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Peter_J
Guest
Hmmm … I think it’s possible (albeit a little bit incongruous) for someone to favor the creation of an Ordinariate without personally having any desire to join it.
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steido01
Guest
Incongruous? Meh, maybe… I just don’t want to be the first penguin in the water, you know? Best to watch the others go first; too many unknowns to change something that’s currently working well enough. Should, God forbid, the LCMS ever start drifting toward the protestant mainstream doctrinally, I’d be the first to jump.
In any case, I noted in my previous post that I was only “warming” to the idea of an ordinariate, not that I would necessarily favor it. Sorry if I was not clear about it being an hypothetical situation.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
I think the Penguin is saying…“dude you really need to brush your teeth”
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Picky_Picky
Guest
And it was preceded by the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham in England.It is actually called The Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter. Many of us state Anglican Ordinariate but that is simply for conversation.
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Peter_J
Guest
I mean notwithstanding the fact that steido didn’t say *either *of those things (either that he favors the creation of an Ordinariate or that he would personally have any desire to join it) but only that he’s warming to the idea.
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hn160
Guest
The problem of Papal Infallibility is that it is a man-made rule that has no basis in Scripture that did not come about until 1870. This even caused a split in the Catholic Church where the Old Catholic Church broke with Rome.Then you are not open to a Lutheran Ordinariate if you’re against papal infallibility. The Catholics of the Anglican Use have no issue with it. If they did then I’m sure they would still be members of the Anglican Communion.
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commenter
Guest
Not everyone would agree it is a man-made “rule”; better to say some Christians interpret Mathew differently than Catholics
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Most doctrines of Catholicism are defined only when necessary, usually long after widespread practice and belief . Devotion to and belief in Mary’s Assumption was in place before 1950. Popes were teaching infallibly before 1870.
The need for an infallible teacher is more evident today than in 1870. Some Protestant denominations have abandoned morality and theology that their forefathers would have fought to defend. The most insidious threat is on the Canon of the New Testament. Some churches are quietly introducing additional gospels and other “scriptures” alongside the traditional 27 books of the NT, and they are changing material in the 27 books that they dislike. After all, if there’s no infallible teacher, there’s no infallible canon. So make your own.
This is the ultimate conclusion of “Sola Scriptura”. Thus, the need for an Ordinariate that is connected to the Magisterium, but can maintain one’s heritage.
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EvangelCatholic
Guest
Would you link some examples of abandoned morality and theology?
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KathleenGee
Guest
Reading posts here…the papacy became defined as infallible, a great necessity, as the Holy Father represents communion of faith with the bishops in communion with him. He is the one that represents our wholeness, this coming after the Schism and fragmentation of Christianity.
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hn160
Guest
But it caused more Schism in 1870.
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hn160
Guest
This is where The Power and Primacy of the Pope ( 1537 ) comes into play.
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MaryT777
Guest
You would submit to the authority of the Church and the Pope just like every other Catholic does. The Ordinariate would simply allow Lutherans to keep some of their "t"raditions and customs.
As my great aunt, who joined the Anglican Ordinariate, stated…I am 100% Catholic in communion with Rome but I still get to sing my wonderful Old English Hymns and kneel at the altar rails.
You would be Catholic 100% and under that authority of the Church just like I am.
That’s how I perceive it would be too!
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commenter
Guest
Acceptance of contraception, beginning in 1930s, by the great majority of Protestant churches
Acceptance of abortion on demand, by many mainline denominations; euthanasia too
Acceptance of divorce on demand, with remarriage - gradually over decades, by most denominations
Acceptance of same-sex marriage, by some mainline denominations; denial that homosexual actions are objectively immoral
Doctrinally, implicit denial of Trinitarian formula, to some extent, by a few mainlines; for instance, baptism in name of Creator, Savior, and Sanctifier, denial of Father and Son.
The Unitarians, Protestant in 1870, have moved away from Theism.
Some mainlines have moved away from the inerrancy of Scripture, or that is now only an option. The unique role of Christ as Savior is denied, or made only an option.
In terms of the canon of the New Testament, look at the 2013 book The New New Testament, edited by Hal Taussig, with major (name removed by moderator)ut by denominational leaders, including the President of the UCC, Methodist bishops, etc. It changes the language of some of the familiar 27 books, and adds other books among them, as equal “scriptures”. This will be the coming battleground, between churches that hold to the traditional 27 books, and those that put the gospel of Mary on a level with Mathew. Religious leaders took a VOTE to decide which books were scripture for this canon. Other votes will yield different results, adding other books, maybe dropping some of Paul’s epistles.
I think the forerunners of the UCC, and Methodists for instance, would regard the abandonment of the canon as a doctrinal breach.
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pablope
Guest
Who were those who separated?
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EvangelCatholic
Guest
You broad-brush Protestantism when this is a thread on a Lutheran ordinariate in current times.
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hn160
Guest
The Old Catholic Church.
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EvangelCatholic
Guest
The doors of holy Church are opening wider to let the light of heaven shine in. This is a great time to be a Lutheran or one can convert to the Church of Rome. It is conspicuous, however that liberal Lutheran and Anglican have hospitality and prayer with the Holy See going back a long time.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
This is a bit confusing. Can you explain?
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