Will Billy Graham go to heaven?

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Bandito,

I agree with you on so many levels and even if I don’t I can understand or try to understand where you’re coming from.I am a protestant and I enjoy chatting with Catholics because they can show me things I’ve maybe never questioned before and just accepted because I grew up with a certain teaching.Itreally bothers me when catholics and protestants fight eachother and as we hear in Ireland they kill eachother.Very sad it is.I wish to promote peace and love to my fellow catholics such as yourself.Like racism,it can keep getting worse if people keep feeding the fire.
 
JWilson said:
You are saying it is the combination of faith and works but as I said before,a dying man who has hours to live wouldn’t have the chance to see heaven under that rule.The guy on the cross beside Jesus was no exception to what everyone else is entitled to.If you have faith in Him you will want to do good works of course and obey Him and not go live your life as you please.
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Yes,

I agree that there are scripture passages that support the requirement of faith but “faith alone” does not square with other passages in the Bible. It is not a Biblical belief but a tradition that started 1,500 years after Christ.
 
Faith without works is dead.If you have faith in Him you will want to obey Him and do good works.I think there is somewhat of a misunderstanding that all protestant believe that only faith will save you.That is not true.Anyone who professes to have faith in God and yet does not do good works I would have to question their faith.
 
JWilson said:
You are saying it is the combination of faith and works but as I said before,a dying man who has hours to live wouldn’t have the chance to see heaven under that rule.The guy on the cross beside Jesus was no exception to what everyone else is entitled to.If you have faith in Him you will want to do good works of course and obey Him and not go live your life as you please.
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Having faith IS an act. It is something you do. You seem to think that works are somehow separate from God’s grace, but that’s not the case. Works (including the act of faith) are done in response to God’s grace. Of course, God doesn’t ask us to do the impossible. To whom much is given, much will be expected, and it stands to reason that the converse is true.

Faith alone doesn’t guarantee love. As St. James points out:

You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?

I ask you to reconsider your terminology. I’ve never understood certain Christians parading around the slogan “faith alone” when the phrase only appears once in the Bible and where it appears, it is rejected.

Surely you don’t think that someone can be in rebellion with God and that God would force that person to be in “heaven” where they can hate God for all eternity in “heaven” simply because they believe God. The “faith alone” formula leads to an absurd heaven that can be populated by people who hate God.
 
Maranatha said:
Yes,

I agree that there are scripture passages that support the requirement of faith but “faith alone” does not square with other passages in the Bible. It is not a Biblical belief but a tradition that started 1,500 years after Christ.
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EXACTLY! The two words never appear togehter. although Luther toyed with the idea of making it so and booting james out of the Bible alltogether.
 
JWilson said:
…Anyone who professes to have faith in God and yet does not do good works I would have to question their faith.
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So much for an assurance of salvation. You’re never sure you have the “right kind of faith”. This is why I ask you to reconsider your terminology. You don’t really mean “faith alone”, you mean responding to God’s grace with faith and charity, and not rebelling from God… and that causes the controversy to disappear!

Recommended Reading:
Grace: What It Is and What It Does
Assurance of Salvation?
 
JWilson said:
Bandito,

I can not give you a definate answer for that question.I hear what you’re saying and I know of a some people who claim to have a faith in God yet they smoke,gamble,drink,swear,rob banks etc and do nothing good for the kingdom of heaven…
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What’s so wrong with robbing banks?

😉
 
DeFide,

You have totally misunderstood what I said earlier.I have agreed with what you said in my earlier statements if maybe you’d care to read them.You speak with such anger and attempt to insult me with words like ‘ignoramus’.It’s people like you that keep the protestant catholic fighting continuing on.Fortunately I forgive and move on and refuse to banter back and forth with insults as you choose to do.You can preach all you want but if hate, bitterness or anger is an underlying thought you should be careful who you preach to because it certainly doesn’t show the love of Jesus to anybody.🙂
 
JWilson said:
DeFide,

You have totally misunderstood what I said earlier.I have agreed with what you said in my earlier statements if maybe you’d care to read them.You speak with such anger and attempt to insult me with words like ‘ignoramus’.It’s people like you that keep the protestant catholic fighting continuing on.Fortunately I forgive and move on and refuse to banter back and forth with insults as you choose to do.You can preach all you want but if hate, bitterness or anger is an underlying thought you should be careful who you preach to because it certainly doesn’t show the love of Jesus to anybody.🙂
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He didn’t call you an ignoramus, he quoted scripture. What he highlighted wasn’t ignoramus but “even demons believe” and pointing out that faith alone does not necessarily guarantee love.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
JWilson said:
Red Bandito,

I do agree with you on many of your points.You seem well eduacated and I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.I will differ in saying that I (a protestant) do not believe works and baptism will save a person.It is by God’s grace and a true faith in Jesus and what He did for us.
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Before Vatican I he was a heretic and would have gone to hell.
Now he is part of the “seperated brethren” and will eventually go to heaven.
 
JWilson said:
DeFide,

You have totally misunderstood what I said earlier.I have agreed with what you said in my earlier statements if maybe you’d care to read them.You speak with such anger and attempt to insult me with words like ‘ignoramus’.It’s people like you that keep the protestant catholic fighting continuing on.Fortunately I forgive and move on and refuse to banter back and forth with insults as you choose to do.You can preach all you want but if hate, bitterness or anger is an underlying thought you should be careful who you preach to because it certainly doesn’t show the love of Jesus to anybody.🙂
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I dont see any anger in the responses to you. Just frustration as you ignore preety much everythng someone posts to regurgitate the same Scripture verses over and over again.

Personally i would still like to know why you believe God let his people live in error for 1,500 years after the death of his Son. Why he allowed millions of people to suffer eternal damnation becuase he decided to wait 1,500 years to reveal the truth?
 
JWilson said:
Faith without works is dead.If you have faith in Him you will want to obey Him and do good works.I think there is somewhat of a misunderstanding that all protestant believe that only faith will save you.That is not true.Anyone who professes to have faith in God and yet does not do good works I would have to question their faith.
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This is about as close to the Catholic position as you can get without acknowledging that the Catholic position is correct.

Perhaps we just have a different defination if faith.

Faith Alone by James Akin

However, if the term “faith” is being used to refer to faith formed by charity then the Catholic does not have to condemn the idea of justification by faith alone. In fact, in traditional works of Catholic theology, one regularly encounters the statement that formed faith is justifying faith. If one has formed faith, one is justified. Period.

…

We may put the relationship between the two concepts as follows:
Protestant idea of faith = Catholic idea of faith + Catholic idea of hope + Catholic idea of charity
 
You seem to make all kinds of accusations against protestants but really it comes right back at ya.You feel you have it all right as do we and this is why the fighting continues.I think the figting should stop.This website seems to be packed with all kinds of critisism of the protestant church.We actually next to never discuss the catholics amongst us.You seem tothink you’re on the winning team when really we should be all together for the same cause.God bless you all
 
kaycee said:
Before Vatican I he was a heretic and would have gone to hell.
Now he is part of the “seperated brethren” and will eventually go to heaven.
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Explain “seperated brethren” for me please, and help me understand how it applies here specifically?
 
TylerAlex said:
I read what Defide asked me to see off of the CA website, and it states:

"However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity."

We know out of fact that BIll Grahaham knew and understood what the Catholic Faith stands for… he has even spent time with many (hundreds I would gather) official Catholic Officials and Popes from around the world. In fact, he even has honory degrees from Catholic Colleges. He clearly is not ignorant. Does he most likely pass the above test?
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These are the knids of remarks that truley burn me up! How can anyone possibly say that if a humble, God-fearing non-Catholic Christian, who lives their life by the Gospel, especialy the moral teaching of Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount, and hears what the Catholic Church teaches, and does not believe it, then they are dammed?!!!

Who opens our eyes to Truth? Men? Absoluetly not! The Holy Spirit does. I understand “Invincible Ignorance” as anyone who TRULEY and without a doubt knows that the Catholic Church teaches the pure Truth of God, and THEN denies it, out of AROGANCE and PRIDE, then one is dammed. It’s as if one were to stand before God himself and still deny Him. Such cases as that is hate, pride, and arogance, NOT ignorance.

Condem me if you want, my Catholic brothers and sisters, but I do not believe that a truley God-fearing non-Catholic, with a humble and contrite heart, is dammed for not “knowing” or “accepting” God’s pure Truth. Honestly, I think God only works through people of love, not pride. And how many Catholics preach with love? I know many who find themselves “proud” to be the ones with the true teachings of Christ, and that “all others are going to have a bIG surprise on Judgment day.” Sayings such as these are EVIL!!!

God bless you.
 
JWilson said:
You seem to make all kinds of accusations against protestants but really it comes right back at ya.You feel you have it all right as do we and this is why the fighting continues.I think the figting should stop.This website seems to be packed with all kinds of critisism of the protestant church.We actually next to never discuss the catholics amongst us.You seem tothink you’re on the winning team when really we should be all together for the same cause.God bless you all
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You came her and expressed your belief in false Doctrines. Are we not required to proclaim the truth,

Btw:

Personally i would still like to know why you believe God let his people live in error for 1,500 years after the death of his Son. Why he allowed millions of people to suffer eternal damnation becuase he decided to wait 1,500 years to reveal the truth?
 
The_Catholic said:
These are the knids of remarks that truley burn me up! How can anyone possibly say that if a humble, God-fearing non-Catholic Christian, who lives their life by the Gospel, especialy the moral teaching of Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount, and hears what the Catholic Church teaches, and does not believe it, then they are dammed?!!!

Who opens our eyes to Truth? Men? Absoluetly not! The Holy Spirit does. I understand “Invincible Ignorance” as anyone who TRULEY and without a doubt knows that the Catholic Church teaches the pure Truth of God, and THEN denies it, out of AROGANCE and PRIDE, then one is dammed. It’s as if one were to stand before God himself and still deny Him. Such cases as that is hate, pride, and arogance, NOT ignorance.

Condem me if you want, my Catholic brothers and sisters, but I do not believe that a truley God-fearing non-Catholic, with a humble and contrite heart, is dammed for not “knowing” or “accepting” God’s pure Truth. Honestly, I think God only works through people of love, not pride. And how many Catholics preach with love? I know many who find themselves “proud” to be the ones with the true teachings of Christ, and that “all others are going to have a bIG surprise on Judgment day.” Sayings such as these are EVIL!!!

God bless you.
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I can empathize with you… because that is what my heart tends to say as well. However, is it the truth? That is what I am trying to work through by asking people.

Would you, however, be willing to apply the same logic to ALL devoted Christians outside the Church as well? Then why does the Catholic Church made such distinct, authoritative and binding statements regarding salvation outside the Church?

Lastly, can you justify your claim apologetically? Believe me, I am not trying to dispute what you think… I am just trying to support it is all. 🙂

Thanks!
 
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