Will the Church of England die?

[Picky_Picky]

I do not recall saying that Rowan Williams made a heterodox statement. Please demonstrate where I did this. Then I will make any appropriate retractions, corrections and apologies.

The point I believe I was trying to make was that Drs Williams and Jenkins were both making convoluted statements, which the likes of me find far too complex to understand.

I apologise. I misunderstood you. That’s true enough. I suppose the difference between the two cases is that Williams was speaking to a bunch of religious academics in their own language, Jenkins was speaking to a television audience, a circumstance in which his responsibility I suppose was to speak firstly as a priest.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

They represent a current problem in Anglicanism. In some places.

That was indeed how Hank thought; as did all. The idea of a divorce was unknown. Not that a marriage couldn’t be merely ignored, but a valid marriage could not be dissolved. Except by way of proving it an invalid marriage sacramentally. Hence the wide-spread net of possible impediments that were in play by Henry’s day. Henry played the game as it was meant to be played, with a causa as good as was generally used. But the whole system, being an intertwining of politics and theology (as was most things, in the day) responded by working as it was designed to do: consider the political impact as part of the decision.

So - decree of nullity.

Henry didn’t appeal to the Pope. Katherine did. As was her right.

I appreciate your appreciation, for true.

GKC

Henry did appeal to the Pope via his Archbishop Cranmer in the beginning, as did Katherine of Aragon… The Lord had the last laugh, six wives, his only son by Jane Seymour died a few months after Henry as he was very young, hence his daughter Princess Mary then Princess Elizabeth came on the throne, no sons or rather no Tudor Sons on the Throne and look what he did to England to get a son, but got NONE The Lord showed his displeasure , see how the mighty have fallen. Every Monastery, Church, Convent levelled to the ground, the holy things belonging to the Altar given and sold, vestments torn and slashed. Look at all the Holy Priests trained in France went over to England to serve to the last of the Catholics and also trying to bring back lapsed Catholics who swore an oath to Henry as head of the Church, the priests were hanged, drawn and quartered, which meant they were hanged and then taken down alive, there hearts pulled out of there chest, and chopped up in front of them and then knives stabbed all over them, all this because they were loyal Catholics to Rome. Blessed be they.

 

[GKC]

Henry did appeal to the Pope via his Archbishop Cranmer in the beginning, as did Katherine of Aragon… The Lord had the last laugh, six wives, his only son by Jane Seymour died a few months after Henry as he was very young, hence his daughter Princess Mary then Princess Elizabeth came on the throne, no sons or rather no Tudor Sons on the Throne and look what he did to England to get a son, but got NONE The Lord showed his displeasure , see how the mighty have fallen. Every Monastery, Church, Convent levelled to the ground, the holy things belonging to the Altar given and sold, vestments torn and slashed. Look at all the Holy Priests trained in France went over to England to serve to the last of the Catholics and also trying to bring back lapsed Catholics who swore an oath to Henry as head of the Church, the priests were hanged, drawn and quartered, which meant they were hanged and then taken down alive, there hearts pulled out of there chest, and chopped up in front of them and then knives stabbed all over them, all this because they were loyal Catholics to Rome. Blessed be they.

No, Hank first tried to keep it within the kingdom. The Archbishop of Canterbury, as any diocesan bishop, had the authority to rule on the case. He did send an emissary to Rome, but not to try his case, Katherine appealed the petition to Rome, two years later.

Eventually, he got Edward.

GKC

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

Incorrect Henry own son died a few months after him, his daughter Princess Mary by Catherine of Aragon came to the throne and then died a few years later of a brain tumour, his daughter Princess Elizabeth ( the last of the Tudor’s) came on the throne who was the Mistress and eventually the second wife Ann Boleyn whom Henry split from Rome for and married her when she did not produce a son first go he cut of her head and went onto wife three, this went on and on with six wives giving Henry no son to inherit hence his two daughters came to the throne, and because she did not marry and have any known children ( some say she did but got them adopted) she then found her cousin in Scotland a threat to her throne Mary Queen of the Scots, and she had a son and Elizabeth had her head cut of and it was her son came on the throne after Elizabeth died he was called Edward, while Mary Queen of the Scots was a devout Catholic when she was executed Elizabeth had him brought him up in the Reformation Church.

 

[Bergon]

Incorrect Henry own son died a few months after him

Incorrect, Edward VI reigned from Henry VIII’s death in 1547 until his own death in 1553; he reigned just over six years.

Princess Mary by Catherine of Aragon came to the throne and then died a few years later

Mary I reigned for just over fives years: 19.VII.1553 to 17.XI.1558.

 

[GKC]

Incorrect Henry own son died a few months after him, his daughter Princess Mary by Catherine of Aragon came to the throne and then died a few years later of a brain tumour, his daughter Princess Elizabeth ( the last of the Tudor’s) came on the throne who was the Mistress and eventually the second wife Ann Boleyn whom Henry split from Rome for and married her when she did not produce a son first go he cut of her head and went onto wife three, this went on and on with six wives giving Henry no son to inherit hence his two daughters came to the throne, and because she did not marry and have any known children ( some say she did but got them adopted) she then found her cousin in Scotland a threat to her throne Mary Queen of the Scots, and she had a son and Elizabeth had her head cut of and it was her son came on the throne after Elizabeth died he was called Edward, while Mary Queen of the Scots was a devout Catholic when she was executed Elizabeth had him brought him up in the Reformation Church.

Where do you get this stuff? It’s embarrassing.

Are you familiar with Edward VI? Who preceded Mary, as King? I ask, with no great expectations. And if so, just who do you think were his father and mother? And when do you think Edward VI died?

I would ask just who you think followed Elizabeth to the throne, but it’s probably a lost cause.

I continue to suggest reading some history. And I don’t mean web sites. Do recall that the best book I know of (and I own many on the subject) is HENRY VIII, by J. J. Scarisbrick. He, you will recall, is a Roman Catholic. It’s a long book, but you could take it slowly. I can’t say it would help, but it might. And it’s got a small ironic touch in it. I can suggest other books, On James VI/I, Edward VI, Mary, Queen of Scots, and Mary Tudor. And on the whole Tudor period. But to what end?

Eventually, I may stop this. I can’t see any improvement.

GKC

 

[GKC]

Incorrect, Edward VI reigned from Henry VIII’s death in 1547 until his own death in 1553; he reigned just over six years.

Mary I reigned for just over fives years: 19.VII.1553 to 17.XI.1558.

Edward was on the throne right at 6 1/2 years, yes.

I wish you luck with this.

GKC

 

[Picky_Picky]

Incorrect Henry own son died a few months after him, his daughter Princess Mary by Catherine of Aragon came to the throne and then died a few years later of a brain tumour, his daughter Princess Elizabeth ( the last of the Tudor’s) came on the throne who was the Mistress and eventually the second wife Ann Boleyn whom Henry split from Rome for and married her when she did not produce a son first go he cut of her head and went onto wife three, this went on and on with six wives giving Henry no son to inherit hence his two daughters came to the throne, and because she did not marry and have any known children ( some say she did but got them adopted) she then found her cousin in Scotland a threat to her throne Mary Queen of the Scots, and she had a son and Elizabeth had her head cut of and it was her son came on the throne after Elizabeth died he was called Edward, while Mary Queen of the Scots was a devout Catholic when she was executed Elizabeth had him brought him up in the Reformation Church.

Moreover Mary QofS’s son was called James, not Edward, and he was not brought up by Elizabeth, but by his Scottish lords: he was King of Scotland, and had been since the Scots made Mary abdicate.

 

[GKC]

Moreover Mary QofS’s son was called James, not Edward, and he was not brought up by Elizabeth, but by his Scottish lords: he was King of Scotland, and had been since the Scots made Mary abdicate.

I wish you luck, too.

GKC

 

[Bergon]

I wish you luck with this.

Thank you! We can but try

 

[GKC]

Thank you! We can but try

I’ve tried with the poster in question before.

GKC

 

[Bergon]

I’ve tried with the poster in question before.

GKC

I infer with no success.

 

[GKC]

I infer with no success.

None I could point to.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

Didn’t it happen, on some other recent thread, that a discussion of Mary Tudor abruptly changed over to Mary Queen of Scots, as though she were the same person?

 

[GKC]

Didn’t it happen, on some other recent thread, that a discussion of Mary Tudor abruptly changed over to Mary Queen of Scots, as though she were the same person?

I think so, but can’t recall the details.

GKC

 

[Bergon]

Didn’t it happen, on some other recent thread, that a discussion of Mary Tudor abruptly changed over to Mary Queen of Scots, as though she were the same person?

In my experience Mary I (Tudor) and Mary, Queen of Scots are often confused by people

 

[GKC]

In my experience Mary I (Tudor) and Mary, Queen of Scots are often confused by people

And people are confused by them.

GKC

 

[Bergon]

And people are confused by them.

GKC

That too

 

[saddmister]

What is bad for the Christian Community is bad for the Holy Catholic Church: it is not good that Christianity is besieged not less from within as from without.

 

[Picky_Picky]

In my experience Mary I (Tudor) and Mary, Queen of Scots are often confused by people

Well, perhaps they WERE the same person — after all, what are the odds against two queens, both called Mary, in one small island. Perhaps it was a CONSPIRACY by Walsingham and several men called Cecil something. Perhaps we could get Dan Brown to write a book about it.