Wife Won't Accept My Victory

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southern_knight said:
Do you agree with the Church’s teachings on sexuality. I find it troubling that you wouldn’t want your wife to read books about Catholicism for fear that she begin to understand and appreciate the the beauty and truth of the Catholic Church in all areas of life.
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As someone who has converted from Protestantism to Catholicism, I think that if you don’t agree with the Church’s teachings on sexuality, you might as well just be raising the kids as Protestants. I don’t understand why you feel so strongly about this if you don’t embrace the teachings of the Church?
 
You asked for advice and are ignoring it.

Seriously, if you are so worried about raising your children to be Catholic, then be a Catholic.

If you don’t believe in Church teachings when they’re inconvenient for you, don’t bother attending Mass to fulfill your Sunday obligation, and ignore the obligation you accepted to raise your children as Catholics in favor of a coin toss, then why on earth would you expect your wife to take Catholicism seriously, since your words and actions make it seem like you do not take it seriously yourself?
 
AvignonPapacy94 said:
Do I believe the Church’s teachings on sexuality? Well, sort of. But while it’s nice to see you are all quick to make fun of me, here’s what I see from my perspective if I follow y’all:

(1) Stop having sex with my wife, or (2) Risk bringing another child I cannot afford. Having my kids wearing Wal-Mart shoes so they get made fun of, or can’t play sports because we can’t afford it, or can’t get braces and has to deal with crooked teeth isn’t what I believe is the best direction to take my family.

What I don’t understand is this: You seem quick to label someone “not a Catholic” because they don’t have perfect church attendance or don’t believe everything that the Church teaches. I think you are viewing things in needlessly absolutist terms.

My objective is to be better tomorrow than I am today, and to be better today than I was yesterday. My goal isn’t to become the perfect Catholic per se, but rather, to follow Truth as best as I can, and I believe that the Catholic Church is the best source of truth I’ve ever found.

Sure, I don’t go to mass all the time, and I don’t really feel bad about using contraception, but that doesn’t sum up the entirety of a person to me. I’d rather spend my time helping others, doing good, being a good husband, and raising my kids right–that’s why I’ve reached out to y’all.

I’m disappointed that the advice in this thread gets caught up in how we chose the religion of our first son or our particular morality–that’s not what I came here to seek your opinions on–rather, I want to resolve this dilemma: How do I persuade my wife to raise the rest of our kids Catholic when she believes in equality and that her religious tradition shouldn’t be cast aside? The only thing y’all have said is “see a priest”, which is basically a non-answer.

Let me press the reset button. Forget the side tangents that have distracted us on this forum so far, and let’s focus on the issue of spousal persuasion techniques when it comes to raising second (and additional) children in the Catholic tradition.
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Wow. You just don’t get it, do you?
 
I reject the notion that you have to agree with all 12484937573 teachings of the church in order to be Catholic.
 
AvignonPapacy94 said:
Pope Francis said something recently about not judging, and perhaps that divinely inspired wisdom could be followed here…
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There is a difference between judgment and fraternal correction. The Catechism teaches us that “charity demands beneficence and fraternal correction”.

The advice offered is for your own good, and that of your family. If you accept the Catholic faith as the truth, or the closest thing to truth you have found, then surely it is in your own interests to seek to practise it better?
 
firead said:
You asked for advice and are ignoring it.

Seriously, if you are so worried about raising your children to be Catholic, then be a Catholic.

If you don’t believe in Church teachings when they’re inconvenient for you, don’t bother attending Mass to fulfill your Sunday obligation, and ignore the obligation you accepted to raise your children as Catholics in favor of a coin toss, then why on earth would you expect your wife to take Catholicism seriously, since your words and actions make it seem like you do not take it seriously yourself?
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This really is the best way to persuade your wife, AvPap.

Can you see why this is the most powerful and best way?

If you are looking for a more watered down version, your ability to persuade her is great weakened.

Good luck either way.
 
AvignonPapacy94 said:
I reject the notion that you have to agree with all 12484937573 teachings of the church in order to be Catholic.
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Then it really doesnt matter if they are Protestant or not, so it really shouldnt matter to you if they are Catholic or not. 🤷
 
I think some of these comments are a little divorced from the reality of living in modern America.
 
AvignonPapacy94 said:
It doesn’t necessarily have to be damaging to the family if it inspires robust debates and examinations into the different beliefs. Hell, maybe the kids that are raised Protestant (hypothetically) will be convinced of the superior logic of the Catholic Faith (after all, that’s why you’re here) and join anyway. Could be a moot point with my wife if I get the arguments right and win over my kids to my viewpoint.
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But when you and your wife have robust debates on sexual ethics but both agree on the Protestant ethic. And when you have debates on attending Sunday Mass but both agree that it’s not obligatory… really how robust is debate going to be?

You both agree on the Protestant ethic. It’s going to be a farcical and lame debate.
 
My wife said we could “start from scratch.” That is to say, she thinks that because our oldest is only 4, it’s not too late to raise him Protestant. I said, “Honey, we’re not recrossing the Rubicon.” We’ve already made our decision, and it’s time to populate the world with more Catholics, just at a slower pace than some on this forum would have me proceed with.
 
Why is it important to you for them to be raised Catholic over being raised Protestant? :confused:

Is it do to teachings or tradition?
 
AvignonPapacy94 said:
My wife said we could “start from scratch.” That is to say, she thinks that because our oldest is only 4, it’s not too late to raise him Protestant. I said, “Honey, we’re not recrossing the Rubicon.” We’ve already made our decision, and it’s time to populate the world with more Catholics, just at a slower pace than some on this forum would have me proceed with.
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So the Catholic teachings have great value to you? Does your behavior demonstrate that?
 
AvignonPapacy94 said:
I think some of these comments are a little divorced from the reality of living in modern America.
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Modern America accepts many things that are perverted and degrading. True, many “modern americans” see nothing wrong with contraception. They also see nothing wrong with divorce and porn. Where do you draw the line if you refuse to follow the clear teachings of the church in this matter? :confused:
 
AvignonPapacy94 said:
She feels “slighted” in that her faith seemingly ends with her; and it’s hard for me to provide a rationale for why I get to “win” and raise all the kids Catholic. It’s kind of a big deal to us, and she doesn’t think it’s fair that I get my way with all of our children.
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Neither of you is arguing based on the merits of your faith, neither of you seems particularly convinved of the Truth, objectively speaking, and you particularly seem content to pick and choose which parts of Catholicism you will embrace.

If you don’t believe the faith is true, why raise any of your children in it? Why claim it for yourself?

What makes Catholicism “better” than hers? Why are you opposed to her faith? Can you even articulate that?

There is no logical argument against the “one for you, one for me” position your wife has taken unless it is founded in the truths of the faith.
 
I don’t normally wade into these types of threads, but this one had me thinking. You are right that calling her crazy isn’t going to help things (it never does, despite being used a lot). I think the others are right when they say to work on your own religion first, but I think you are looking for a different type of advice. She has reasons for the way she thinks. You need to find out what those are. Two in particular come to mind for me:
  1. She “lost”. No one likes to lose anything. She may feel excluded from the decision making at this point. You need to find a way to frame it that all four of you “win”.
  2. She doesn’t want to lose her tradition. Our faith traditions, however stringently they are followed, are part of our personal histories and nostalgia that we want to pass on to our children. Entirely natural. Find out what part she is worried about losing and how you can incorporate that into your lives, whether it is finding a congregation that feels similar to her own, or going for coffee and doughnuts after, or whatever the case may be.
Only once you know what her objections are can you work together to overcome them. You need to work as a team. As a very competitive person, I understand how challenging it can be when you view yourself as victorious. You can only have victory when the both of you together have victory.
 
AvignonPapacy94 said:
My wife said we could “start from scratch.” That is to say, she thinks that because our oldest is only 4, it’s not too late to raise him Protestant. I said, “Honey, we’re not recrossing the Rubicon.” We’ve already made our decision, and it’s time to populate the world with more Catholics, just at a slower pace than some on this forum would have me proceed with.
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It sounds like to me that she, from her POV, did agree to raise the first child Catholic, but she, from her POV, didnt take that to mean that all children would be raised Catholic.

That her POV is more

“Your way, then my way, then your way” etc?

Is that a fair summation to the coin toss?

Sort of like the coin toss at a football game. Who ever wins the coin toss get so decided if they will receive or kick off, but then in the second half, it’s the other team’s ?

The two of you let this decision be based on a coin toss in the first place, right? so it’s that elementary?
 
Porn is not entirely bad per se, as long as both spouses agree to the terms of it (i.e. husband gets to look at porn once per month). I mean, we live in the Internet Age.

As for divorce, I agree, our culture has become much too accepting of it and don’t think that we have to “try and work things out” anymore.

As for my behavior, I do try to act Catholic and follows its teachings, but there are a few important ways in which I fail to do it. Maybe everyone else here is perfect, I don’t know, but I do what I can with what I’ve got.
 
What do you have against her Protestant background? Why is important to you that all of you children be raised Catholic?

The two of you made this original decision on a coin toss, right?
 
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