing like the other. In the former case, the survival of the family may be greatly impacted. In the latter, the survival of the family is minimally impacted.
- The idea that men are “3D” human beings—possessing differing needs, interests, ideas, roles, etc. whereas women are treated like “2D” persons, suited for one thing and one thing only. The typical old “men get choices, women don’t” type of deal. Sarcelle expressed this well:
- Why is this instantly a combative showdown instead of a genuine attempt to have a meeting of the minds?
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pianistclare
Guest
My two cents;
People often want things to go “like when I was a kid.”
We see this a lot in the arena of Catholic Schools. People have memories of Sister Mary so-an-so, and Fr. So-and so kindly leading the children through prayers and basketball.
The sisters and the priests who lead schools are not as numerous as when we grew up.
Likewise, the families who live close to everything, who got by on just one car, who had lots of extended help like grandparents and kindly neighbors are not finding it in our culture.
Sometimes people can’t let go of these “hopes, dreams, and perceptions” of how their lives were going to turn out.
Times are different. Not better, sometimes not worse. But different.
As so many have said: Marriage is a constant sharing, renewal, adjusting, bending, deferring, supporting, loving, selfless, and forgiving act.
Would I prefer to be a stay at home mom with a husband that makes a huge salary and within walking distance to the general store?
I don’t know.
God has placed me where He has for a reason.
People need to discern what God wants for them. Not what they only wish for themselves.
People often want things to go “like when I was a kid.”
We see this a lot in the arena of Catholic Schools. People have memories of Sister Mary so-an-so, and Fr. So-and so kindly leading the children through prayers and basketball.
The sisters and the priests who lead schools are not as numerous as when we grew up.
Likewise, the families who live close to everything, who got by on just one car, who had lots of extended help like grandparents and kindly neighbors are not finding it in our culture.
Sometimes people can’t let go of these “hopes, dreams, and perceptions” of how their lives were going to turn out.
Times are different. Not better, sometimes not worse. But different.
As so many have said: Marriage is a constant sharing, renewal, adjusting, bending, deferring, supporting, loving, selfless, and forgiving act.
Would I prefer to be a stay at home mom with a husband that makes a huge salary and within walking distance to the general store?
I don’t know.
God has placed me where He has for a reason.
People need to discern what God wants for them. Not what they only wish for themselves.
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aachristopher
Guest
Hi HappyDad55.
Your wife is clearly un-happy with the current situation, and you might do well to listen to her before your insistence that she stays at home becomes a major marital issue that could become destructive in the years to come.
You’re thinking from your head, as a contract and an agreement, whereas she is coming at this from her heart and where she is at the moment. Reasoning against her will only drive a wedge between you. Our wives can be amazingly strong, yet they do need to be valued and appreciated - more than us husbands often understand.
My 2 cents:
Buy her some flowers, hire a baby-sitter for the evening, and take her for a meal. Say something to her that will let her know that she is truly loved by you and that she made the right decision in marrying you. Tell her you appreciate her as a wife and mother for all the sacrifice she has made looking after the children, and that you’re happy to find some way that will enable her to work part-time and that you’ll try it for a while to see how it goes. It might not be what you want, bu tit could be what your marriage needs.
God Bless.
Your wife is clearly un-happy with the current situation, and you might do well to listen to her before your insistence that she stays at home becomes a major marital issue that could become destructive in the years to come.
You’re thinking from your head, as a contract and an agreement, whereas she is coming at this from her heart and where she is at the moment. Reasoning against her will only drive a wedge between you. Our wives can be amazingly strong, yet they do need to be valued and appreciated - more than us husbands often understand.
My 2 cents:
Buy her some flowers, hire a baby-sitter for the evening, and take her for a meal. Say something to her that will let her know that she is truly loved by you and that she made the right decision in marrying you. Tell her you appreciate her as a wife and mother for all the sacrifice she has made looking after the children, and that you’re happy to find some way that will enable her to work part-time and that you’ll try it for a while to see how it goes. It might not be what you want, bu tit could be what your marriage needs.
God Bless.
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aachristopher
Guest
Hi HappyDad55.
Your wife is clearly un-happy with the current situation, and you might do well to listen to her before your insistence that she stays at home becomes a major marital issue that could become destructive in the years to come.
You’re thinking from your head, as a contract and an agreement, whereas she is coming at this from her heart and where she is at the moment. Reasoning against her will only drive a wedge between you. Our wives can be amazingly strong, yet they do need to be valued and appreciated - more than us husbands often understand.
My 2 cents:
Buy her some flowers, hire a baby-sitter for the evening, and take her for a meal. Say something to her that will let her know that she is truly loved by you and that she made the right decision in marrying you. Tell her you appreciate her as a wife and mother for all the sacrifice she has made looking after the children, and that you’re happy to find some way that will enable her to work part-time and that you’ll try it for a while to see how it goes. It might not be what you want, bu tit could be what your marriage needs.
God Bless.
Your wife is clearly un-happy with the current situation, and you might do well to listen to her before your insistence that she stays at home becomes a major marital issue that could become destructive in the years to come.
You’re thinking from your head, as a contract and an agreement, whereas she is coming at this from her heart and where she is at the moment. Reasoning against her will only drive a wedge between you. Our wives can be amazingly strong, yet they do need to be valued and appreciated - more than us husbands often understand.
My 2 cents:
Buy her some flowers, hire a baby-sitter for the evening, and take her for a meal. Say something to her that will let her know that she is truly loved by you and that she made the right decision in marrying you. Tell her you appreciate her as a wife and mother for all the sacrifice she has made looking after the children, and that you’re happy to find some way that will enable her to work part-time and that you’ll try it for a while to see how it goes. It might not be what you want, bu tit could be what your marriage needs.
God Bless.
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Michael_Allen
Guest
Hey there HappyDada,
I really would trust your wife’s instincts on this much more than the opinion of a group of strangers on the internet. It’s not an irreversible decision anyway.
Our kids are grown up now, and my wife stayed at home to bring them up. But if she weren’t happy doing that then I would trust her to find the best balance of work and home for her and the kids. I think it’s impossible to generalise - so much depends on individual circumstances and on the personalities involved. That’s why I would trust your wife to have much better insight than any of us here.
God bless you both! Take care of each other.
I really would trust your wife’s instincts on this much more than the opinion of a group of strangers on the internet. It’s not an irreversible decision anyway.
Our kids are grown up now, and my wife stayed at home to bring them up. But if she weren’t happy doing that then I would trust her to find the best balance of work and home for her and the kids. I think it’s impossible to generalise - so much depends on individual circumstances and on the personalities involved. That’s why I would trust your wife to have much better insight than any of us here.
God bless you both! Take care of each other.
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SpidersfromMars
Guest
I hope you realise that the ‘misguided woman’s emancipation movement’ also covered things like the women’s right to vote, inherit property - basically to be treated like intelligent human beings and not children. Sorry if this notion offends you so much.
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
Think HappyDad’s wife is missing the adult interaction. Since the youngest children are too young for school, an acceptable compromise might be to allow her to work from home. I say that as I believe placing children into day care is not nearly as good for them as being with someone who genuinely cares about them. An acceptable long term compromise could be to wait until the youngest is in first grade, then take the part time job outside of the home. Another compromise may be available if there are relatives of the couple who would be available to provide care. As one can tell, I’m really against non-family day care and would avoid it, if at all possible.
While it’s okay with some limits for women to seek fulfillment in work outside the home, men who are providing for families rarely have this luxury. Not if they want to stay committed to the family. Not if they desire the respect of their wives. No, most men in this position choose love as an action: to get up every single day and go to a job they probably don’t like in order to bring home the check. Many committed men are okay with this, they made their commitment the day they said “I do”. Don’t disrespect that.
Finally, the family is about the children, the children … and the children. All decisions need to be made in that context. It would be selfish of the husband to short change his kids by taking a lackadaisical attitude toward provision. It would be selfish of the wife to put her own fulfillment in front of the kids if she doesn’t have to.
While it’s okay with some limits for women to seek fulfillment in work outside the home, men who are providing for families rarely have this luxury. Not if they want to stay committed to the family. Not if they desire the respect of their wives. No, most men in this position choose love as an action: to get up every single day and go to a job they probably don’t like in order to bring home the check. Many committed men are okay with this, they made their commitment the day they said “I do”. Don’t disrespect that.
Finally, the family is about the children, the children … and the children. All decisions need to be made in that context. It would be selfish of the husband to short change his kids by taking a lackadaisical attitude toward provision. It would be selfish of the wife to put her own fulfillment in front of the kids if she doesn’t have to.
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