Will Heaven be different for different people?

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Also, understand I didn’t say I wouldn’t want a heaven that would separate me from sports cars, yachts, drinking champagne, and carousing with showgirls. I’m not hoping for something sinful. Nor am I asking for all that much, I don’t think.

I’ll be really interested to see that God is a much nicer Being than some humans portray Him to be.
 
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seeker63:
About the only joy, the only glimpse of heaven, I’ve had in this life has been courtesy of my pets. If I never see my family and friends again, I can probably handle that, but it would crush me to be parted forever from my pets. I don’t think that makes me “too attached to creatures.”
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You’re kidding, right? If it would crush you to be parted forever from your pets, then yes, you are too attached. If you cannot bear to be parted from something, then you are attached to it. That is what attachment means.
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seeker63:
I will say that while my religion has given me strength, it hasn’t given me a lot of comfort or joy. It has, however, made me feel what a rotten, wretched person I am.
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And you accept that? I humbly suggest that you’re missing something.
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seeker63:
I think we understand more about science, nature, consciousness, etc., than anyone did in Medieval times. I think as the decades and maybe the centuries roll by we will discover there is more to animals than we had thought previously, and we will hold them in greater esteem and worth.

Only a few centuries ago many Americans regarded black slaves as livestock, without feelings or intrinsic worth, but we know now that is wrong. I submit that one day the same understanding may be applied to animals. It might, and it might not, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it did.
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The distinction between vegetative, animal, and rational souls is a philosophical one, not a scientific one.
 
seeker63, what a blessing it is that you have remained faithful despite feeling no joy from your Faith. Please don’t despair; you will never regret being faithful. God holds you near.

It is a shame that this thread has become a battleground for “What is Heaven?” As was said, there is nothing in the Catechism of the Catholic Church concerning pets in Heaven. Let us remember that Heaven is more than we can imagine. All Love comes from God. The pets that we’ve loved and been loved by, that have died in service to protect us, could be considered a gift from God. Some folks find little love from people, but are loved by pets. God does not abandon us.

An animal who gives its all loves to the utmost of its capacity. God will purify us of attachments in Purgatory. Love never dies. God works it all out because He loves us. Isn’t that enough?
 
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Originally Posted by seeker63
* About the only joy, the only glimpse of heaven, I’ve had in this life has been courtesy of my pets. If I never see my family and friends again, I can probably handle that, but it would crush me to be parted forever from my pets. I don’t think that makes me “too attached to creatures.”*

You’re kidding, right? If it would crush you to be parted forever from your pets, then yes, you are too attached. If you cannot bear to be parted from something, then you are attached to it. That is what attachment means.

**Sorry, Pentecost, I’m not a saint, perpetually caught up in rapturous visions of the Great Beyond. There are things and beings here on earth that I do love, yes. Once again it seems I’m not as holy as the average CAF user. I don’t mean that as an insult to you personally, certainly, but it does seem like a lot of people on this site are “perfect,” and that sure makes a dialogue difficult. **
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Originally Posted by seeker63
I will say that while my religion has given me strength, it hasn’t given me a lot of comfort or joy. It has, however, made me feel what a rotten, wretched person I am.

And you accept that? I humbly suggest that you’re missing something.

Well, as I pointed out in some posts a few months ago, I usually spend Mass brooding about my sins. And while I believe in the Catholic faith, I will say that converting to it hasn’t made me feel better. It’s kind of like thinking you’re $5000 in debt, then suddenly getting a letter from the bank saying you’re $100,000 in debt. You’re worse off than you possibly realized. You may never get out from under. There’s so much work to do.
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 	 		 			 				Originally Posted by **seeker63**
			*I think we understand more about science, nature, consciousness, etc., than anyone did in Medieval times. I think as the decades and maybe the centuries roll by we will discover there is more to animals than we had thought previously, and we will hold them in greater esteem and worth.
Only a few centuries ago many Americans regarded black slaves as livestock, without feelings or intrinsic worth, but we know now that is wrong. I submit that one day the same understanding may be applied to animals. It might, and it might not, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it did.*

The distinction between vegetative, animal, and rational souls is a philosophical one, not a scientific one.

**How does that change what I said there? **
 
*seeker63, what a blessing it is that you have remained faithful despite feeling no joy from your Faith. Please don’t despair; you will never regret being faithful. God holds you near.

Okay, I won’t say I’ve had no joy, but there’s been little. I suffer from depression, scruples, and a few other things. A few things have kept me going over the years, but overall it’s not been fun, and thus far, not worth the trouble it’s been.

It is a shame that this thread has become a battleground for “What is Heaven?” As was said, there is nothing in the Catechism of the Catholic Church concerning pets in Heaven. Let us remember that Heaven is more than we can imagine. All Love comes from God. The pets that we’ve loved and been loved by, that have died in service to protect us, could be considered a gift from God. Some folks find little love from people, but are loved by pets. God does not abandon us.

An animal who gives its all loves to the utmost of its capacity. God will purify us of attachments in Purgatory. Love never dies. God works it all out because He loves us. Isn’t that enough?

***I think so. I believe, as I said, God is much more loving than the legalists give Him credit for being. **
 
seeker63 said:
* Paramedicgirl*, **I have seen both of these before. I don’t much care for the first, but the latter is more to my liking.
I thought you might like that one! 😃
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seeker63:
And while I believe in the Catholic faith, I will say that converting to it hasn’t made me feel better. It’s kind of like thinking you’re $5000 in debt, then suddenly getting a letter from the bank saying you’re $100,000 in debt. You’re worse off than you possibly realized. You may never get out from under. There’s so much work to do
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I understand your meaning, and I think this is precisely why there are so many protestants with the once saved always saved mentality. It is much less work for them than
belonging to the Catholic faith. But hang in there, God won’t abandon you! :gopray2:
 
Seeker63,

please don’t give up on your faith, our time is so short here on earth compared to “eternal life in heaven.” Remember to ask Jesus to help you carry your cross of suffering and ask our Blessed Mother to help you always find strengh in your love for her son, our Lord Jesus.
Pray the Rosary often:gopray2: it is a powerful weapon against all that destroys our faith and hope.
{{Many Blessing sent your way}}
 
*I understand your meaning, and I think this is precisely why there are so many protestants with the once saved always saved mentality. It is much less work for them than
belonging to the Catholic faith. But hang in there, God won’t abandon you!
…
**
Seeker63,

please don’t give up on your faith, our time is so short here on earth compared to “eternal life in heaven.” Remember to ask Jesus to help you carry your cross of suffering and ask our Blessed Mother to help you always find strengh in your love for her son, our Lord Jesus.
Pray the Rosary often:gopray2: it is a powerful weapon against all that destroys our faith and hope.
{{Many Blessing sent your way}}*

The odd thing is in my regular life I seek, if not the path of least resistence, than at least, the path with the least trouble and bother.I did indeed come from a “once saved always saved” background, where all you had to do to get right with God was confess to Him in prayer, without having to make a trip to the Confession, do penance, etc.

It does seem with Catholicism that there are many more things regarded as sins, sins are regarded as more serious, and that even after you’ve gotten officially “forgiven” for them your slate is not wiped clean–you have much more to do about them and can never really be sure where you stand or if you’ve actually paid the penalty.

I pretty much knew that going in, so I have to wonder, knowing that and knowing my nature, why did I pick this path? What pushed or brought me to the Church? There’s got to be more to this than meets the eye. That’s why I “keep on keeping on.”
 
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seeker63:
It does seem with Catholicism that there are many more things regarded as sins, sins are regarded as more serious, and that even after you’ve gotten officially “forgiven” for them your slate is not wiped clean–you have much more to do about them and can never really be sure where you stand or if you’ve actually paid the penalty.
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But remember that the guilt of forgiven sins never returns. Once forgiven, a sin is forgiven forever. It is true that we have to fully atone for the temporal punishment due our forgiven sins, but it is more spiritually beneficial to focus on the mercy and goodness of God than it is to dwell on the punishment due our sins.
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seeker63:
I pretty much knew that going in, so I have to wonder, knowing that and knowing my nature, why did I pick this path? What pushed or brought me to the Church? There’s got to be more to this than meets the eye. That’s why I “keep on keeping on.”
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The grace of God brought you to the Church. And you listened to His call. For that, you are blessed.
 
Hmmm . . . pets in Heaven? Do you not believe that being able to see God face to face will give you much greater joy than the greatest joys here on earth? Of course that’s impossible for us to imagine while here, but I’m sure whether or not there are pets in Heaven you will be happy. The joys of Heaven cannot be compared to the joys of earth.

I believe in Heaven we will be reunited with our pets, but not in the sense that they will be risen from the dead or something, but more in the sense that since God has created all life, we will be able to understand all that he has created … if that makes any sense.

On a side note, keep in mind that it is really easy to love a creature that gives you so much unconditional love. The real test is loving your enemies, which we are called to do.
 
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Madia:
We can never comprehend God as He comprehends Himself; only God can comprehend Himself.
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I don’t even understand how there can be different levels of comprehending the same thing? You either comprehend something, or you don’t. Right? :confused:
 
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InSearchOfGod:
I don’t even understand how there can be different levels of comprehending the same thing? You either comprehend something, or you don’t. Right? :confused:
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I don’t think it’s as black and white as that. There are fuller aspects to God that some of us may never comprehend. That does not mean that we don’t know and love God, though.

Great saints have a much fuller understanding of God than less holy people, but they still share heaven with each other. I think those with the most understanding of God are closer to His throne in heaven, while those who achieved less holiness, but still merited heaven, are farther from His throne.
 
I’ve always been fond of this observation of Winston Churchill’s from his book, “Painting as a Pastime:”

*“When I get to heaven I mean to spend a considerable portion of my first million years in painting, and so get to the bottom of the subject. But then I shall require a still gayer palette than I get here below. I expect orange and vermilion will be the darkest, dullest colors upon it, and beyond them there will be a whole range of wonderful new colors which will delight the celestial eye.”

*That perspective on color alone has really fired my imagination about how brilliant heaven will be.
 
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seeker63:
I pretty much knew that going in, so I have to wonder, knowing that and knowing my nature, why did I pick this path? What pushed or brought me to the Church? There’s got to be more to this than meets the eye. That’s why I “keep on keeping on.”
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There is definitely much more than we will ever experience or understand in this world. Take Aquinas, for example. Yes, he was from the superstitious Medieval Age 🙂 but God definitely gifted him with knowledge and understanding that strengthened the Church. But the most amazing thing about Aquinas, I think, is not the great volumes of works he wrote, but that after having some kind of vision or experience right before he died, stated, “All I have written is as straw beside the things that have been revealed to me.”

I imagine entering God’s glory will be a similar experience for all of us.
 
Let me be very quick to point out I have nothing against Aquinas and would be a fool to do so. I just don’t like the CAF posters who use him as a club to bully with.

As for there being more than meets the eye, I meant not so much heaven–certainly that’s gonna be a big surprise–but I meant there’s more than I realize that led me to the Church. I sense God has something in mind for me, but I’ve not figured out what that is yet.
 
I’ll be happy to get there as the lowest level servant… but I’m aiming for as close as I can get to Him! But then, maybe those are both the same position… I dunno… But I’ve kinda thought of it like this:

First I don’t think we can possibly comprehend Heaven in the slightest. I think we try to find Earthly things that we can use for relation to fulfill our curiosity. I think this is ok as long as we don’t dwell on it and realize that, whatever Heaven might be like, it’s the place to be and we’ll do whatever it takes to get there.

During the final judgment, everyone will be in 100% agreement with each judgment. If one person gets a better seat than another, everyone will have a complete understanding and be in total agreement with that ruling. There won’t be any ability to be jealous.

Those who are sentenced to hell are there due to their own denial and attempted destruction of God’s love. They feel that if God doesn’t conform to their desires, then His Heaven isn’t for them. They choose their position to be away from God. Conversely, those who make it to heaven are there because of their great desire to have and spread His love. They choose to be close to God. While on Earth, people have varying levels of effort in both directions. And so, though there may be different positions, we are infinitely pleased by God’s perfect justice without any possibility for jealousy.

I also think we will still have choice, but I wonder if we’d choose to go hang out at the bowling alley in Heaven. I guess someone does, 'cause I still hear the thunder up there 😉 But it seems that, if given all the answers, our choice would be clear. Personally, I think that choice would be joining the choirs of angels in praise to God. Our imperfect humanity may make that sound boring to us now, but after we’ve been purged and we’re there… … I dunno…

Nor does there need to be bad so that we can know when we are experiencing good. An example might be receiving a gift that turns out to be better than we originally thought… but in Heaven it just keeps getting better for eternity. But that implies that the previous happy moment wasn’t as good as this moment and therefore imperfect. So I dunno… Heaven is beyond our understanding…

And when we get there, if we have our pets with us, will there be leash laws? 😉 But seriously, if we we’re walking down Main street Heaven with Spot, and there, before us, on His magnificent throne, sat our Creator, the Source of Love, the Infinite… How could we hold on to the leash? How could we remain standing? How could we not crumble to the ground and explode into tears of overwhelming happiness at the distant sight of His majesty? I’d forget about Spot pretty quickly I think; even considering how much I might have loved him while on Earth. The dog was a gift from God; a great gift that He gave us as a foreshadowing… an immeasurably small preparation… for this perfect moment.
 
People take issue with my “attachment” to my pets, saying there must be something wrong with me if I’d be crushed not to see them in heaven. I don’t know…would it bother you not to see your spouse or kids there? If you’d be crushed by the death of your spouse or child, does that mean you’re too “attached”? Am I the only one on CAF who’s not an earthly saint or a Buddhist monk?

I don’t mean to slight God in any way, but I would hate to be so shallow that I would forget the love I had for the other loved ones in my life once I got a first-hand taste of God’s love. I know God is to be our paramount love, but I don’t believe He is to be our only love.
 
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