Will Jesus judge people into heaven (through Him) or Hell based on conduct?

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It doesn’t deny these teachings. The point of the JDDJ is NOT to answer the question, 'how does one get to Heaven?" The point is to declare those things which we jointly hold as truth. Just because some people mistakenly take the JDDJ as an answer to that question, it doesn’t mean we should despise it for what it really is.

That would be like saying we should stop saying Hail Marys because some people mistakenly believe that we are worshipping her with it.

Also, the JDDJ doesn’t deny any of Jesus’ teachings. The absence of an approval does not constitute the denial of something. Would we say that the Bible denies the Assumption because it doesn’t approve it? Of course not.

Again, the JDDJ is nothing more than a declaration of what they two sides both agree on. Since St. Paul is something they both agree on, he is referenced more.
 
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Matt16_18:
Start a thread on the JDDJ and show us where the deception lies!
Hello Matt,

Here is the link you request.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=12061
 
****I dont agree its a deception, I believe its a joint declaration agreement between the two religions on Salvation/Justification This common listening, together with the theological conversations of recent years, has led to a shared understanding of justification…

In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father.

The Sacraments are the difference at this point, the Catholic Church has 7 and the Lutheran Church has 2 , communion and Baptism./****B]

Sara
 
The way I understand it, we are saved by Grace. Without Grace, all our works are nothing. God wills that all men be saved, therefore He offers his Grace to everyone. What we do with His Grace then determines our fate, for faith itself is a “work” in that it is our response, the first and most essential response to God’s Grace. If Faith (belief in God and His revelation) were not a “work”, something “done” by man, then how does one interpret that “Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness”? So in a very real sense, Faith is the first work from which all others flow, and by which we will be judged. So yes, we will be judged by our works.
 
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Catilieth:
The way I understand it, we are saved by Grace. Without Grace, all our works are nothing. God wills that all men be saved, therefore He offers his Grace to everyone. What we do with His Grace then determines our fate, for faith itself is a “work” in that it is our response, the first and most essential response to God’s Grace. If Faith (belief in God and His revelation) were not a “work”, something “done” by man, then how does one interpret that “Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness”? So in a very real sense, Faith is the first work from which all others flow, and by which we will be judged. So yes, we will be judged by our works.
Hello Catilieth,

Would you not agree that Abraham’s initial act of faith was the work of obeying God’s command to offer up Isaac as a sacrifice?

Jesus tells us it is those who obey Him who have faith.

Does not Jesus teach that faith and obedience are one in the same? To obey what Jesus tells you to do is to put faith in Jesus.

NAB JOH 12:44Jesus proclaimed aloud: “Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; and whoever looks on me is seeing him who sent me. I have come to the world as its light, to keep anyone who **believes **in me from remaining in the dark. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken it is that which will condemn him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me.” NAB JOH 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has
life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God.NAB JOH 14:14

"Anything you ask me in my name I will do. If you love
me and obey the commands I give you." NAB MAT 21:22

"You will receive all that you pray for, provided you have faith.
"

NAB JAM 2:18

**To such a person one might say, “You have faith and I have works is that it? Show me your faith without works, and I will show you the faith that underlies my works!” **Do you believe that God is one? You are quite right. The demons believe that, and shudder. **Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that without works faith is idle? Was not our father Abraham justified by his works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? **There you see proof that faith was both assisting his works and implemented by his works. You also see how the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as justice”; for this he received the title “God’s friend.”

You must perceive that a person is justified by his works and not by faith alone. Rahab the harlot will illustrate the point. Was she not justified by her works when she harbored the messengers and sent them out by a different route? Be assured, then, that faith without works is as dead as a body without breath.
NAB GEN 22:15


Again the LORD’s messenger called to Abraham from heaven and said: “I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you acted as you did in not withholding from me your beloved son, I will bless you abundantly and make your descendants as countless as the stars of the sky and the sands of the seashore; your descendants shall take possession of the gates of their enemies, and in your descendants all the nations of the earth shall find blessing - all this because you obeyed my command.NAB HEB 11:17

By faith Abraham, when put to the test, offered up Isaac;
he who had received the promises was ready to sacrifice his only son, of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your descendants be called.” He reasoned that God was able to raise from the dead, and so he received Isaac back as a symbol.NAB REV 14:12

This is what sustains the holy ones, who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
I heard a voice from heaven say to me: Write this down: Happy now are the dead who die in the Lord! The Spirit added, “Yes, they shall find rest from their labors, for their good works accompany them.”
 
Steven Merten:
Do you agree that St. Paul is quoted or refferenced ten to fifteen times more often than Jesus in the document?
The JDDJ is a document that addresses the theology of justification! Why wouldn’t we expect to see Paul quoted more than Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in such a document?
Do you agree that all the times Jesus tells us to obey the commandments if we wish to go to heaven, and those times Jesus tells us He will judge according to our conduct are withheld from the document?
Not really. There was no conspiracy to withhold the truth about what the Catholic Church teaches about justification.
Would you not agree that many believe the document to be ansering the question, “What must I do to go to heaven?”.
The JDDJ is a document about the theology of justification, not a document spelling out the details of moral theology.
Would you not agree that Jesus answers this question with “If you wish to enter into life, obey the commandments.”
If “this question” is “how are we justified”, then no, the answer to that question is not “obey the commandments”. Jesus reveals to the rich young man that he was NOT justified because he obeyed the Ten Commandments. The rich young man was still lacking something necessary for his justification. “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” … The young man said to him, “All these [commandments] I have observed; what do I still lack?”
Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect …”
 
**The young man was lacking HOLINESS, and since scripture tells us nothing unclean or unholy will enter into the Kingdom, it would imply one must deny self and follow God which are his laws and commandments, that is why Catholics have purgatory.

Sara**
 
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Matt16_18:
The JDDJ is a document that addresses the theology of justification! Why wouldn’t we expect to see Paul quoted more than Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in such a document?

Not really. There was no conspiracy to withhold the truth about what the Catholic Church teaches about justification.

The JDDJ is a document about the theology of justification, not a document spelling out the details of moral theology.If “this question” is “how are we justified”, then no, the answer to that question is not “obey the commandments”. Jesus reveals to the rich young man that he was NOT justified because he obeyed the Ten Commandments. The rich young man was still lacking something necessary for his justification.“Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” … The young man said to him, “All these [commandments] I have observed; what do I still lack?”

Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect …”
Hello Matt,

So by what you have said, you have decided that Jesus teaching that we will be judged by our conduct into heaven through Him or hell, is a lie?

NAB JOH 5:27
"The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned.
"

**NAB ROM 2:6 (St. Paul is speaking)

**

. . . when he will repay every man for what he has done: eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing right; wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
**NAB **REV 22:12

“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.
 
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Matt16_18:
Jesus reveals to the rich young man that he was NOT justified because he obeyed the Ten Commandments. The rich young man was still lacking something necessary for his justification.“Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” … The young man said to him, “All these [commandments] I have observed; what do I still lack?”
Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect …”
NAB MAT 19:16

“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied “You shall not kill”; ‘You shall not commit adultery’; ‘You shall not steal’; ‘You shall not bear false witness’; ‘Honor your father and mother’; and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
The young man said to him, “I have kept all these; what do I need to do further?’” Jesus told him, “If you seek perfection, go, sell your possessions, and give to the poor. You will then have treasure in heaven. Afterward, come back and follow me.”’ Hearing these words, the young man went away sad, for his possessions were many.

Hello Matt,
Here is the command from Jesus that the rich man refuses to obey. Jesus tells us that it is those who feed the poor who will be judged into heaven through Him.

NAB MAT 25:31

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another
, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ **And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."**LUK 16:19 The Rich Man and Lazarus

"There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’ Abraham replied, 'My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here,** whereas you are tormented. **
 
Hi Steven Merten,
I think we are saying the same thing…that the “work” of faith is expressed by our “works” of obedience and of love.
 
Yeah, I mean, Steve it sounds almost like you’re saying a Pelagian viewpoint that if we just keep the commandments and do good works we’ll go to Heaven based on that. I know that’s not what you’re saying, just like I know the others aren’t saying that works don’t matter.
 
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Catilieth:
Hi Steven Merten,
I think we are saying the same thing…that the “work” of faith is expressed by our “works” of obedience and of love.
Yes. I agree. Scriptures point to faith, love and obedience all being one in the same.
 
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Lazerlike42:
Yeah, I mean, Steve it sounds almost like you’re saying a Pelagian viewpoint that if we just keep the commandments and do good works we’ll go to Heaven based on that. I know that’s not what you’re saying, just like I know the others aren’t saying that works don’t matter.
Hello Lazerlike,

What I am saying is:

The way people go to heaven is through the blood of Jesus, the reason people go to heaven is because the love God and love for God is accomplished through free from the will of God obedience to the will of God.

Jesus, What Must I Do To Share In Everlasting Life?
 
Steven Merten:
Hello Matt,

So by what you have said, you have decided that Jesus teaching that we will be judged by our conduct into heaven through Him or hell, is a lie?
What I am saying it that the Catholic Church teaches that NO ONE merits either justification or eternal life because of their conduct. Justification and eternal life are unmerited free gifts gratuitously given to men by God.

Jesus acknowledged that the rich young man obeyed the Ten Commandments, but that obedience gave the rich young man no claim to eternal life in Heaven. We are obligated to obey God because he is our Lord. But our obedience to God in no way obligates God to give us eternal life in Heaven.
 
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Matt16_18:
What I am saying it that the Catholic Church teaches that NO ONE merits either justification or eternal life because of their conduct. Justification and eternal life are unmerited free gifts gratuitously given to men by God.

Jesus acknowledged that the rich young man obeyed the Ten Commandments, but that obedience gave the rich young man no claim to eternal life in Heaven. We are obligated to obey God because he is our Lord. But our obedience to God in no way obligates God to give us eternal life in Heaven.
Hello Matt,

So do you or do you not believe that Jesus will judge us through His blood into heaven or to hell based on our conduct as He says He will?

Can I confirm you as a no?

Can I confirm the you do not believe in what Jesus teaches us that He will judge us into heaven through Him or hell based on our conduct?
 
Steven Merten:
Can I confirm the you do not believe …
You can confirm me as believing this:Merit: The reward which God promises and gives to those who love him and by and by his grace perform good works. One cannot “merit” justification or eternal life, which are the **free gift ** of God; the source of any merit we have before God is due to the grace of Christ in us (2006).

Glossary of the Catechism of the Catholic Church
 
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Matt16_18:
You can confirm me as believing this:Merit: The reward which God promises and gives to those who love him and by and by his grace perform good works. One cannot “merit” justification or eternal life, which are the **free gift **of God; the source of any merit we have before God is due to the grace of Christ in us (2006).
Glossary of the Catechism of the Catholic Church
Hello Matt,

So we agree that no one deserves to go to heaven because of sin. The only way to heaven is through Jesus blood. People will be judged by Jesus and those who love God go to heaven through Him and those who do not love God go to hell. And scripture tells us that love for God is obedience to God.

Then we are in agreement that Jesus will judge us into heaven through His blood or hell based on our conduct?

INT 1JO 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands.
And his commands are not burdensome.INT JOH 14:15

"If you love me, you will obey what I command."
**INT JOH 14:23 **

Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”
NAB JOH 15:22

“If I had not come to them and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; now, however, their sin cannot be excused. To hate me is to hate my Father. Had I not performed such works among them as no one has ever done before, they would not be guilty of sin; but as it is, they have seen, and they go on hating me and my Father.
NAB DEU 5:9

“. . . you shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation but bestowing mercy, down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.

NAB EXO 20:5

“. . . you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation; but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.

NAB DEU 30:19

“I call heaven and earth today to witness against you:** I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life,** then, that you and your descendants may live, by loving the LORD, your God, heeding his voice, and holding fast to him.”

NAB DEU 30:15 The Choice before Israel.

Here then, I have today set before you life and prosperity, death and doom. If you obey the commandments of the LORD, your God, which I enjoin on you today, loving him, and walking in his ways, and keeping his commandments, statutes and decrees, you will live and grow numerous, and the LORD, your God, will bless you in the land you are entering to occupy.” NAB SIR 15:11 Man’s Free Will.

Say not: “It was God’s doing that I fell away”; for what he hates he does not do. Say not: “It was he who set me astray”; for he has no need of wicked man.
Abominable wickedness the LORD hates, he does not let it befall those who fear him. When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice. If you choose you can keep the commandments; it is loyalty to do his will. There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand. Before man are life and death, whichever he chooses shall be given him.
 
We are judged based on our conduct. Bad conduct gets us Hell. Good conduct gets us Heaven IN AND ONLY IF the good conduct is done out of and as a result of faith.
 
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Matt16_18:
You can confirm me as believing this:Merit: The reward which God promises and gives to those who love him and by and by his grace perform good works. One cannot “merit” justification or eternal life, which are the **free gift **of God; the source of any merit we have before God is due to the grace of Christ in us (2006).

Glossary of the Catechism of the Catholic Church
Hello Matt,

Do you believe that Jesus will judge people according to what Popes bind as mortal sin? Pope John Paul II upheld papal bindings that artificial birth control as mortal sin. Probubly 70 - 90 % of all western nation Catholics practice artificial birth control. Will Catholics be judged by Jesus into or out of heaven based partially on artificial birth control practice? Do those who do not practice artificial birth control “merit” eternal life more than those who practice artificial birth control?

Do you reject Church teachings and papal bindings which claim to effect whether or not a Catholic goes to heaven through the free gift of eternal life through Jesus?

Will Jesus judge people into heaven (through Him) or hell based partially on conduct that Popes bind as mortal sin?
 
Steven Merten:
Hello Matt,

Do you believe that Jesus will judge people according to what Popes bind as mortal sin? Pope John Paul II upheld papal bindings that artificial birth control as mortal sin. Probubly 70 - 90 % of all western nation Catholics practice artificial birth control. Will Catholics be judged by Jesus into or out of heaven based partially on artificial birth control practice? Do those who do not practice artificial birth control “merit” eternal life more than those who practice artificial birth control?

Do you reject Church teachings and papal bindings which claim to effect whether or not a Catholic goes to heaven through the free gift of eternal life through Jesus?

Will Jesus judge people into heaven (through Him) or hell based partially on conduct that Popes bind as mortal sin?
And probably 70 - 90% fornicate and another 50% commit adultery. The popes also teach that these are mortal sins and can land you in hell . The popes teach this because it is the truth, not it is the truth because the popes teach it. Until 193? all Protestant denominations acknowledged that contraception was intrinsically evil, then modern thought took hold of them and they changed their teachings. Contraception has be recognized as sinful since the time of the old testament (the sin of Oman-for which God struck Oman dead).
The question is not so much will someone go to hell because he rejected papal teaching, but will one go to hell for committing grievous sins. The answer is obvious…grievous sin causes one the loss of heaven(i realize that such sins are forgiven in confession, but only if one is repentant). The popes merely point us to the Truth which is eternal and unchanging.
Now, you may not like the Truth…few people really do. And as a Catholic, one cannot claim that they were never told the truth. Therefore, especially as a Catholic, to practice contraception is a grievous sin, a mortal sin, and those that contracept will be judged by their actions. To say otherwise is to say that you believe that we are judged according to those works we agree to do.
 
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