Will Protestants be surprised when Jesus judges them according to their deeds?

[MichaelP3]

I would say many of us would be very surprised when that time comes… but is that really what it would be about at all “when that time comes”?

 

[JonNC]

Is ELCA reading the Scriptures through the lens of the confessions in accordance with the church?

No! Are Old Catholics abiding by the CCC?

 

[MichaelP3]

No! Are Old Catholics abiding by the CCC?

Or Polish National Catholics?

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

No! Are Old Catholics abiding by the CCC?

Or Polish National Catholics?

How about these Catholics?

Home - Women's Ordination Conference

I forgot about these:

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/homosexuality-is-still-haunting-catholic-seminaries

Glass houses and stones, etc.

Now that said, none of these diminish the important and tremendous role the Catholic Church plays in Christianity and the world. God bless the Catholic Church

 

[dallas_r]

i guess lol

 

[jlhargus]

Jamie59d
Would you be surprised if you’re wrong? These types of fire brimstone, we’re right/you’re wrong/repent threads are rather trollish I must presume. This is not the way to win over hearts and minds. Some of my best friends are Jewish, Atheists and Muslims and if there is a Heaven I know they’ll be there.
[/quote]

What are you trying to win over hearts for, relativism? On what knowledge do you base your statement; “if there is a Heaven I know they’ll be there?”

 

[ATraveller]

There are, purported Catholics, who disagree with the Catholic Church. But they are merely modern day Luthers and Calvins who will discover in the end

Modern Luthers and Calvins is a bit of a stretch. It can be argued Luther and Calvin were much closer to the Catholic Church than many modern day Protestants like the Real Presence (I wrote closer) and appreciation of the Early Church Fathers’ works. Oddly enough, Luther and Calvin were and still are blamed for dividing Western Christianity but they may actually be part of the solution bring the many denominations closer.

Maybe a separate thread should be started. It was interesting to look up and see what the thread is supposed to be about.

 

[De_Maria]

I didn’t actually. But I do agree that historically Lutherans have used the confessions as guiding and authoritative interpretations of Scripture, which is the normative rule of faith and life. However, as we all know, some Lutheran denominations have more stricter conformity to the Confessions than others.

Did Luther start one, or many Lutheran denominations?

They don’t have the right of private interpretation on issues that their church closes off to debate, …

I call you on that one. Because, if anything was closed off to debate, it was the abominable sin of homosexuality. Yet, there they went.

This seems chaotic, but its not surprising. When the first Lutherans got to America, there was no Lutheran churches or hierarchies or institutions. They had to build these, and different Lutherans built their own institutions among their own ethnic groups.

It was the same with the Catholic Church. And yet, there is still one Catholic Church. And many Lutheran denominations.

 

[ltwin]

Did Luther start one, or many Lutheran denominations?

Luther didn’t found denominations. He started a theological reformation, but he never became in any sense a pope. He only exercised formal influence in the territorial Church in the Electorate of Saxony.

I call you on that one. Because, if anything was closed off to debate, it was the abominable sin of homosexuality. Yet, there they went.

I agree with you, yet if you close a door you can also reopen it.

It was the same with the Catholic Church. And yet, there is still one Catholic Church. And many Lutheran denominations.

No it wasn’t. Protestantism organized on the basis of a national church-Church of England, Church of Sweden, Church of Scotland, Church of Norway, Church of Denmark, etc. Catholicism was organized on an international model.

 

[De_Maria]

Luther didn’t found denominations. He started a theological reformation, but he never became in any sense a pope. He only exercised formal influence in the territorial Church in the Electorate of Saxony.

I’ve always been taught that Luther founded Lutheranism.

Martin Luther: Founder of Lutheranism. Martin Luther (1483–1546) is one of the most important figures in the history of Christianity (a religion founded by Jesus of Nazareth, also called Jesus Christ).
Martin Luther: Founder of Lutheranism - Dictionary definition of Martin …
www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias.../martin-luther-founder-lutheranism

So, this is news to me. Are you saying that Luther intended for there to be hundreds of denominations? Or did he intend for there to be only two. His and the Catholic Church?

I agree with you, yet if you close a door you can also reopen it.

That goes over my head.

No it wasn’t. Protestantism organized on the basis of a national church-Church of England, Church of Sweden, Church of Scotland, Church of Norway, Church of Denmark, etc. Catholicism was organized on an international model.

Somehow or other, I thought this conversation had dwindled down to Lutheranism. But, if it didn’t, are those all confessional churches? And if they are, how did they begin to interpret the confessions differently if they did not have the right of private interpretation and sola Scriptura?

 

[ltwin]

I’ve always been taught that Luther founded Lutheranism.

He taught. His teachings became Lutheranism. He did not found new church institutions outside of Saxony. Other Evangelicals (his name for Lutheranism) elsewhere in Germany created territorial churches that adopted his confessions.

Somehow or other, I thought this conversation had dwindled down to Lutheranism. But, if it didn’t, are those all confessional churches? And if they are, how did they begin to interpret the confessions differently if they did not have the right of private interpretation and sola Scriptura?

The national church model was followed by other Protestants. The English Reformers established the Church of England (the Anglicans), the Scottish Reformers established the Church of Scotland (the Presbyterians), the Dutch Reformers established the Dutch Reformed Church. The Lutherans in Germany and Scandinavia established several territorial churches.

When Protestants started coming to America, they brought their national religions with them. The Scots brought Presbyterianism. The English brought Anglicanism (which became the Episcopal Church). The Dutch brought the Reformed Church with them. And the various kinds of Lutheran immigrants brought their native Lutheran traditions with them as well.

Once again, Protestantism organized itself along territorial lines. There was never a desire to establish a Protestant papacy. So, unlike Catholic immigrants, Protestant immigrants were never going to establish an “American Protestant Church” because they were all coming from territorial churches back in Europe.

 

[MichaelP3]

’I’ve always been taught that Luther founded Lutheranism.

REALLY?

Gets me back to being taught things?

Okay but this is interesting? Who taught you this?

You have google?

 

[De_Maria]

I left the ELCA two decades over issues similar to these,

I guess I missed this before. On what did you base your decision to leave? Private interpretation? The confessions?

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

I left the ELCA two decades over issues similar to these,

I guess I missed this before. On what did you base your decision to leave? Private interpretation? The confessions?

Read what you yourself observed. When “social justice”, which has nothing to do with Justice much less Christian charity, takes precedent over the word of God, what is one to do? I did not leave the RLCA, the ELCA left Lutheranism

 

[IWantGod]

In all seriousness. No matter what religion you are. Who can look in God’s face and say they’re worthy?

 

[JonNC]

I’ve always been taught that Luther founded Lutheranism.

Luther never held an office higher than priest and professor. He was, indeed, very influential, yet he did not himself write either the Augsburg Confession or the Apology.
Further, his theological influence is primarily limited to the evangelical Catholic churches and individuals who signed on to Augsburg. The other Reformation movement, Zwingli and Calvin, not to mention the Anabaptists, rejected essential elements of Lutheranism, sacraments, infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, confession and Holy Absolution, and the real presence.

 

[ltwin]

In all seriousness. No matter what religion you are. Who can look in God’s face and say they’re worthy?

No Protestant claims that they are worthy. We believe that Christ is worthy. It is not in our own worth that we place our hope but in Christ and his righteousness and holiness and worthiness.

 

[De_Maria]

Luther never held an office higher than priest and professor. He was, indeed, very influential, yet he did not himself write either the Augsburg Confession or the Apology.
Further, his theological influence is primarily limited to the evangelical Catholic churches and individuals who signed on to Augsburg. The other Reformation movement, Zwingli and Calvin, not to mention the Anabaptists, rejected essential elements of Lutheranism, sacraments, infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, confession and Holy Absolution, and the real presence.

And you still don’t think that Protestants believe in private interpretation of Scripture alone?

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

JonNC:

I left the ELCA two decades over issues similar to these,

I guess I missed this before. On what did you base your decision to leave? Private interpretation? The confessions?

Read what you yourself observed. When “social justice”, which has nothing to do with Justice much less Christian charity, takes precedent over the word of God, what is one to do? I did not leave the RLCA, the ELCA left Lutheranism

And you didn’t go with it. Sounds like private interpretation to me.

 

[JonNC]

And you still don’t think that Protestants believe in private interpretation of Scripture alone?

Which Protestants? Protestant doesn’t define a communion. I’m am absolutely certain that some communities practice private interpretation.