Will the Mass of Paul VI survive another 50 years?

[pnewton]

As far as Latin, I have little doubt that will be around somewhat. We still even have Greek in the Mass in the Kyrie.

Since I think we all agree that things will not be static, as they never are, I believe a better question is what changes might we see. ProVobis mentioned he thought it would be around, but changed. It is reminiscent of what the Holy Father has said about not going backward, but refining certain points for a better liturgy.

I think we will see Mass changed back to facing liturgical east, from whence comed our Lord. This is one point that I was sold on by our Holy Father and it seems to be a matter dear to him.

I think we will see, and are seeing, an end to dynamic translations in the text of the Mass and a return to a literal use of the vernacular.

 

[ProVobis]

I think we will see, and are seeing, an end to dynamic translations in the text of the Mass and a return to a literal use of the vernacular.

Or maybe a more distinguished type of vernacular like the Anglicans use?

 

[dandn5000]

Or maybe a more distinguished type of vernacular like the Anglicans use?

Ehh, I’m not so sold on that. Definitely translate the Latin well and make it formal in our language, but there’s no need to get into the thous and thys. That isn’t formal, that’s archaic, and to me that’s like putting on airs.

 

[pnewton]

That isn’t formal, that’s archaic, and to me that’s like putting on airs.

Putting on airs, and treating liturgy as the most sacred time of all is sometimes only a matter of perspective.

 

[palmas85]

What an interesting thread.

Since becoming Catholic and learning about the two Mass forms, I’ve become convinced that within 50 years, we won’t see a Latin Mass. I think that once the generation of those who remember it are gone, it will be gone, too.

I’m not saying that out of any sense of triumph or snideness. I just think that’s what will happen.

Yes, I agree that there are pockets of Catholics, including young Catholics, who are interested in holding onto the traditional Mass.

But I think that there are many many more Catholics who are not interested in traditional Latin Mass, and would be very happy to have an abuse-free OF in their own heart language.

Our Bishop says that the main reason Pope Benedict XVI is working to keep Latin is because of the need to maintain excellent scholarship in Latin to be able to correctly study and translate the Scriptures, the writings of the Church fathers, etc. Makes sense to me.

But the Latin Mass doesn’t have to be around in order to have good scholarship in Latin, does it?

Again, everyone, I’m not trying to rain on your parade or do a happy dance or chortle over the superiority of the OF. I just think that the indicators point to the end of the Latin Mass in the world.

You’ve got to be kidding, right?

The overwhelming number of those attending the Traditional Mass these days by far, is the under fifty year old age group, and that includes many young families. They were not around when the Traditional Mass was the norm.

So I guess what you are saying is that once us oldsters shuffle off all these young people will wake up, realize how wrong they have been and revert back to the Pauline Rite. Is that about it?


Keep dreaming.

And I believe if you read the Holy Fathers writings on the Mass you will see that your Bishop is trying to sell you a bill of goods on this issue.

Sorry, don’t mean to rain on your parade either.

 

[Cat]

You’ve got to be kidding, right?

**The overwhelming number of those attending the Traditional Mass these days by far, is the under fifty year old age group, and that includes many young families. **They were not around when the Traditional Mass was the norm.

So I guess what you are saying is that once us oldsters shuffle off all these young people will wake up, realize how wrong they have been and revert back to the Pauline Rite. Is that about it?


Keep dreaming.

And I believe if you read the Holy Fathers writings on the Mass you will see that your Bishop is trying to sell you a bill of goods on this issue.

Sorry, don’t mean to rain on your parade either.

It’s just my opinion. I’m not trying to prove anything, and I’m not “dreaming.” It makes no difference to me, as long as we can still receive Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament at Mass.

I will take your word for it that young families are the primary attenders of TLM.

In our city, there are thousands of Catholics; it’s probably the biggest “religion” in the city, unless you count “Church of the Inner Springs,” which has the largest attendance.

A few hundred Catholics attend the TLM in our city.

All the rest of the thousands of Catholics attend OF Masses. Our parish does nine OF Masses on weekends, and they are filled (most to capacity with standing room only, except for the 6: 30 A.M. Mass).

During the week, a small number of Catholics attend the daily TLM. Our parish has an early morning Mass and a later morning Mass, and both attract a reasonable crowd, definitely more than the TLM.

And there are many other Catholic parishes, all OF, and all with the same basic stats.

It’s a question of majority. The TLMers are vastly outnumbered.

Since OF is considered valid, licit, and totally “acceptable” by the Church, the issue not a question of “the right shall prevail.” Both forms are “right,” and since the huge majority attend and appreciate OF, I believe that this Mass form will eventually prevail.

There may be a few pockets of Catholics who attend TLM in the world, but I believe that the Church’s efforts to establish TLM in every parish, indeed, in every diocese, will eventually cease. There are so many other issues that the Church will (and should) give attention to. As long as the OF is licit, valid, and reverent, why would the Church spend so much energy trying to get rid of it when so many Catholics prefer it?

Again, no chortling from me, no bark of triumph or thrill of victory. I’m just stating what seems obvious to me. I realize that throughout history, there have been many times when what was “obvious” from a human standpoint changed quickly when the Lord stepped in (e.g., Lepanto). So I admit freely that I could be wrong in my opinion.

As for whoever said, “I will be dead by then,” well, I will be dead,too, but I HOPE to be a member of the Church Triumphant interceding from heaven for the Church Militant! So I’ll care!

 

[ibkc]

It’s a question of majority. The TLMers are vastly outnumbered.

You need to take into account the fact that it has only been a year since the OF was freed. Celebrations of the OF are popping up all over the world now. Ten years ago, it was extremely difficult to find any, anywhere that were not celebrated by problematic groups.

So while you certainly have a right to an opinion like the rest of us, may I submit to you that you are seriously jumping the gun on this one. At least a decade needs to pass before we can get a sense of what will happen with the OF.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

This thread is closed. Thank you all.