Will the Church of England die?

[Indifferently]

Where do you get this stuff? It’s embarrassing.

Are you familiar with Edward VI? Who preceded Mary, as King? I ask, with no great expectations. And if so, just who do you think were his father and mother? And when do you think Edward VI died?

I would ask just who you think followed Elizabeth to the throne, but it’s probably a lost cause.

I continue to suggest reading some history. And I don’t mean web sites. Do recall that the best book I know of (and I own many on the subject) is HENRY VIII, by J. J. Scarisbrick. He, you will recall, is a Roman Catholic. It’s a long book, but you could take it slowly. I can’t say it would help, but it might. And it’s got a small ironic touch in it. I can suggest other books, On James VI/I, Edward VI, Mary, Queen of Scots, and Mary Tudor. And on the whole Tudor period. But to what end?

Eventually, I may stop this. I can’t see any improvement.

GKC

I rather enjoy GKC being severe. Not sure why.

 

[GKC]

I rather enjoy GKC being severe. Not sure why.

I’d call it grumpy. The fit takes me on occasion.

GKC

 

[epan]

epan how did your arrive at the figures? I’ve heard much on this and have seen various statistics. Here’s a couple for example.

cathnewsusa.com/2012/03/vatican-statistics-show-catholic-growth

This one is more suspect, it compares the 70’s to this decade.

cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/requestedchurchstats.html

The Catholic Church has always had influence in the US, and the influence it does have becomes known through those who pay strict attention to its teaching. And by our Christian brothers out here who indeed have the good sense to discern its teachings though not in communion. The idea that Catholics in the Church during their journey are conflicted with a teaching, only means they are still learning, self evident, missed is the Biblical verse of “be slow to speak and quick to listen”. I would suggest most come to realize in the end they were simply wrong in the fact they were being taught and not teaching, though perhaps by incompatible teachers. Its like this, the numbers are not reflective in this sense how the Church permeates the conscience in the long run of its members, [within and without] and who wavered in areas such as birth control etc. While their is no doubt a concern for the path, and souls, it can’t be ignored that this ingrained teaching and appeal to the conscience, indeed surface’s, and often in critical moments. That an opposed view in the social transition of history wins favor in a time period, isn’t uncommon or unprecedented.

Those who in pride insist on being proven wrong, I pray for them, they get the test first then understand the lesson later. They get a bit full of themselves and forget to take their shoes off and remember that they are on holy ground.

I see rebirth in its infancy. I see children and young adults today who have a very similar view to what I witnessed prior to V-II and this difficult period we all went through and in what I believe we are coming out of. I see the fire of inspiration spreading and know that it only takes a few to help it to grow. The 22-million lapsed Catholics, no they won’t all be back, but I do see many returning, and others I hear that familiar recitation of the conscience “I need to get back to Church”. The chain of command in Christs Church will remain, never has it not, regardless of weak links, those are expected as are those sent by the Lord. We just don’t know where or when one or the other will manifest.

Countries which are more than 80% professed Catholic in Europe have approved gay marriage, and so on. The Church is suffering a crisis in the priesthood. How will the Church continue on without priests? Have you ever seen an abandoned Catholic Church? I have. I went inside, and it looked like it had simply been walked away from. There were even vestments still hanging. The Church just gave up on that particular rural location, and didn’t even bother to lock the doors, or dispose of anything. I hope that the last priest remembered to take care of any host on hand.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

Of course, we Catholics could go one step further and say that the Real real Church of England isn’t Anglican at all but Roman Catholic.

My thoughts exactly, even all the choir boys singing songs in Latin. So boys its time for you to all come home.

 

[englishredrose]

whose to say ‘we’ become Catholic if there wasn’t any Church of England left? Catholics all assume ‘we’ would join them where as in fact I for one and can only speak for myself wouldn’t become Catholic. I would either remain Church of England since we can put any faith down on our application forms etc equal opportunities monitoring) or have much more chance of becoming Methodist than Catholic since there is a Methodist Church in my village at the exact same distance. Mormons are nearer to me but I couldn’t go that far. I am much more likely to say liberal christian than transfer to Catholic. No actual offence but I do not like some of the arguments you are all taught to give and I couldn’t give them because I am much more open minded and easy going in some of the approaches.

Just because the Church of England may or may not one day cease to exist, wouldn’t necessarily mean ‘we’ all become Catholic.

 

[aemcpa]

whose to say ‘we’ become Catholic if there wasn’t any Church of England left? Catholics all assume ‘we’ would join them where as in fact I for one and can only speak for myself wouldn’t become Catholic. I would either remain Church of England since we can put any faith down on our application forms etc equal opportunities monitoring) or have much more chance of becoming Methodist than Catholic since there is a Methodist Church in my village at the exact same distance. Mormons are nearer to me but I couldn’t go that far. I am much more likely to say liberal christian than transfer to Catholic. No actual offence but I do not like some of the arguments you are all taught to give and I couldn’t give them because I am much more open minded and easy going in some of the approaches.

Just because the Church of England may or may not one day cease to exist, wouldn’t necessarily mean ‘we’ all become Catholic.

It is clear that you follow a god that is made in your own image.

“If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” - Saint Augustine

 

[englishredrose]

It is clear that you follow a god that is made in your own image.

“If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” - Saint Augustine

…and that is the kind of attitude am talking about of what I do not like thank you for providing me with a clear example

 

[Lotharson]

If they keep

1. denying the supernatural
2. maintaining old-fashioned worship songs

I fear they’ll perish…

Lovely greetings from Germany
Liebe Grüße aus Deutschland

Lothars Sohn - Lothar’s son
lotharlorraine.wordpress.com

 

[Bergon]

Ah. I may have misunderstood, too. I was answering a question that pondered whether same-sex marriage would kill the Church of England.
Oh well!

.

I don’t know if the Church of England will die. I certainly don’t think it’s going to remain a larger church but it will wither and become much smaller. I don’t think the UK Parliament legalising same sex marriage will harm the CofE. There are many other factors that will cause it harm.

 

[cmodrmac]

I believe Henry VIII always viewed himself as a Catholic (Big C) -certainly Ann Boleyn did not (Mother of Elizabeth) Edward VI was a Protestant or at least his handlers were
Mary was Catholic and burned Archbishop Cranmer as a heretic

I suspect Elizabeth did not care but started the via media

Again the death of the C of E would have little effect on the USA Anglican and Episcopal Groups

The members of ECUSA are not Catholic nor do we pretend to be-I see very few people going back to the RC Church from ECUSA -if the Church collapses in the USA who knows where we will go -we have gone down the road too far on issues of human sexuality and there is likely no return-it will be a sad day-I suspect ECUSA will slowly give way to the demographic tide-The Anglican Church in North America is composed of angry white males -not a formula for growth

The RC Church and the Orthodox will likely be the two left standing -perhaps as it should be

 

[Bergon]

The RC Church and the Orthodox will likely be the two left standing -perhaps as it should be

I think they should be united. They probably have the greatest prospect of union. I know I fervently pray for it. I do pray for Christian unity, not just between the catholics and orthodox. Unfortunately, I think the latter is now far less likely.

 

[GKC]

I believe Henry VIII always viewed himself as a Catholic (Big C) -certainly Ann Boleyn did not (Mother of Elizabeth) Edward VI was a Protestant or at least his handlers were
Mary was Catholic and burned Archbishop Cranmer as a heretic

I suspect Elizabeth did not care but started the via media

Again the death of the C of E would have little effect on the USA Anglican and Episcopal Groups

The members of ECUSA are not Catholic nor do we pretend to be-I see very few people going back to the RC Church from ECUSA -if the Church collapses in the USA who knows where we will go -we have gone down the road too far on issues of human sexuality and there is likely no return-it will be a sad day-I suspect ECUSA will slowly give way to the demographic tide-The Anglican Church in North America is composed of angry white males -not a formula for growth

The RC Church and the Orthodox will likely be the two left standing -perhaps as it should be

Your first 5 historical points are accurate.

GKC

 

[aemcpa]

…and that is the kind of attitude am talking about of what I do not like thank you for providing me with a clear example

What exactly don’t you like? Objective truth? The idea that conflicting doctrines can’t all be true? The fact that we don’t get to choose what is true based on what makes us feel good?

 

[Picky_Picky]

What exactly don’t you like? Objective truth? The idea that conflicting doctrines can’t all be true? The fact that we don’t get to choose what is true based on what makes us feel good?

Could it possibly be your unpleasant tone of voice?

 

[Picky_Picky]

Your first 5 historical points are accurate.

GKC

Do you mean to agree with the assertion that ELizabeth “didn’t care”?

 

[GKC]

Do you mean to agree with the assertion that ELizabeth “didn’t care”?

Without examining it too closely, yes. She had some personal points on theology, which leaned more reformed, but generally, what she wanted was to rule a functional kingdom and manage a fractious Church. The inclusion of via media in the post got my nod. True, all comments made could be massaged a little, but I didn’t see anything to carp at, on that level of detail.

The next two sections are the posters own. No comment.

GKC

 

[Picky_Picky]

Without examining it too closely, yes. She had some personal points on theology, which leaned more reformed, but generally, what she wanted was to rule a functional kingdom and manage a fractious Church. The inclusion of via media in the post got my nod. True, all comments made could be massaged a little, but I didn’t see anything to carp at, on that level of detail.

The next two sections are the posters own. No comment.

GKC

Yes, her key motivation will have been her secular role, no doubt. But I beg leave to doubt whether a well educated, highly intelligent woman at that time in our history, surrounded as she was by people exhibiting the extremes of “caring”, would have been uncaring of the outcome. I suppose I’m saying that the via media wasn’t just a politically savvy way forward but something that resonated with her own beliefs and (perhaps especially) with her reaction to the life of fear she had experienced before her accession.

But then I admit I’m just overly enamoured of the woman, as so many were.

 

[GKC]

Yes, her key motivation will have been her secular role, no doubt. But I beg leave to doubt whether a well educated, highly intelligent woman at that time in our history, surrounded as she was by people exhibiting the extremes of “caring”, would have been uncaring of the outcome. I suppose I’m saying that the via media wasn’t just a politically savvy way forward but something that resonated with her own beliefs and (perhaps especially) with her reaction to the life of fear she had experienced before her accession.

But then I admit I’m just overly enamoured of the woman, as so many were.

I think I could share your conclusion in your last sentence. I do say that she would have peace, if she had to kill to get it. Whether it was personal conviction or political expediency, or, both, it was her via, to achieve the end.

GKC

 

[GaryTaylor]

Its difficult when you combine social political, legal and attempt to impose religious believe and apply it to the whole.

Its got something to do with Jesus and his take on division and coming to understand the Holy Spirit. Perpetual purification process, that said those purified I don’t see as dying.

 

[Picky_Picky]

Its difficult when you combine social political, legal and attempt to impose religious believe and apply it to the whole.

Its got something to do with Jesus and his take on division and coming to understand the Holy Spirit. Perpetual purification process, that said those purified I don’t see as dying.

You may have twigged by now that I’m not the brightest spark, Gary. Can you spell that out for me?