Will the Church die?

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What do you make of this prophecy in the Catechism and how does this square with the ‘gates of hell’ prophecy of Christ Jesus?

CCC 677: “The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.”
 
Hi JoeJ,
Just wanted you to see one of the rules about posting in the prayer forum. They can all be seen in Klara Collins thread above the prayer intentions titled “rules of the board”. There are other forums where you can post your question and get numerous answers as it looks like it would be an interesting thread.

KEEP THE TOPIC PRAYER INTENTIONS & PRAYERS, ONLY
The Prayer Intentions board is not intended to be used as a place for debate, discussion, or advice.

Have a blest day!
:blessyou:
 
The Church will survive to the end of the world, after which she will not be necessary in her current form.
 
The Church is a Spiritual Body composed of earthly human bodies.

It will last as long as human life upon the earth, but as was stated, will not be needed in eternity.

ICXC NIKA
 
JoeJPurnell said:
What do you make of this prophecy in the Catechism and how does this square with the ‘gates of hell’ prophecy of Christ Jesus?

CCC 677: “The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.”
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I’m not sure how you equate the idea of "failing, death, destruction, hell overcoming the church, etc…

With the idea of entering into the glory of heaven.
 
JoeJPurnell said:
What do you make of this prophecy in the Catechism and how does this square with the ‘gates of hell’ prophecy of Christ Jesus?

CCC 677: “The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.”
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CCC 677 is talking about the end of time as when Jesus said “I will be with you until the end of time”
 
But the Catechism says this must take place before Christ’s second coming; before the end of time. PP 675 “Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial … when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.”
 
JoeJPurnell said:
But the Catechism says this must take place before Christ’s second coming; before the end of time. PP 675 “Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial.”
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In that time, a lot of folks will die; but the Church will remain.

ICXC NIKA
 
What, then, do you suppose the death of the Church will be like as described here in the Catechism?
 
Jon_S said:
I’m not sure how you equate the idea of "failing, death, destruction, hell overcoming the church, etc…

With the idea of entering into the glory of heaven.
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Jesus’ promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church seems to mean to many of us Catholics that she will never die. I’m wondering how that squares with this prophecy in the Catechism that says she will die before Christ’s second coming.
 
GEddie said:
The Church is a Spiritual Body composed of earthly human bodies.

It will last as long as human life upon the earth, but as was stated, will not be needed in eternity.

ICXC NIKA
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???
This does not sound right to me. The Church is not just made of earthy human bodies, it is the Communion of Saints, made of the Church Militant, the Church Suffering, and the Church Triumphant.
946 After confessing “the holy catholic Church,” the Apostles’ Creed adds “the communion of saints.” In a certain sense this article is a further explanation of the preceding: "What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?"479 The communion of saints is the Church.
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So there will be no Church in heaven? I think that is likely wrong. All people in heaven will continue to be members of the Church Triumphant.
 
JoeJPurnell said:
Jesus’ promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church seems to mean to many of us Catholics that she will never die. I’m wondering how that squares with this prophecy in the Catechism that says she will die before Christ’s second coming.
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The catechism doesn’t say that.

It says it will pass through a final trial. This would be the final judgement and transition to the new heaven and new earth.

The church is composed of both those in heaven (church triumphant) and those on earth (church militant). The church triumphant will never die, and the church militant will at some point cease transitioning all the saved on earth to the church triumphant.
 
The final trial will be during the reign of the antichrist, who will forbid the celebration of the Mass. The antichrist will be in Jerusalem and appear to be the fulfillment of the Messiah, until the Jews realize he isn’t by a sign (which they always seek) which then converts them instead to Jesus Christ the True Messiah and hence the Catholic Church.

The time is short (3 1/2 years) but it will be rough for anyone Catholic.
 
Jon_S said:
The catechism doesn’t say that.

It says it will pass through a final trial. This would be the final judgement and transition to the new heaven and new earth.

The church is composed of both those in heaven (church triumphant) and those on earth (church militant). The church triumphant will never die, and the church militant will at some point cease transitioning all the saved on earth to the church triumphant.
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It says, “she will follow her Lord in his death”. Your argument is with the Catechism.
 
JoeJPurnell said:
It says, “she will follow her Lord in his death”. Your argument is with the Catechism.
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Jesus did not die permanently. he rose again in glory.

I’m not sure why you wish to have the church die someday??

The church on earth will transition to the church triumphant, so if you really want to say the church on earth does, fine, everything on earth will die, but the church (the body of Christ) will live forever.
 
Jon_S said:
Jesus did not die permanently. he rose again in glory.

I’m not sure why you wish to have the church die someday??

The church on earth will transition to the church triumphant, so if you really want to say the church on earth does, fine, everything on earth will die, but the church (the body of Christ) will live forever.
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A little advice for you: the first person to make an argument personal, is usually the one who knows he’s in the weaker position. So try to avoid personal presumptions about knowing what other people wish and want at all costs and you’ll earn more respect from those you’re discussing the Truth with.

So you’re saying that the Church that follows her Lord in His death is only the Church on earth? I’m going to have to discern that, but it sounds correct to me. The antichrist definitely refers to an earthly scenario. Yeah, let me pray about that for a few weeks, and if something else comes up, I’ll get back to you. You’ve given me something to ponder.

Thanks, God bless.
 
JoeJPurnell said:
A little advice for you: the first person to make an argument personal, is usually the one who knows he’s in the weaker position. So try to avoid personal presumptions about knowing what other people wish and want at all costs and you’ll earn more respect from those you’re discussing the Truth with.

So you’re saying that the Church that follows her Lord in His death is only the Church on earth? I’m going to have to discern that, but it sounds correct to me. The antichrist definitely refers to an earthly scenario. Yeah, let me pray about that for a few weeks, and if something else comes up, I’ll get back to you. You’ve given me something to ponder.

Thanks, God bless.
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Of course only the earthly church follows into death. Only earthly human beings can die!

ICXC NIKA.
 
I got an epiphany last night. The Church Militant is the only part of the Church that hasn’t already followed her Lord in His death. The Church Triumphant has already followed our Lord in His death and so has the Church Suffering. They just haven’t followed Him yet in His resurrection.

So when the Church Militant dies, then it can rightly be said that the whole Church - in her entirety, will in fact have followed her Lord in His death before His second coming so that the Church in her entirety can, likewise follow Him in His resurrection. That satisfies everything in my mind. Does it make sense to you?
 
JoeJPurnell said:
I got an epiphany last night. The Church Militant is the only part of the Church that hasn’t already followed her Lord in His death. The Church Triumphant has already followed our Lord in His death and so has the Church Suffering. They just haven’t followed Him yet in His resurrection.

So when the Church Militant dies, then it can rightly be said that the whole Church - in her entirety, will in fact have followed her Lord in His death before His second coming so that the Church in her entirety can, likewise follow Him in His resurrection. That satisfies everything in my mind. Does it make sense to you?
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:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::tiphat::tiphat::dancing::dancing:

Beautifully Stated.
 
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