Wife's infidelity

[Brendan]

www.retrouvaille.org - This is a very Catholic organization that helps mend broken or breaking marriages.

They saved my in-laws marriage. I can’t speaking highly enough about them!!!

 

[gavin52]

puzzleannie:

poster is not here talking to friends or relatives (which would be even worse) or with a priest/friend, he is talking to total strangers which is disloyal to his wife. My opinion stands. if you don’t want to hear other opinions, please do not ask for them

Your opinion is ridiculous.

 

[SusanL]

puzzleannie:

poster is not here talking to friends or relatives (which would be even worse) or with a priest/friend, he is talking to total strangers which is disloyal to his wife. My opinion stands. if you don’t want to hear other opinions, please do not ask for them

He is not being disloyal. He is reaching out for help. We don’t know any real names here. All we know is a situation. You opinion can stand. It’s just wrong. Man, oh man.

 

[James_2_24]

puzzleannie:

poster is not here talking to friends or relatives (which would be even worse) or with a priest/friend, he is talking to total strangers which is disloyal to his wife. My opinion stands. if you don’t want to hear other opinions, please do not ask for them

Uhhh… when did I ask for your opinion? I don’t mind hearing your opinion… it can stand all it wants, but in the face of logic it crumbles .

I don’t know your situation, but if i didn’t know any better I would guess that you been through problems with your husband and he hurt your by telling your story to friends/relatives and so you are now biased against this kind of thing. That is just a wild guess.

A fail to see how this is disloyal to his wife. If this is disloyal then none of us can talk about our problems with other people whatsoever, we would all have to live in a box. This logic is so out there I can’t even begin to see where you are coming from.

If we apply your logic to confession you can’t even go into a confessional and say: “I confess being quick to anger with my wife, but the problem here is that I believe she…” OOPS! gotta stop here can’t talk to the priest about my problems. He is a “stranger” for all practical purposes cause he is behind a screen and doesn’t know who I am.

You don’t know who he is, he doesn’t know who you are, you don’t know who is wife is… what is the problem?

Your opinion can stand all you want… but if you say it stands… give us all here the logic on which it stands. What is your premise? WHY is it wrong? WHY is it disloyal? Give us reasons, not just acquisations.

God Bless you!

 

[James_2_24]

Timidity:

Or, is she trying to move on with starting over and he keeps bringing up the past? Does he keep asking her question after question about the incident, so that she’s eventually forced to say these things?

-So in your judgment he hasn’t forgiven her?
-Is it really the past if she says she can still see being this man’s
friend if they crossed paths? That sounds like a current problem
to me.

God Bless you.

 

[chevalier]

However, recently she admitted she could be his friend if they were to crosspaths again in the future. This makes me feel as if she’s holding on to him and that she doesn’t see the wrong that was done.

That’s correct, in my opinion. Either this or she thinks it’s wrong but “so what?” At any rate, it has been pointed out that keeping that friendship (which is correctly read as “at least friendship if I can’t have more”) may be becoming more important than marriage with you. I am not saying that one should always abandon friendship with persons with whom one has committed adultery (this would be too difficult of a problem for me to judge), but the circumstances of this case don’t really give an optimistic prospect here.

My wife also at one point told him she wished he was in bed with her. All along he told her that he was going to propose to his girlfriend. He was also aware that she is married and has two children. He tried to get my wife to a hotel with the excuse that he wanted to tell her something “in person”. When I found out about everything I confronted him and he admitted that he brought up the hotel to see how she’d react to that possibility and that he really had nothing to tell her in person but just wanted to see how far she’d go.

A guy who just wants to see how far a woman would go with him doesn’t love. Actually, he isn’t even a friend. Friends don’t do that to friends. He just wants to bed her. Don’t know if she’s lacking a sexual connection or emotional one, but she’s lacking it and she’s clinging to the feeble promise of obtaining it from him. Or rater a substitute for it, which she probably realises. The sooner she goes further and realises that the real thing is always better than a substitute, the better for her.

My wife has since admitted that if they did meet in private she would have had sex with him. That’s the the basic background of the whole situation. Now after all this she’s telling me she could be his friend. How should I handle this?

I am beginning to think that sex is the crux of the matter and we have no question of falling in love out of wedlock here. This does sound sad, but sex drive is probably easier to overcome than misplaced romantic feelings.

It appears your wife is being unreasonable and insensitive to say the least. It looks like a possible future friendship with him rides above her marriage. Is that person that important to her?

[gavin 52]

Agreed there.

Also, this same priest told us that when people confess adultery to him he advises them to never tell their spouse. I don’t exactly agree with that since that would be “living a lie” and deceitful.

There was that priest who taught religion in my highschool. He was a member of the missionary congregation which runs the basilica opposite to the university where I study law now. He said it was better not to tell the spouses and keep him or her happy because telling wouldn’t reverse the act. This way forgiveness cannot be obtained from the spouse, but it seems that this kind of forgiveness is actually intended for the benefit of the transgressor than the victim (this is my allegation), and as it is not required for absolution (you don’t have to have your victims forgive you to be absolved), reasons may be considered for keeping it secret. After all, telling the spouse mostly serves the unfaithful one - giving peace of mind, unburdening conscience and so on.

I don’t know if I’d rather be told or not told about unfaithfulness. But I would hate a lie if I asked (supposing I would). I just hate direct lies and I have never been able to trust a date or a girlfirend who lied to me at any point about anything no matter the gravity of it. So how much more I would be devastated by a wife lying.

When ever we try to talk about anything even remotely related to the unfaithfulness she gets mad and usually says something along the lines, “Face it, I did this to you and you can’t handle it.”

She is trying to shift the burden on you. Chances are she has read some stupid feminist magazines and she believes women only cheat because of men’s fault and men have to accept that. It’s her problem much more than yours. You haven’t done that, it doesn’t lie on your conscience. She has to face it and no one can do that for her. You should forgive her and all, but the proper attitude for her is regret and willingness to improve. If she has repented of it along with formal absolution, perhaps she has some right to tell you that now it’s the time for you to forgive her and you have to deal with it. But it’s hardly charitable and hardly repentant to shift the burden of what she alone has done on you.

Question arises, does she really regret?

 

[chevalier]

Yes, I would have slept with him! So what are you going to do about it?

Judging by my limited knowledge of human nature, she’s challenging you and trying to pick a fight, but inside she has a wish for her desires to be recognised as legitimate and for herself to be justified. This means that she’s having an attitude problem with the “rules” and lack of room for tiny concessions.

I would say that she has a problem with recognising herself as guilty. She would live with prescriptions, prohibitions and punishment, but she doesn’t want to be guilty. Part of regretting is to recognise one’s guilt. Part of repenting is regretting.

Maybe you could help this by not judging her and not speaking or talking about her guilt but instead loving her unconditionally as she is and letting her know this, but even so, you still can’t accept what she has done or would have done and you can’t tell her it is or would have been right for her to do or that it would make no problem. If I were in your shoes, I would probably state clearly that forgiveness would be total and unconditional but no justifications would be accepted.

“Even though I went past friendship with him I know I can be his friend again and keep it at that.”

I agree with that. She can. Question is, will she? What exactly does she want from that man? She needs to ask herself that question and there is no avoiding this.

If she wants at least friendship, she has a problem.

To finish off, she seems either to have a poor understanding of what marriage and fidelity is or to be in denial. What does she normally believe? Does she believe that marriage should be faithful and permanent? Did she believe this when you where marrying her? Has she ever condemned infidelity or expressed willingness to stay exclusively faithful to you or her abstract future husband other than the moment of exchanging marital vows?

But in everything I say, you probably should take me with a pinch of salt. I’m just a 21 year old law student who has never had a a formal fiancee, let alone wife.

 

[CaPray67]

Hermione:

I don’t mean to criticize. I feel terrible about what your wife did.

At the same time, that quote is alarming. Why would a Catholic priest say that? Given the Church’s teaching on the permanence of marriage, your wife had to have told him something very, very bad.

Has this, whatever it is, been addressed in your recovery? Could it also be the thing that contributed to your wife’s attraction to that other man?

What caused my wife’s attraction for another man was a marriage that was lacking in communication on both sides. I didn’t say “I love you” to her enough (ie. wasn’t fullfilling her emotional needs) and on her end she didn’t let me know that she felt the marriage was not going well. In fact, I got the exact opposite impression from her based on how she acted and what she said. I thought everything was going fine.

We both recognized the communication problem and that is what we were working on before she reverted to being unfaithful again. I felt like a fool because again she was showing me that she was happy and she wanted the marriage, etc. Then she suddenly turns cold and kept insisting she wanted to separate.

I asked my wife what she said to the priest to make him suggest separation and all she said was that she told him we were both going through a rough recovery.

 

[CaPray67]

puzzleannie:

poster is not here talking to friends or relatives (which would be even worse) or with a priest/friend, he is talking to total strangers which is disloyal to his wife. My opinion stands. if you don’t want to hear other opinions, please do not ask for them

I respect your opinion but disagree with it. There were no names mentioned. To the rest of the world it’s just an anonymous situation.

I’ve listened to EWTN radio programs and heard callers call in to ask about problems with friends, spouses, their kids, etc. I suppose EWTN is wrong to field those questions? I think the key here is that it is “anonymous”…no names mentioned.

Also, in these forums there is one called “Family Life” (which I probably should have started this thread in in the first place) which is summarized as a forum to discuss “Marriage, children, education, relatives, in-laws, advice”. Going by your opinion, most of the posts in there should not have been posted in the first place.

If I listened to your opinion I’d have no where to turn for help. I’d be stuck. All I am asking for is advice and much of what has been posted has been of some help.

And finally, my wife is aware that I have posted here. I told her before hand that I was going to post and she told me it was okay.

 

[CaPray67]

Teller44:

I was recently reading the chapter on Christian Marriage in C.S. Lewis’ “Mere Christianity.” In that Chapter he talks about how married people will claim that they have “fallen in love” and that this is as unavoidable that just happens to you “like measles.” He basically shows that this is not something that simply happens to you. It is a short chapter and the book is very easy to find at a library or bookstore. I think that if you and your wife read the chapter it might help start to dispel any ill founded “romantic notion” of “falling in love,” and help foster an understanding of the nature of love in marriage. God bless you and your family, I am praying for you!

Thank you. I picked this book up over the weekend and read the chapter about marriage. It helped alot. My wife also read it.

The chapter pointed out something I tried to explain to my wife before. She had mentioned to me that she had these “feelings” for this other man in which her stomach felt “funny” at the thought of him. She told me that she didn’t have these feelings for me anymore. I remember these feelings well. These are the feelings couples get at the beginning of a relationship. They die away after time. She didn’t seem to agree with me but after she read the chapter she appears to understand now.

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

CaPray67:

Hello,

My wife and I are trying to recover from her unfaithfulness that began in January of 2003. For two years I believed we where on the road to recovery but recently found out last December that she felt she was “in love” with this person. She said she was in love with him but at the same time claims to not have spoken to him since January 2003. For me this is hard to believe since she said she was not “in love” with him in January of 2003 but only had “feelings” back then. Yet somehow the feelings grew without any contact. After finding out about her feelings we agreed to attempt to keep out marriage together. She said her feelings for this other person were gone and I believed her and forgave her. However, recently she admitted she could be his friend if they were to crosspaths again in the future. This makes me feel as if she’s holding on to him and that she doesn’t see the wrong that was done. Before I end maybe I should just summerize the background of the whole situation. She started talking to this person back in January of 2003 in which she told him she was attracted to him. It moved along and soon they were talking about possibly meeting at a hotel in the future. They both admitted they’d be “afriad of what they might do” if they did meet. My wife also at one point told him she wished he was in bed with her. All along he told her that he was going to propose to his girlfriend. He was also aware that she is married and has two children. He tried to get my wife to a hotel with the excuse that he wanted to tell her something “in person”. When I found out about everything I confronted him and he admitted that he brought up the hotel to see how she’d react to that possibility and that he really had nothing to tell her in person but just wanted to see how far she’d go. My wife has since admitted that if they did meet in private she would have had sex with him. That’s the the basic background of the whole situation. Now after all this she’s telling me she could be his friend. How should I handle this?
Please help.

-CaPray97

Your wife sounds like an animal–my advise: put her down!

 

[tcay584]

Tom of Assisi:

Your wife sounds like an animal–my advise: put her down!

How charming! How biblical! How Christian! :tsktsk:

 

[otm]

After reading your subsequent posts, I am left with the feeling that you are not seeing a counselor and are floundering around. At some point, assuming that she sticks around, you need to come to the point that you let go of this issue and truly forgive her. And by that, I mean, you forgive her to the point that you are no longer dwelling on it, it is not bugging you, you are not aching over it, and you have no need to bring the subject up.

I’ve read comments by parents who have lost a child in a tragedy say that there is no closure. There can be closure, whether it is the death of a child, or the death of a marriage, or the loss of trust due to infidelity, but, 1) you have to work at it, and 2) it doesn’t mean that you literally forget it, but rather that you have scar-tissue, and there is no open wound; the wound has healed. It doesn’t go away, but it can be healed.

Before you can try to work on your wife, or get your wife to work on herself, or work with you, you have to start working on you. You may not be an emotional wreck, but you are seriously emotionally damaged and don’t seem to realize that some of what you are doing is not working at healing, but at digging up the hurt and reopening the wound. You need to get professional help, and you need to shut up about the issue with your spouse. You need to quit asking questions of her and start asking questions of you. You need to start treating her as the most important person in your life (when was the last time you called her from work and told her you missed her? Brought her flowers? Told her not only that you love her, but why?) instead of treating her as the perosn you are stuck with in a marriage that has had an infidelity.

If you think that digging around inside her head is going to start the healing, and build the trust, you are dead wrong. If you start treating her like you have forgiven her, she might have a reason to think she has been forgiven and start acting like a wife.

You only have control over one person. That person is you. You can only control one person’s fidelity; that is your fidelity. You can give love. You can’t make someone else love you. You can give them an opportunity to love you, as a reciprocal of the love you give them. But you can’t make them reciprocate. and they aren’t likely to reciprocate if you stay on the same path you are on now. Questioning her is not going to draw her closer to you; it is only going to push her away.

Get to counseling.

 

[CaPray67]

otm:

And by that, I mean, you forgive her to the point that you are no longer dwelling on it, it is not bugging you, you are not aching over it, and you have no need to bring the subject up.

Two years had went by during which this problem was fading away. I was not dwelling on it, it was not bugging me, etc. Then a few days after Christmas I caught her secretly trying to contact him. Shortly after that she admitted she felt “in love” with him. This re-opened everything. Suddenly all that had been gained over the two years was gone.

otm:

Before you can try to work on your wife, or get your wife to work on herself, or work with you, you have to start working on you.

Yes, I agree. I need to work on myself first.

otm:

You need to start treating her as the most important person in your life (when was the last time you called her from work and told her you missed her? Brought her flowers? Told her not only that you love her, but why?) instead of treating her as the perosn you are stuck with in a marriage that has had an infidelity.

Since December I called her many times from work to tell her I missed her. I sent her flowers also. It’s hard to take when she tells me that the flowers didn’t mean much to her. To me it seems like she feels stuck in the marriage. Around Valentine’s Day every year our parish asks all the couples to stand up and renew their vows. She told me that she’d remain seated if I stood up. That she would not renew her vows.

otm:

You only have control over one person. That person is you. You can only control one person’s fidelity; that is your fidelity. You can give love. You can’t make someone else love you.

Agreed.

One day it seems like she wants the marriage to work. The next day it’s the opposite. As if she is trying to push me away.

 

[gavin52]

CaPray67:

Two years had went by during which this problem was fading away. I was not dwelling on it, it was not bugging me, etc. Then a few days after Christmas I caught her secretly trying to contact him. Shortly after that she admitted she felt “in love” with him. This re-opened everything.

Sounds to me that you started to give your trust back to her and she turned around and betrayed you again. This is a difficult situation. Especially if she promised you after the first incident that she’d never be unfaithful again.

I agree with a previous poster that pointed out you need to work on yourself. I think what you need to work on is learning to trust her again. In order for that to happen she needs to show you that she can be trusted. She needs to win your trust back. If something is bothering you in regards to what happen it needs to be brought out in the open now. Not later. And that goes for her also. Some people are advising you not to ask her questions or bring anything up. I disagree with that given the current state of things and how fresh the unfaithfulness is. That’s something for later after both of you have had a chance to discuss what went wrong and how to fix it. She owes it to you to listen. You owe it to her to listen also. Don’t attack her for what she did. Let her know in a nice and gentle manner that you are hurt, confused, worried, etc. Just let her know how you feel. Also let her know that you love her and that you want to work on the marriage.

If you don’t mind me asking. Is she a Catholic? Is her faith strong? Did she have prior relationships before you? If so, how did they go?

 

[gavin52]

otm:

You may not be an emotional wreck, but you are seriously emotionally damaged and don’t seem to realize that some of what you are doing is not working at healing, but at digging up the hurt and reopening the wound.

I am going to have to disagree on this one. It looks like she reopened the wound by repeating her unfaithfulness. After a couple years of recovering for this to happen is a monumental disaster. It basically nullified any trust that was gained. It seems that you are asking him to overlook the reoccurance of a unfaithful act and move on. He can’t do that and it would be naive and foolish to do so. Before that happens they have to address what led to the reoccurance and that means talking about it. He also needs to atleast have some assurance that she’ll not be unfaithful again. That will be exceedingly difficult but it can be done. Please pray for them.

 

[otm]

CaPray67:

Two years had went by during which this problem was fading away. I was not dwelling on it, it was not bugging me, etc. Then a few days after Christmas I caught her secretly trying to contact him. Shortly after that she admitted she felt “in love” with him. This re-opened everything. Suddenly all that had been gained over the two years was gone.

Sorry. I think you said that before.

CaPray67:

Since December I called her many times from work to tell her I missed her. I sent her flowers also. It’s hard to take when she tells me that the flowers didn’t mean much to her. To me it seems like she feels stuck in the marriage. Around Valentine’s Day every year our parish asks all the couples to stand up and renew their vows. She told me that she’d remain seated if I stood up. That she would not renew her vows.

At the heart of dissatisfaction is sin. Sin in its essence is a turning away from God.

It is hard to watch someone who is objectively in sin (unless they admit they are subjectively sinning, it is not for us to judge). She obviously is unhappy in the marriage, and you cannot make her happy. Her unhappiness stems from her desire to be doing anything but to live out the covenant she made between herself, God, and you. Whatever it is that is causing her such angst, it is not ultimately you, nor is it the other guy. It is down deep inside her, and it doesn’t sound as if she is really seeking to root it out into the light and deal with it. We are all sinners; we all want what we want, not what God wants. And you get to wear whatever splashes out of this stewpot.

It is one of the deepest ironies of human existence, that we can enter into one of the (potentially) most intimate relations possible with another human being, and one day wake up and find ourselves the most alone and isolated.

CaPray67:

One day it seems like she wants the marriage to work. The next day it’s the opposite. As if she is trying to push me away.

She is, although she does not have the courage of her convictions to make a clean break. Most of it is in God’s hands, as you can’t make her do anything. And the serious odds are that you can’t even help her to find the truth.

You can storm Heaven with your prayers; you can enlist anyone and everyone to pray (and I suggest you do ask for prayers). The bottom line, however, is that she has that immeasurable gift that God gave to all of us: free will. And contrary to our greatest desires and perhaps even our greatest needs, God honors that freedom in each and every one of us. He will give her the grace to turn around her life (in Greek, metanoia). But she still has the freedom to accept and use, or reject that grace.

You can offer her the opportunity to join you in counseling. You can offer her the opportunity to make a Retrouvaille retreat. Other than that, you can pray, get counseling for yourself, and give her the freedom to make the right choice - which is also the freedom to make the wrong choice.

And while you are at it, you can also protect your backside (since it appears that she is making little or no effort to strengthen the marriage) by speaking with an attorney who specializes in divorce, to determine where you stand legally, and what you may be able to do should she file.

I do not recommend divorce as a solution. You need to understand that statistically, while the larger number of failed marriages receive an annullment, not all do, and the Vatican has released some further rules that may cause a higher portion of requests to be denied. The presumption is that you have a valid marriage in the eyes of the Church, and that should direct you on this issue. However, you have no control over her filing for divorce; speaking with an attorney should not be seen as condoning divorce, but simply preparing, if necessary, should she file.

 

[CaPray67]

gavin52:

Sounds to me that you started to give your trust back to her and she turned around and betrayed you again. This is a difficult situation. Especially if she promised you after the first incident that she’d never be unfaithful again.

Yes, this is true.

gavin52:

If you don’t mind me asking. Is she a Catholic? Is her faith strong? Did she have prior relationships before you? If so, how did they go?

Yes, she’s Catholic. I thought her faith was strong. She went to Mass on Sunday and occasionally throughout the week. Said the rosary almost daily. Read prayer books everyday. Visited the tabernacle often. Goes to confession. She told me that her number one purpose in life was to do what is right and someday be with Jesus in heaven. What I don’t understand is how someone like that can do what she did and say the things that she said.

Yes, she had prior relationships. All were unfaithful on both sides. She’s never been in a faithful relationship.

 

[cathgal]

This is so stupid. I posted a reply and I don’t see it. Well, here it goes again…

I’ve been following this thread and this is what I can conclude. It seems like Capray67 had tried to do all that was advised but to no avail. The problem I’m seeing is the wife. She has got someone in her heart and can’t seem to forget him. This is a big obstacle. As long as she’s dwelling on this man, it would be impossible for the marriage to recover. She was so indifferent to Capray like the flowers he gave her and the renewal of marriage vow in church. Sounds like she doesn’t have ‘feelings’ for her husband anymore. There’s not much Capray can do in this case. Capray, why don’t you confront her and tell her (once and for all, since you’ve tried all the others) that you done all you can to make the marriage work but it doesn’t take one person to do it but 2. Tell her that as long as she keeps thinking on this man, the marriage would fail. Tell her that what’s important to you now is she and the children; nothing else matter and that you really want the marriage to work, but is she willing. Tell her the ‘feelings’ she has for this man would not last and would quickly vanish. What will remain are her children and husband who loves her. Ask her is this what she wants to trade for, a fleeting ‘feeling’ in exchange for her family. Tell her…if being a Catholic or her love for Jesus mean anything to her, then she’d do what God wants of her and that is to fulfill her vocation in this life, but going off w/ another man will not get her to heaven. Capray, there’s only so much you can do…the rest awaits her.

 

[shannin]

puzzleannie:

whatever your wife’s actions, you have no right to discuss them here with strangers (or with your friends and relatives, for that matter) and you are being unfaithful to her by doing so. sorry if it hurts, but you did ask for help. get counselling, and when you go to confession and to Mass ask for family healing, and for the ability to truly forgive and be forgiven.

He has every right to post his questions here and he is certainly not being unfaithful to her by doing so. This man is obviously in deep pain and maybe some of the people in this forum can help him.

---

Blessings,
***Shannin ***