Will Female Altar Servers be Supressed?

[ajurban]

As more and more parishes see the role of the acolyte as something that draws men to the seminary and eventual ordination, I think they will stray away from it. However I think that there is still a role for girls within the Mass. Serving as crucifer would be appropriate. There should be a distinction in the way the altar servers would be dressed and the female crucifer. The role of thurifer (incesner) should always be left to the male servers because it is a sign of Christ’s priesthood to offer prayers on behalf of the flock.

 

[AltarMan]

ajurban:

As more and more parishes see the role of the acolyte as something that draws men to the seminary and eventual ordination, I think they will stray away from it. However I think that there is still a role for girls within the Mass. Serving as crucifer would be appropriate. There should be a distinction in the way the altar servers would be dressed and the female crucifer. The role of thurifer (incesner) should always be left to the male servers because it is a sign of Christ’s priesthood to offer prayers on behalf of the flock.

1 - Altar servers are not acolytes.

2 - The functions of crucifer, thurifer and torch-bearer are handled by altar servers.

 

[AltarMan]

Dr. Bombay:

And yes, eventually girl altar boys will be supressed. It may not be for another century, but eventually it will happen. All the trendy innovations that attempt to make the Church conform to the world will eventually be tossed on the ash heap of history. Easily forgotten and never mourned.

This is nothing more than a guess, but I think we may see this early in the current Pontificate given the language in Redemptoris Sacramentum.

 

[AltarMan]

1) This already is divisive among the flock. Just come to my parish hall after Mass and ask everyone what they think of girl altar boys. You’ll hear plenty of divisiveness.

1. The only vocation a girl would want to pursue after serving at the altar is to become a girl priest. Which is fine, seeing as how the Episcopalians can always use a few more girl priests.
2. I can’t believe you threw out this stinky old canard. No place in the Church? Please. :nope:

I don’t think they have as yet announced a practicing lesbian as a “bishop” who dumped her family to shack-up with a lesbian sex partner. Now that a male conterpart exists (whose presence happens to be tearing up the Episcopalians), they really have some work to do in this area to ensure things are “equal.”

 

[Hamilcar]

I personally don’t think that having female altar servers is a good thing. It just confuses the issue. I’ve noticed that many boys in our parishs have not wanted to become altar servers because there are female altar servers. To them it now seems as if it is a girl’s thing. All three of my sons took their turns are altar servers and the youngest one is still at it. I never allowed my daughter to become an altar server. My wife and I explained the reasons to her and she understood completely. I am very proud of my daughter. She is much more involved in her faith than her brothers. Not being able to be an altar server was not an issue with her.

Rodrigo

 

[oat_soda]

this practice futhers the feminization of your average catholic parish. traditionally, women or girls have never had roles during the liturgy. if they did, it was stopped and consisdered an abuse.

while there are no reasons intrinsically why women can’t serve during the liturgy, there may be pragmatic ones, such as the threat of overly feminizing a church already dominated by women. i don’t see how this can help vocations.

 

[emsvetich]

I am in my 50’s and have been serving in my small rural parish for the last 8 or 9 years.I volunteered because there are few youngsters around and I was uncomfortable that our priest had no one to assit him.I am pleased to say that it has brought me closer to God. In the 50’s and early 60’s, the very mention of female " altar boys" would have been met with stares of disbelief. There was a definite fraternal mindset. We went camping, we went to seminaries on weekends and we hung out together. In thinking about when female “altar boys” came up, I think that it was shortly after V2 and was quietly introduced by the sisters who often participated in training altar boys. This was also about the same time that many of the “sisters” began to leave their habits behind, if they even remained in their religious orders at all.It was a time that women in the Church were challeging tradition.I do think that there was some ambiguity that allowed the introduction of altar girls to take place and the practice grew.

With the position of some women within the Church, whether as religious or in the pews, being that women are due a more visible role within the Church, this has been used as somewhat of an argument that deaconhood or prieshood is the next step that will be allowed. We even continue to hear that on this forum. It could not be clearer that a female priesthood is not going to happen based on papal pronouncements-- political correctness or not. Earlier this year, I attended an early weekday mass where several senior women were discussing comments that the Bishop made during confirmation several days earlier.They were speaking in very disparaging terms about the fact that the Bishop had addressed the boys in the confirmation assembly with a question about vocations to the priesthood. When the priest saying the morning mass asked about vocations among their children, one of the most vocal present stated, " Why would I ever suggest that my son consider the priesthood if my daughter does not have the same choice?" With that sort of mindset, is it any wonder that vocations are down. This same woman substitutes the gender neutral word “God” whenever possible in responses during the mass.

In my opinion, there will be a trend away from altar girls as the current pope and others within the Church continue to address the issues that ambiguous policies and weak pastors and bishops have allowed to creep in because of political correctness. There will always be those who are offended by Church traditions or policy, but they must not be allowed to dictate the direction of the Church in any way. It should be apparent that I am a traditionalist, but the 50+ years that I have been a Catholic are just a blink in the history of the Church. That is not enough time for tradition to end. We have a tendancy to think that if we think something is in need of a change to right an injustice that it must happen now or all is lost. When I am gone, the Church will still be here. If I could come back in 100 years, am I wrong to expect that the Church would be the same one that I left?

 

[SummaTheo]

emsvetich:

I am in my 50’s and have been serving in my small rural parish for the last 8 or 9 years.I volunteered because there are few youngsters around and I was uncomfortable that our priest had no one to assit him.I am pleased to say that it has brought me closer to God. In the 50’s and early 60’s, the very mention of female " altar boys" would have been met with stares of disbelief. There was a definite fraternal mindset. We went camping, we went to seminaries on weekends and we hung out together. In thinking about when female “altar boys” came up, I think that it was shortly after V2 and was quietly introduced by the sisters who often participated in training altar boys. This was also about the same time that many of the “sisters” began to leave their habits behind, if they even remained in their religious orders at all.It was a time that women in the Church were challeging tradition.I do think that there was some ambiguity that allowed the introduction of altar girls to take place and the practice grew.

With the position of some women within the Church, whether as religious or in the pews, being that women are due a more visible role within the Church, this has been used as somewhat of an argument that deaconhood or prieshood is the next step that will be allowed. We even continue to hear that on this forum. It could not be clearer that a female priesthood is not going to happen based on papal pronouncements-- political correctness or not. Earlier this year, I attended an early weekday mass where several senior women were discussing comments that the Bishop made during confirmation several days earlier.They were speaking in very disparaging terms about the fact that the Bishop had addressed the boys in the confirmation assembly with a question about vocations to the priesthood. When the priest saying the morning mass asked about vocations among their children, one of the most vocal present stated, " Why would I ever suggest that my son consider the priesthood if my daughter does not have the same choice?" With that sort of mindset, is it any wonder that vocations are down. This same woman substitutes the gender neutral word “God” whenever possible in responses during the mass.

In my opinion, there will be a trend away from altar girls as the current pope and others within the Church continue to address the issues that ambiguous policies and weak pastors and bishops have allowed to creep in because of political correctness. There will always be those who are offended by Church traditions or policy, but they must not be allowed to dictate the direction of the Church in any way. It should be apparent that I am a traditionalist, but the 50+ years that I have been a Catholic are just a blink in the history of the Church. That is not enough time for tradition to end. We have a tendancy to think that if we think something is in need of a change to right an injustice that it must happen now or all is lost. When I am gone, the Church will still be here. If I could come back in 100 years, am I wrong to expect that the Church would be the same one that I left?

Very good post!

 

[Orionthehunter]

oat soda:

this practice futhers the feminization of your average catholic parish. traditionally, women or girls have never had roles during the liturgy. if they did, it was stopped and consisdered an abuse.

while there are no reasons intrinsically why women can’t serve during the liturgy, there may be pragmatic ones, such as the threat of overly feminizing a church already dominated by women. i don’t see how this can help vocations.

Please explain what you mean by feminization of the Church. I recall a situation where a religion teacher was corrected by a Priest by her using alternating feminine/maculine pronouns (he/she etc.) when referring to God. He specifically told her about how God was greater than gender. It is the complementarity of man and woman that we are made in God’s image. Without one, the other is incomplete. This why we have the second story of creation about Eve coming from Adam’s rib.

Anyway, to the point of this thread, he continued to say that the Church emphatically looks to and is to refer to God the Creator in the masculine as this is the manner that He revealed Himself to us. But keeping in mind that God is neither male or female but infinitely greater than gender, we are too look for the complementarity of God in His Church. This is why the Church is always referred to in the feminine.

Furthermore, my parish is run by a very good Pastor. It relies heavily to fulfill its ministries on women and men. The work of the Church is great and requires everyone’s participation.

If your point is to criticize the FACT that most of the work is done by women, what are you doing to be involved? In fact, if we had more lay men involved, we do things better. It is the women who are carrying the bulk of the lay work. If we want more masculine influence, get involved but don’t criticize those who are doing the work.

P.S. DO NOT in any way interpret the above to be a subtle way to advocate female Priests/Deacons. Becuase the Church is feminine, the reason Priests/Deacons are male is to present the complementarity to the feminine Church so together we have a more clear Image of God.

 

[AltarMan]

emsvetich:

I am in my 50’s and have been serving in my small rural parish for the last 8 or 9 years.I volunteered because there are few youngsters around and I was uncomfortable that our priest had no one to assit him.I am pleased to say that it has brought me closer to God. In the 50’s and early 60’s, the very mention of female " altar boys" would have been met with stares of disbelief. There was a definite fraternal mindset. We went camping, we went to seminaries on weekends and we hung out together. In thinking about when female “altar boys” came up, I think that it was shortly after V2 and was quietly introduced by the sisters who often participated in training altar boys. This was also about the same time that many of the “sisters” began to leave their habits behind, if they even remained in their religious orders at all.It was a time that women in the Church were challeging tradition.I do think that there was some ambiguity that allowed the introduction of altar girls to take place and the practice grew.

With the position of some women within the Church, whether as religious or in the pews, being that women are due a more visible role within the Church, this has been used as somewhat of an argument that deaconhood or prieshood is the next step that will be allowed. We even continue to hear that on this forum. It could not be clearer that a female priesthood is not going to happen based on papal pronouncements-- political correctness or not. Earlier this year, I attended an early weekday mass where several senior women were discussing comments that the Bishop made during confirmation several days earlier.They were speaking in very disparaging terms about the fact that the Bishop had addressed the boys in the confirmation assembly with a question about vocations to the priesthood. When the priest saying the morning mass asked about vocations among their children, one of the most vocal present stated, " Why would I ever suggest that my son consider the priesthood if my daughter does not have the same choice?" With that sort of mindset, is it any wonder that vocations are down. This same woman substitutes the gender neutral word “God” whenever possible in responses during the mass.

In my opinion, there will be a trend away from altar girls as the current pope and others within the Church continue to address the issues that ambiguous policies and weak pastors and bishops have allowed to creep in because of political correctness. There will always be those who are offended by Church traditions or policy, but they must not be allowed to dictate the direction of the Church in any way. It should be apparent that I am a traditionalist, but the 50+ years that I have been a Catholic are just a blink in the history of the Church. That is not enough time for tradition to end. We have a tendancy to think that if we think something is in need of a change to right an injustice that it must happen now or all is lost. When I am gone, the Church will still be here. If I could come back in 100 years, am I wrong to expect that the Church would be the same one that I left?

That is a great, well-crafted posting, thanks be to God!

 

[AltarMan]

Hamilcar:

I personally don’t think that having female altar servers is a good thing. It just confuses the issue. I’ve noticed that many boys in our parishs have not wanted to become altar servers because there are female altar servers. To them it now seems as if it is a girl’s thing. All three of my sons took their turns are altar servers and the youngest one is still at it. I never allowed my daughter to become an altar server. My wife and I explained the reasons to her and she understood completely. I am very proud of my daughter. She is much more involved in her faith than her brothers. Not being able to be an altar server was not an issue with her.

Rodrigo

Very interesting. I have noticed that male altar servers tend to be young boys (likely pushed into serving by thier parents) or college age to elderly. I see very few male altar servers from say 12-18 years of age and I believe that has a great deal to do with the inclusion of female altar servers.

 

[buffalo]

AltarMan:

Very interesting. I have noticed that male altar servers tend to be young boys (likely pushed into serving by thier parents) or college age to elderly. I see very few male altar servers from say 12-18 years of age and I believe that has a great deal to do with the inclusion of female altar servers.

Correct - it is not seen as a manly service anymore. That is essential to vocations. An effeminate Church will leave the boys behind.

 

[David_Zampino]

Orionthehunter:

After participating in a golf tourney, I was sitting around with 8-10 guys drinking a beer or two. Anyway, Michelle Wie came up and her playing in men’s PGA events. Everyone had an opinion. After they were done expressing their thoughts, I polled the group. 100% of the men who didn’t want Michelle to play in men’s events had no daughters. 100% of the men who said that she was free to play had daughters.

I have four daughters – and I say she should NOT be free to play!

 

[AltarMan]

Like emsvetich I’m an adult who serves with other adult males at a specific Mass that has virtually no kids/teens in attendance. Given our genuine interest and experience we serve at what I would call a “journeyman” level – crisp, precise and by the book.

Unfortunately that dosen’t keep the woman in “charge” of altar servers from desperately trying to import young altar girls from other Masses. It’s painful to watch.

Nothing like hearing the opening “let us pray”, only to see the altar girls sitting back, twirling their hair, gazing out into the congregation. Once the celebrant motions for them to snap-to, they usually just hand him the closed Sacramentary so he can open it for himself (not that they would know which page to open it to.) It goes downhill from there, replete with a “forgotten” lavabo.

The altar girls are usually met with a rather icy reception at this Mass so there is usually a number of months between appearences, but even that is far too much.

 

[MrS]

emsvetich:

I am in my 50’s and have been serving in my small rural parish for the last 8 or 9 …

In my opinion, there will be a trend away from altar girls as the current pope and others within the Church continue to address the issues that ambiguous policies and weak pastors and bishops have allowed to creep in because of political correctness. There will always be those who are offended by Church traditions or policy, but they must not be allowed to dictate the direction of the Church in any way. It should be apparent that I am a traditionalist, but the 50+ years that I have been a Catholic are just a blink in the history of the Church. That is not enough time for tradition to end. We have a tendancy to think that if we think something is in need of a change to right an injustice that it must happen now or all is lost. When I am gone, the Church will still be here. If I could come back in 100 years, am I wrong to expect that the Church would be the same one that I left?

You need to post more often… they are good posts… but if we look to less quality for your quantity… then stay the course with your current pace of comments. Thanks for the well presented thoughts on the the topic.,

 

[Orionthehunter]

AltarMan:

Like emsvetich I’m an adult who serves with other adult males at a specific Mass that has virtually no kids/teens in attendance. Given our genuine interest and experience we serve at what I would call a “journeyman” level – crisp, precise and by the book.

Unfortunately that dosen’t keep the woman in “charge” of altar servers from desperately trying to import young altar girls from other Masses. It’s painful to watch.

Nothing like hearing the opening “let us pray”, only to see the altar girls sitting back, twirling their hair, gazing out into the congregation. Once the celebrant motions for them to snap-to, they usually just hand him the closed Sacramentary so he can open it for himself (not that they would know which page to open it to.) It goes downhill from there, replete with a “forgotten” lavabo.

The altar girls are usually met with a rather icy reception at this Mass so there is usually a number of months between appearences, but even that is far too much.

Your comments speak to bad training of these girls. Boys w/ bad training are just as likely to perform as you describe. As a journeyman you should volunteer to be the trainer of alter servers. We are blessed to have a Deacon at our parish who does this. I’ve never seen a girl or boy at our Parish be anything do as you describe (Granted, sometimes the younger ones show their lack of experience or youthfulness but they always recieve positive feedback after the Mass).

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

AltarMan:

Very interesting. I have noticed that male altar servers tend to be young boys (likely pushed into serving by thier parents) or college age to elderly. I see very few male altar servers from say 12-18 years of age and I believe that has a great deal to do with the inclusion of female altar servers.

If you are ever in Detroit, come to Assumption Grotto. I can’t tell where the greatest age group is. We’ve got around 60. Very few adolescent to teen boys are in the pews because they are in the Sanctuary. At Easter Mass last year, I’m told 47 served. Father didn’t want to disappoint any of them so he got them all involved in one way or another. That must have been some procession.

This is their thing. I’m a female and I am the first to be convinced that if it were open to females, these guys would begin to drop off. One could argue that it is not nice of them to not want to have females up there. However, in spite of the fact that feminist want everyone to believe there are no differences save genitals and hormone levels, one would have to be a complete fool to think that there are not social differences between the two groups.

I see a huge benefit to a male only corp in that it gives them a chance to become men in a particular service that historically has belonged to them. It has a pathway to the priesthood and while most will go off and get married, and probably be better men for having served, the few that are called to the priesthood have a better chance of hearing it in this way. What more critical time to have boys WANT to be a part of something like this than when they are in their teens, discerning their future?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[bear06]

I can hope! I have 4 girls and 2 boys and it took awhile before people stopped asking us when the girls, who are the oldest, were going to start serving. We always had to explain that we don’t think it a good idea for our girls or boys. We don’t have servers at our parish at all since we have some of the only children in the entire parish. It is unique. We used to have a boy who served but he went to college.

I’m betting a million dollars that if you asked some girls to clean a church, in most cases, they would not volunteer. This is sad because volunteer church cleaners are always in need. Ask them to be visibly on the altar and they’ll jump for the job. I don’t think that most understand true service. I think we should all try a little experiment. We should ask our daughters if they’d like to clean the church. If they say “no” then I think that there’s work to be done and that maybe they’re not getting the true meaning of serving our Lord.

 

[AltarMan]

Orionthehunter:

Your comments speak to bad training of these girls. Boys w/ bad training are just as likely to perform as you describe. As a journeyman you should volunteer to be the trainer of alter servers. We are blessed to have a Deacon at our parish who does this. I’ve never seen a girl or boy at our Parish be anything do as you describe (Granted, sometimes the younger ones show their lack of experience or youthfulness but they always recieve positive feedback after the Mass).

I agree part of the problem is indeed poor training, but an even bigger problem are disinterested children who get pushed into the ministry by their parents. This is particularly true of girls who get pushed into the ministry by their moms, at least at my parish.

From my experience, poorly trained boys still perform* far better* than poorly trained girls. I have seen boys that appeared overwhelmed and confused. I have yet however to see a boy play with his hair, wear a scarf with his alb that looks suspiciously like a priest’s stole, make cutsie little waves to friends in the pews, or wear enough make-up to make Joan Rivers blush with envy.

I agree with your training comment. On more than one occasion myself and others have volunteered to help with the training, only to be fiercely rebuffed by the same woman who tries so desperately to insert the altar girls into the Mass we typically serve.

 

[AltarMan]

Lux_et_veritas:

If you are ever in Detroit, come to Assumption Grotto. I can’t tell where the greatest age group is. We’ve got around 60. Very few adolescent to teen boys are in the pews because they are in the Sanctuary. At Easter Mass last year, I’m told 47 served. Father didn’t want to disappoint any of them so he got them all involved in one way or another. That must have been some procession.

This is their thing. I’m a female and I am the first to be convinced that if it were open to females, these guys would begin to drop off. One could argue that it is not nice of them to not want to have females up there. However, in spite of the fact that feminist want everyone to believe there are no differences save genitals and hormone levels, one would have to be a complete fool to think that there are not social differences between the two groups.

I see a huge benefit to a male only corp in that it gives them a chance to become men in a particular service that historically has belonged to them. It has a pathway to the priesthood and while most will go off and get married, and probably be better men for having served, the few that are called to the priesthood have a better chance of hearing it in this way. What more critical time to have boys WANT to be a part of something like this than when they are in their teens, discerning their future?

What an awesome parish! My guess is that boys WANT to be part of such a proud tradition. I’ll also wager that this parish generates more priests/deacons than the average parish.

Just look at the smallest guy in the entire bunch. Almost as if he’s looking at the photographer and thinking “yes we ARE knights of the altar, need you even ask!?!”

Those that push so hard for female altar servers should read your post and emsvetich’s a few times and meditate on that glorious photo!