Will the Church of England die?

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Well, perhaps they WERE the same person
One of the dukes (I forget which one) wrote a book about that – something about how he never saw them together and one would always leave before the other came into the room. Also, he said he never saw Mary Tudor without her glasses on.
 
Well, perhaps they WERE the same person — after all, what are the odds against two queens, both called Mary, in one small island. Perhaps it was a CONSPIRACY by Walsingham and several men called Cecil something. Perhaps we could get Dan Brown to write a book about it.
I am always suspicious of all the Thomas’s in Henry VIII’s court.

GKC
 
Mary I and Mary, Queen of Scots the same woman? Poor Philip II must have been confused. I wonder then which death she suffered: the one where she kept her head or the one where she lost it. I suppose it depends on whether we’re discussing history or fiction. If we’re going to discuss fiction I shall opt out if we’re stooping to the level of Dan Brown. I suspect the Stuart pretenders will be upset if Mary Stuart is thought to be also Mary Tudor.
 
I agree with you to a point. I think someone with that level of knowledge would know they were different. Most people refer to Mary I of England as Mary Tudor rather than Mary I. Similarly Mary I of Scotland it most frequently referred to as Mary, Queen of Scots. I suppose never having had the confusion it’s difficult to understand how others are confused.
 
The players:

T. More

T. Wolsey

T. Cromwell

T. Howard

T. Cranmer

T. Wriothesley

Who wouldn’t be dubious.

GKC
Yeah, suspicious. Mind you, I don’t know what they were up to, but none of them really ended up a personal winner exactly – well, apart from Howard, of course; the Howards just go on for ever. And whatever the conspiracy was they cunningly spread themselves among the parties, didn’t they? Of course they could all have been one Thomas, but that involves even more, and more drastic, reincarnations than the Mary/Mary theory.
 
Yeah, suspicious. Mind you, I don’t know what they were up to, but none of them really ended up a personal winner exactly – well, apart from Howard, of course; the Howards just go on for ever. And whatever the conspiracy was they cunningly spread themselves among the parties, didn’t they? Of course they could all have been one Thomas, but that involves even more, and more drastic, reincarnations than the Mary/Mary theory.
Derek Wilson, IN THE LION’S COURT, cites a parallel saying to the usual menomic recited as to Hank’s wives. The T’s call for even more of a mortuary mantra:

Died, beheaded, beheaded,
Self-slaughtered, burned, survived.

GKC
 
The Anglican Church in the First world is likely to fade away over the next century or two- in the USA the schism that formed the Anglican Church in North America from departing members of the Episcopal Church actually strengthened this segment at least temporarily

in the USA ECUSA is in trouble and we know it-we do not look to the Church of England really at all -if they boot out ECUSA from the Anglican Community however another shot is fired into the Corpus of ECUSA

Most of us like being Episcopaleans and will likely go down with the ship here in the USA
the fate of the Church of England will matter little-

In the 3rd world the Anglican Church is booming -interestingly it is booming in Ireland-the Anglican Church has always been a refuge for Catholics over the centuries-some come and stay -some come and go back-just as people Swim the Tiber -people also belong to the Thames Swim Team-unfortunately upon arising out of the water in the coming decades they may find ECUSA closed
 
The Anglican Church in the First world is likely to fade away over the next century or two- in the USA the schism that formed the Anglican Church in North America from departing members of the Episcopal Church actually strengthened this segment at least temporarily

in the USA ECUSA is in trouble and we know it-we do not look to the Church of England really at all -if they boot out ECUSA from the Anglican Community however another shot is fired into the Corpus of ECUSA

Most of us like being Episcopaleans and will likely go down with the ship here in the USA
the fate of the Church of England will matter little-

In the 3rd world the Anglican Church is booming -interestingly it is booming in Ireland-the Anglican Church has always been a refuge for Catholics over the centuries-some come and stay -some come and go back-just as people Swim the Tiber -people also belong to the Thames Swim Team-unfortunately upon arising out of the water in the coming decades they may find ECUSA closed
You have my sympathy.

GKC
 
There seems to be a contest between the Church of England and the Catholic Church, to see which one will close down first. I think that the Church of England will go first, because it has not seen the growth in Africa and South America that the Catholic Church has. Both Church’s no longer have any significant influence in most of Europe. I suppose the Catholic Church still has some influence in the US. But then even in the US, the majority of Catholics ignore the Catechism with respect to birth control and adultery. The advice of the bishops was ignored in the last presidential election by the majority of voting Catholics. These facts do not predict much of a future for the Catholic Church in the US, especially considering that priests are retiring at a 10 to 1 rate to newly ordained priests.
 
There seems to be a contest between the Church of England and the Catholic Church, to see which one will close down first. I think that the Church of England will go first, because it has not seen the growth in Africa and South America that the Catholic Church has. Both Church’s no longer have any significant influence in most of Europe. I suppose the Catholic Church still has some influence in the US. But then even in the US, the majority of Catholics ignore the Catechism with respect to birth control and adultery. The advice of the bishops was ignored in the last presidential election by the majority of voting Catholics. These facts do not predict much of a future for the Catholic Church in the US, especially considering that priests are retiring at a 10 to 1 rate to newly ordained priests.
epan how did your arrive at the figures? I’ve heard much on this and have seen various statistics. Here’s a couple for example.

cathnewsusa.com/2012/03/vatican-statistics-show-catholic-growth

This one is more suspect, it compares the 70’s to this decade.

cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/requestedchurchstats.html

The Catholic Church has always had influence in the US, and the influence it does have becomes known through those who pay strict attention to its teaching. And by our Christian brothers out here who indeed have the good sense to discern its teachings though not in communion. The idea that Catholics in the Church during their journey are conflicted with a teaching, only means they are still learning, self evident, missed is the Biblical verse of “be slow to speak and quick to listen”. I would suggest most come to realize in the end they were simply wrong in the fact they were being taught and not teaching, though perhaps by incompatible teachers. Its like this, the numbers are not reflective in this sense how the Church permeates the conscience in the long run of its members, [within and without] and who wavered in areas such as birth control etc. While their is no doubt a concern for the path, and souls, it can’t be ignored that this ingrained teaching and appeal to the conscience, indeed surface’s, and often in critical moments. That an opposed view in the social transition of history wins favor in a time period, isn’t uncommon or unprecedented.

Those who in pride insist on being proven wrong, I pray for them, they get the test first then understand the lesson later. They get a bit full of themselves and forget to take their shoes off and remember that they are on holy ground.

I see rebirth in its infancy. I see children and young adults today who have a very similar view to what I witnessed prior to V-II and this difficult period we all went through and in what I believe we are coming out of. I see the fire of inspiration spreading and know that it only takes a few to help it to grow. The 22-million lapsed Catholics, no they won’t all be back, but I do see many returning, and others I hear that familiar recitation of the conscience “I need to get back to Church”. The chain of command in Christs Church will remain, never has it not, regardless of weak links, those are expected as are those sent by the Lord. We just don’t know where or when one or the other will manifest.
 
If it dies, it probably won’t die because of accepting same-sex marriage.
In fact, accepting same-sex marriage may make it stronger and larger in number.

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I’m willing to ride money on that not being true.

As a church makes itself closer and closer to the pop culture around it, the inevitable question people ask themselves is “Why bother at all?” Liberalized Christianity in the 20th century flopped, and a lot of its membership comes from people from more conservative denominations that want something more liberal, but aren’t comfortable abandoning organized religion entirely.

If there’s going to be any growth within the UK, I expect it to be with Islam, Catholicism, and maybe more conservative evangelicalism.
 
not as a trend or as the latest fashion…especially since same-sex couples have been around for thousands of years
What historical documented history of Church do they have? And one which evolved from where to what?
 
If it dies, it probably won’t die because of accepting same-sex marriage.
In fact, accepting same-sex marriage may make it stronger and larger in number.

.
The Church of England doesn’t accept same sex “marriage”. Same sex “weddings” cannot take place in the Church of England. The same applies to the Church in Wales. What the Church of England did was give up hope that the UK Parliament would pass a law making same sex marriage legal. It is now moot whether they object because the proposed law is now law. However, the law ‘protects’ churches and no church, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, etc. have to provide same sex “weddings”. I believe they will only be available via civil ceremonies.
 
So…is the OP wondering if the Church of England will now “die” because they feel a lack of hope that Parliament would pass that law?

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I can’t know what the OP is wondering.

There seemed to me to be a misunderstanding pervading the thread. It could be that I’ve mis-read what was being said.

The impression I formed was that some thought the Church of England endorsed same sex marriage. It is my understanding that they are against same sex marriage. They didn’t want Parliament to legalise same sex marriage.

It is also to be understood that the legislation exempts all religious ceremonies. People of the same sex can only marry in a civil ceremony.
 
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