Will the Real Bishops Please Stand Up? Please Stand Up

[FatBoy]

The Catholic Church claims to be pro-family, pro-life, against homosexuality ext…;however, you could have fooled me! I like to say “you are what you speak”.
First of all, I am not a Catholic; although, I am on the path towards coming into full communion with the Church by the grace of God. My father is a Southern Baptist pastor, my grandfather was a Southern Baptist pastor and an overseas missionary, my great grandfather was a Southern Baptist pastor, oh, and by the way my wife’s father is a Southern Baptist pastor. As far as my brothers go; well, they are already Catholic and one is a biblical instructor for an archdiocese and the other is discerning holy orders as I write. There are presently at least three things that I am battling with in my journey to the Truth. Please bear with me as I ramble on about these three.
I have been attending about four different parishes off and on to see where my family fits in best. Every parish that I have been to has at lest one thing in common. The people are standoffish and downright unfriendly. This includes the priests. For a church that basis its whole existence upon a familial concept it sure is not practicing what it is preaching. The complete opposite of the practice spoken of here is a major draw for protestant churches. People want to go where they feel welcome. Yet, Catholic apologists claim that the Catholic Church is about family and Protestantism is about “me and Jesus”. It appears to me at present time that the apologists have it backwards. Can someone please shed light on my ignorance as to why this practice seems to be so prevalent in my short experience with the Catholic Church?
Let’s talk about contraception. Wait…maybe not…I wouldn’t want to offend anyone! Give me a break! I have yet to have heard a priest speak or pray for an end to contraception. They always pray for an end to the “culture of death” which is great but you need to be a little more specific. The culture we live in (especially ages 18-40) does not understand there to be anything wrong with contraception. Sadly (I believe by omission from prays and such) it is not associated with the “culture of death”. If you would allow me to step on some “pins and needles” for a sec I would say we do not need to pray for an end to abortion. Yes, that is what I said. We need to pray towards the foundation of the “culture of death”. We need to pray for the end of contraception. Abortion is simply a fail-safe contraceptive. If people would stop contracepting abortion would cease. Yet, priests won’t touch it. One of my brothers told me that he felt the Blessed Mother calling him during the prayers of the faithful while in daily mass to pray for an end to contraception (at this particular parish the priest allowed for the people to announce their own intentions). People looked at him with disgust and after about a week the priest stopped asking for the congregations intentions. Can you believe this? Is this what the Catholic Church represents? It seems that the Church is talking out of two side of its mouth. Can someone please explain this to me?
Lastly, homosexuality. Why do priests not stand up for an end to this. It is not to be spoken of. At least that’s what it seems like. Sometimes the truth hurts. The priest is the shepard and he has an obligation to protect his flock. Yet, he will not? People need to know what is wrong now more then ever.
I believe the Bishops need to take a stand and insure the protection of their flock from the vultures of sin such as these. Hence the title “Will the Real Bishops Please Stand Up? Please Stand Up.”

 

[blessedtoo]

Greetings, Fatboy! Welcome to the Church! And I love your screen name.

Okay, take a deep breath. You have valid complaints. You are a new member and have probably not had a chance to visit the many threads that discuss these issues. While it’s true that one will have a difficult time finding a priest who will speak out from the pulpit on issues like contraception and homosexuality, that does not mean that the Church or the Bishop’s are indifferent. Many parishes offer ministries to the homosexual community (although one must be careful of what these outreach groups actually preach). Last year (?) the Bishops released a document entitled Pastoral Outreach to Homosexual Persons which was thoroughly orthdox and provided clarity for the faithful. While hell could freeze over before you might hear a homily on homosexualty, it is also true that one rarely hears anything about sexual sin of any type from the pulpit. It seems that in the last 30 years we have been inundated with the love theology at the expense of the sin theology. Hopefully, the tide is changing as the JPII generation of clergy enter the ranks.

As for contraception, well, I honestly do not know what one can expect from the priests. I haven’t had a need to deal with this issue but judging from what I have read here on CAF, the pastoral advice folks get from their priests about ABC is quite disconcerting. When you consider that clergy began dissenting from Church teaching even before Vat 2, it should be no surprise that now, decades later, many are in even more disagreement. Of course, their personal opinions should not matter, but I fear they are often reflected in the dubious advice they give the faithful. We must continue to hope and pray that our Pastors and Bishops will find the courage they need to speak the truth.

 

[FatBoy]

Thanks for your insight blessedtoo.

 

[Caveman]

Talk about timliness!! I just created a post on my blog asking the very same thing.

In essence, I’ve pointed out that out of the over 300 Bishops in the USCCB, less than a dozen have actually adhered to the Vatican guidelines and refused Holy Communion to pro-abortion “Catholic” politicians. Less than 5%. Isn’t that pathetic?

And more recently, how many of our bishops have come right out and announced that they will follow The Holy Father’s directives concerning the Motu Proprio? Without nuance… without "forming committees?.. without adding subtle caveats?

FatBoy’s right! Will the real Catholic Bishops stand up!!

But FatBoy, know this… none of us should really be taken aback by the attitudes of many within the USCCB. We’ve been warned.

Remember what Our Lady of Akita said in 1973 –

*“The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.”

“The demon will be especially implacable against the souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of my sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will be no longer pardon for them.” *

 

[jmcrae]

You guys realize that there are children present at Mass, right?

It is inappropriate to discuss sexual matters in front of children, and this is the reason these things aren’t usually mentioned in homilies.

By contrast, they certainly are mentioned in Bible study groups and adult Catechism classes, and in the teaching documents of the Church that are free to download from the Vatican web site or to pick up at a nominal cost at any Catholic bookstore.

Fatboy, think about this for a second - you, who aren’t even a full member of the Church yet, “somehow” found out about these teachings. Believe me, they are not hidden away in a deep dark closet - anyone who claims not to know what the Church teaches on these issues is simply not paying attention.

 

[Chovy]

You guys realize that there are children present at Mass, right?

It is inappropriate to discuss sexual matters in front of children, and this is the reason these things aren’t usually mentioned in homilies.

By contrast, they certainly are mentioned in Bible study groups and adult Catechism classes, and in the teaching documents of the Church that are free to download from the Vatican web site or to pick up at a nominal cost at any Catholic bookstore.

Fatboy, think about this for a second - you, who aren’t even a full member of the Church yet, “somehow” found out about these teachings. Believe me, they are not hidden away in a deep dark closet - anyone who claims not to know what the Church teaches on these issues is simply not paying attention.

I’m not sure these are inappropriate topics to discuss in front of children, provided the discussion is not vulgar. How many times have we read on these boards that someone went through 12 years of Catholic school and never heard that birth control was a sin? The children are learning the opposing side’s view on sexual matters just through everyday life in society, why not present them with the Church’s stance on these topics as well?

Welcome Fatboy! I wish you many blessings as you continue your faith journey.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

I’m not sure these are inappropriate topics to discuss in front of children, provided the discussion is not vulgar. How many times have we read on these boards that someone went through 12 years of Catholic school and never heard that birth control was a sin? The children are learning the opposing side’s view on sexual matters just through everyday life in society, why not present them with the Church’s stance on these topics as well?

Welcome Fatboy! I wish you many blessings as you continue your faith journey.

Agree with you here Chovy. Our priest has talked about birth control being wrong. He has talked about abortion. I think that we are blessed in that sense. I will admit that like the OP, we have been to parishes where the congregation and even the priest had the “me and Jesus” menatlity or just the “me” mentality at Mass. It is sad, but we have now been blessed to have found a parish that we feel as if we are being fed both spiritually and socially. We have met so many people from our parish and we love it.

Also, I have to give a lot of credit to our Archbishop Raymond Burke who is not afraid to speak the truth even when he gets constantly “beat up” by the media for it.

I think that, as Chovy mentioned, Catholic schooling is not what it should be. I fell into the category of not knowing that ABC was a sin. So I think that these things are important. I think that many of the priests may fall into this thinking as well…“well I was going to talk about masturbation (or contraception) but you know there are little kids out there, do not want to offend them.” The Catholic Church is not about being politically correct and that is one thing that irks me. Why be afraid to speak the truth? Jesus wasn’t!! Who are you following?

 

[FatBoy]

You guys realize that there are children present at Mass, right?

It is inappropriate to discuss sexual matters in front of children, and this is the reason these things aren’t usually mentioned in homilies.

By contrast, they certainly are mentioned in Bible study groups and adult Catechism classes, and in the teaching documents of the Church that are free to download from the Vatican web site or to pick up at a nominal cost at any Catholic bookstore.

Fatboy, think about this for a second - you, who aren’t even a full member of the Church yet, “somehow” found out about these teachings. Believe me, they are not hidden away in a deep dark closet - anyone who claims not to know what the Church teaches on these issues is simply not paying attention.

Well, if every Catholic were as bright as you we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. The fact is Catholics either are not aware of these “teachings” (these “teachings” are in no way “Catholic” to me. Remember I hold and have always held to these beliefs and I am not Catholic) or they simply don’t care.

By the way, I completely agree with Covey. Why should children be shielded from Truth. That is extremely irresponsible when we have a secular society that sure isn’t holding back inundating our children in its hedonistic views on sexual morality…

 

[Sr_Sally]

In the past 2 weeks we’ve had a homily that discussed the sin of contraception and a homily devoted to the 2 new documents released by the Vactican (and the driving one wasn’t discussed ).

Last night (at Adoration) I learned that our parish will soon be having Adoration more often --possibly even every day!!! We now have it once a week.

Please come visit if you want a dose of orthodoxy!!

 

[FatBoy]

In the past 2 weeks we’ve had a homily that discussed the sin of contraception and a homily devoted to the 2 new documents released by the Vactican (and the driving one wasn’t discussed ).

Last night (at Adoration) I learned that our parish will soon be having Adoration more often --possibly even every day!!! We now have it once a week.

Please come visit if you want a dose of orthodoxy!!

That’s awesome! That’s another thing I can’t understand. Why would you not want to have adoration 24-7. This is Jesus were talking about right? Or is it just bread? I asked this very question to a priest about 2 weeks ago and he said they don’t have adoration for security reasons. Have you ever heard of cameras? You know you can get them for pretty cheap at Wal-Mart. Lets call it “Cameras for Jesus”.

 

[Chovy]

In the past 2 weeks we’ve had a homily that discussed the sin of contraception and a homily devoted to the 2 new documents released by the Vactican (and the driving one wasn’t discussed ).

Last night (at Adoration) I learned that our parish will soon be having Adoration more often --possibly even every day!!! We now have it once a week.

Please come visit if you want a dose of orthodoxy!!

I’ll come visit! Where is this wonderful place? Seriously though, my former parish in Nebraska had an excellent priest who did address topics like these on a regular basis. He was from Africa. Since we’ve moved to Pennsylvania, I can’t tell you how many times we’ve tried out new parish and my dear husband has said, “That priest needs a few tips from Fr. Kizito!”

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

I’ll come visit! Where is this wonderful place? Seriously though, my former parish in Nebraska had an excellent priest who did address topics like these on a regular basis. He was from Africa. Since we’ve moved to Pennsylvania, I can’t tell you how many times we’ve tried out new parish and my dear husband has said, “That priest needs a few tips from Fr. Kizito!”

Too bad you are not close to Erie, you could see Fr. Larry Richards!!

 

[FatBoy]

Many folks keep bringing up homilies. I just want an occasional prayer for an end to contraception and homosexuality. The priest does not even need to get into the details of the issues.

 

[blessedtoo]

Considering the Catholic schools in Seattle are about to implement the very controversial program “Talking About Touching”, in which five years old will be “taught” about the mechanics of sex, I would say it’s probably safe to have an occasional homily about fornication, contraception, etc.

We all know our priests and bishops are quite deft at framing discussions about delicate matters inoffensively. They are masterful at making hard teachings appear, shall we say, enigmatic. I find it hard to believe they are unable to frame sensitive topics in a way that would be appropriate to hear with children present.

 

[jmcrae]

By the way, I completely agree with Covey. Why should children be shielded from Truth. That is extremely irresponsible when we have a secular society that sure isn’t holding back inundating our children in its hedonistic views on sexual morality…

It’s not about “shielding children from the truth” but rather, protecting their innocence until they are old enough to have these kinds of conversations - with their parents, first of all, and also with, yes, their priests and their religion teachers.

I am not surprised that some people say they were “never taught” that birth control is a sin in Religion class, not because it isn’t taught there, but because too many children have poor attendance, or else they quit as soon as they have received the Sacrament of Confirmation, at age eleven, which is a little young yet for discussions about birth control vs. NFP, or discussions about abortion and the stages of the foetus. And sometimes both - I’ve met lots of kids who squeak under with a 51% attendance level and quit Religion in Grade 5 or Grade 6 because “it’s boring; I know it all.”

I do remember a priest getting into a detailed discussion about birth control in a homily one time - a lot of people said, “Bravo” of course, but there were a few Moms who had to ramp up the sex talk from age 12 to age 8 as a consequence, and it was uncomfortable for them - they had wished that their kids could have been innocent for a few years longer.

 

[jmcrae]

We all know our priests and bishops are quite deft at framing discussions about delicate matters inoffensively. They are masterful at making hard teachings appear, shall we say, enigmatic. I find it hard to believe they are unable to frame sensitive topics in a way that would be appropriate to hear with children present.

Isn’t this exactly what the OP is complaining about - that priests talk about “fighting against the culture of death” without really explaining in strong detail what that is?

 

[FatBoy]

It’s not about “shielding children from the truth” but rather, protecting their innocence until they are old enough to have these kinds of conversations - with their parents, first of all, and also with, yes, their priests and their religion teachers.

I am not surprised that some people say they were “never taught” that birth control is a sin in Religion class, not because it isn’t taught there, but because too many children have poor attendance, or else they quit as soon as they have received the Sacrament of Confirmation, at age eleven, which is a little young yet for discussions about birth control vs. NFP, or discussions about abortion and the stages of the foetus. And sometimes both - I’ve met lots of kids who squeak under with a 51% attendance level and quit Religion in Grade 5 or Grade 6 because “it’s boring; I know it all.”

I do remember a priest getting into a detailed discussion about birth control in a homily one time - a lot of people said, “Bravo” of course, but there were a few Moms who had to ramp up the sex talk from age 12 to age 8 as a consequence, and it was uncomfortable for them - they had wished that their kids could have been innocent for a few years longer.

Please explain to me how the priest saying a prayer for an end to contraception (and stating it just like that) would take the innocence away from a child?

 

[kage_ar]

Please explain to me how the priest saying a prayer for an end to contraception (and stating it just like that) would take the innocence away from a child?

Do you have children? The answer for some parents is a 6 year old Ashley saying “mommy, what is contraception”? There are parents who do not wish to have that talk at age 6 or age 8…

As has been posted elsewhere, the Homily is to focus on the readings of the day. It is difficult for converts who are used to “preaching” - a sermon that lasts from 30 minutes to over an hour where the preacher will go into detail about the topic of his choosing to adjust to the 10 minute Homily.

To use IT terms, in our pre-Catholic days, we were used to having teaching on morals pushed at us. In the Catholic world, we have to go pull that information.

Parents need to teach children about morals, and parents need to educate themselves. The CCC is inexpensive (free on line) - there is no excuse for not knowing the Church’s teachings.

 

[FatBoy]

Isn’t this exactly what the OP is complaining about - that priests talk about “fighting against the culture of death” without really explaining in strong detail what that is?

You avoided answering the assertion that “we have a secular society that sure isn’t holding back inundating our children in its hedonistic views on sexual morality”. So are you saying to just sit back and let society have its way with our children. “They can be exposed to evil at any age but don’t you even think about exposing children to good until their old enough”! Give me a break. This is why our society is in the depths of sin that it is in. Christians have not stood up for the truth. Children are not being taught right from wrong. And I can not believe you would imply that people should wait and get the knowledge of right and wrong in matters of sexual morality from their RCIA instructor. You stated…“By contrast, they certainly are mentioned in Bible study groups and adult Catechism classes, and in the teaching documents of the Church that are free to download from the Vatican web site or to pick up at a nominal cost at any Catholic bookstore”. Are you kidding me?

 

[maryjk]

Do you have children? The answer for some parents is a 6 year old Ashley saying “mommy, what is contraception”? There are parents who do not wish to have that talk at age 6 or age 8…

I agree, I wouldn’t want to have to explain it to my 11year old…

Sorry, but because you want to hear it doesn’t make it right for a child to hear it.

What our Prayers of the Faithful say is something about respecting life from conception to natural death. But that doesn’t say anything about contraception. So I guess that wouldn’t be good enough.

FatBoy:

You avoided answering the assertion that “we have a secular society that sure isn’t holding back inundating our children in its hedonistic views on sexual morality”. So are you saying to just sit back and let society have its way with our children. “They can be exposed to evil at any age but don’t you even think about exposing children to good until their old enough”! Give me a break.

Okay, so because some children are exposed to evil at an early age, I need to counter that by exposing my child to things that he is most likely not going to understand? How about instead of that, we stop exposing some children to the evil?