Will the Real Bishops Please Stand Up? Please Stand Up

[FatBoy]

I do remember a priest getting into a detailed discussion about birth control in a homily one time - a lot of people said, “Bravo” of course, but there were a few Moms who had to ramp up the sex talk from age 12 to age 8 as a consequence, and it was uncomfortable for them - they had wished that their kids could have been innocent for a few years longer.

I can’t believe I am reading this. It is not about what is comfortable or uncomfortable for a mom or dad. It should be about what the child needs based on what our children are exposed to. I am a teacher in an innercity school. I know first hand what children are being exposed to. You would probably be surprised just how much they do know. Probably more then you or me!

By the way, yes I do have children.

 

[jmcrae]

I can’t believe I am reading this. It is not about what is comfortable or uncomfortable for a mom or dad.

Actually, it is, because the parent is the primary educator of the child, and has the right to determine at what age the child begins to be exposed to information about sex - including the right to pull them out of your inner city school and home-school them, if that’s what it takes to protect their innocence.

 

[John_Higgins]

FatBoy:

I have been attending about four different parishes off and on to see where my family fits in best. Every parish that I have been to has at lest one thing in common. The people are standoffish and downright unfriendly. This includes the priests. For a church that basis its whole existence upon a familial concept it sure is not practicing what it is preaching. The complete opposite of the practice spoken of here is a major draw for protestant churches. People want to go where they feel welcome. Yet, Catholic apologists claim that the Catholic Church is about family and Protestantism is about “me and Jesus”. It appears to me at present time that the apologists have it backwards. Can someone please shed light on my ignorance as to why this practice seems to be so prevalent in my short experience with the Catholic Church?

FB, thanks for stating this. The other topics you’ve brought up have been discussed here a lot. This particular topic is a pet peeve of mine. I am an older cradle Catholic. My wife heard the call to the Catholic Church before we got engaged (She said it was for her, not for me.) She grew up Southern Baptist and her father was an SB minister. She later on converted to Methodism. She was working on her doctorate at a Jesuit university. The campus ministry there was/is magnificent and is, by and large, the reason she is Catholic.

After we got married and she moved to Chicagoland and we went to our geographic parish and were not made to feel welcome. Even after we volunteer in th parish, it was like no one (but the Lord) cared that we were there. At our parish in downtown Chicago (It IS our parish, despite what my buddy Tim says…) we went to a different Mass one Sunday and people asked where we had been. And our current parish is much bigger.

So how can the Church expect to convert anyone when some members seem to be aggressively apathetic to anyone new, Catholic or not? Just a little, “You new here?” would be great.

John

 

[maryjk]

Actually, it is, because the parent is the primary educator of the child, and has the right to determine at what age the child begins to be exposed to information about sex - including the right to pull them out of your inner city school and home-school them, if that’s what it takes to protect their innocence.

Exactly.
Just because the “inner city” school kids know all about sex, doesn’t mean that all children do. I am the primary educator of my son and because of that I have the right to decide what he learns and when he learns it.

I shouldn’t be forced to talk to him about something he may not be ready for because a priest goes into detail about contraception or because an inner city teacher feels that my child knows more about sex than I do. ( He doesn’t by the way.)

 

[Sr_Sally]

I’ll come visit! Where is this wonderful place? Seriously though, my former parish in Nebraska had an excellent priest who did address topics like these on a regular basis. He was from Africa. Since we’ve moved to Pennsylvania, I can’t tell you how many times we’ve tried out new parish and my dear husband has said, “That priest needs a few tips from Fr. Kizito!”

We’re not all that far from PA–diocese of Arlington.

 

[mesquite_magic]

I can’t believe I am reading this. It is not about what is comfortable or uncomfortable for a mom or dad. It should be about what the child needs based on what our children are exposed to. I am a teacher in an innercity school. I know first hand what children are being exposed to. You would probably be surprised just how much they do know. Probably more then you or me!

By the way, yes I do have children.

I agree. Aren’t children are inundated with TV commericals for birth control pills and Viagra every day. Why not have a prayer or even a homily. I’m sure the kids won’t ask anymore then they do about commericals.

Try explaning Viagra to an 11 year old. Ugh. Or as my 17 y/o dd would say, “Oh, gross Mom. Those people are, like, grandma and grampa’s age”. I’m trying to avoid explaining that just because you are past your childbearing years, doesn’t mean you don’t want to be sexual anymore. Who am I kidding. My mom had SEVEN immaculate conceptions :yup:

Kim

 

[jmcrae]

Exactly.
Just because the “inner city” school kids know all about sex, doesn’t mean that all children do.

I was an inner city kid (still am; I’m just older, now) and it’s really not all that it’s cracked up to be. I have never understood how it is that the location of one’s residence suddenly gives one some kind of “street smarts” - I’m pretty sure I didn’t have any more than anyone else, when I was growing up.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The problem, as I see it, (and you are talking to a woman who did not learn ‘the facts of life’ until she was 15, in biology class, and whose mother was darned upset about it–and no, it wasn’t Catholic school because we had moved and there was no Catholic school available), is that we are polarizing ourselves with two ‘extremes’.

One extreme would have children exposed to ‘sex’ teachings–not to Catholic teachings-- nearly from birth (the public school option. When my children were starting school, 20 years ago now for the oldest, there was a mandatory class about HIV which we were permitted to ‘opt out of’. Problem was, all the other kids attended. Do you think my children DIDN’T find out everything that was said, even though they didn’t want to?)

Another extreme would have individual family autonomy with ‘my right’ to tell my child the sex teaching and (hopefully but not guaranteed) the CATHOLIC teaching when “I” chose. Mrs. A tells her child at age 6, Mrs. B at age 8, Mrs. C at age 10, etc. etc. And of course, this problem means that there is never going to be a time when 'the subject of anything which can be construed as sexual in nature" could EVER be addressed in Church. At any given moment, Father will be faced with at least ONE child in the church whose parents have not ‘given the talk’ and thus, Father will be muzzled eternally.

In one scenario, even though the ‘option to opt out’ exists, the majority of children whose parents opt out–still wind up learning the knowledge, either by fellow classmates or even by ‘sympathetic teachers’ etc.

In the other, theoretically speaking, Catholic teaching about the subject can never be presented in Church lest it impinge on the ‘parental right’.

It’s a puzzle, all right.

 

[jmcrae]

I agree. Aren’t children are inundated with TV commericals for birth control pills and Viagra every day.

Well, like I said before, education begins in the home. What you let your kids watch on TV is up to you, for sure, but not all parents let their kids stay up that late, or watch those kinds of shows, and it’s those kids that won’t have heard of these things before, or whose parents won’t want to have to deal with it at a young age.

 

[Sr_Sally]

It seems to me that those parents who do want to give their children the Catholic viewpoint would be understanding that in order to have complete support for that ‘lifestyle’, they would have to put up with hearing about during homilies occasionally.

I have opted my kids out of all the public school ‘lessons’ and so far they’ve only learned what I wanted them to learn. It seems that most of their good friends also had the kind of parents who opted them out also!

The problem, as I see it, (and you are talking to a woman who did not learn ‘the facts of life’ until she was 15, in biology class, and whose mother was darned upset about it–and no, it wasn’t Catholic school because we had moved and there was no Catholic school available), is that we are polarizing ourselves with two ‘extremes’.

One extreme would have children exposed to ‘sex’ teachings–not to Catholic teachings-- nearly from birth (the public school option. When my children were starting school, 20 years ago now for the oldest, there was a mandatory class about HIV which we were permitted to ‘opt out of’. Problem was, all the other kids attended. Do you think my children DIDN’T find out everything that was said, even though they didn’t want to?)

Another extreme would have individual family autonomy with ‘my right’ to tell my child the sex teaching and (hopefully but not guaranteed) the CATHOLIC teaching when “I” chose. Mrs. A tells her child at age 6, Mrs. B at age 8, Mrs. C at age 10, etc. etc. And of course, this problem means that there is never going to be a time when 'the subject of anything which can be construed as sexual in nature" could EVER be addressed in Church. At any given moment, Father will be faced with at least ONE child in the church whose parents have not ‘given the talk’ and thus, Father will be muzzled eternally.

In one scenario, even though the ‘option to opt out’ exists, the majority of children whose parents opt out–still wind up learning the knowledge, either by fellow classmates or even by ‘sympathetic teachers’ etc.

In the other, theoretically speaking, Catholic teaching about the subject can never be presented in Church lest it impinge on the ‘parental right’.

It’s a puzzle, all right.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Our current parish has 20,000 members! When the average person transfers in and simply starts attending Mass, hardly anyone would notice. If I saw them, I might simply think that they were attending a different Mass or sitting in a different part of the church than usually. I would have no way of knowing if they were new. A person who comes in through RCIA will know people from that program. A family with children will know the other families from their CCD classes. If you join the choir or Legion of Mary, people will know you there. Otherwise, it is very difficult to get to know others just from Mass going.
Perhaps you could start a new members group at your church or some kind of welcoming committee that would call people and get to know them after registration.

FB, thanks for stating this. The other topics you’ve brought up have been discussed here a lot. This particular topic is a pet peeve of mine. I am an older cradle Catholic. My wife heard the call to the Catholic Church before we got engaged (She said it was for her, not for me.) She grew up Southern Baptist and her father was an SB minister. She later on converted to Methodism. She was working on her doctorate at a Jesuit university. The campus ministry there was/is magnificent and is, by and large, the reason she is Catholic.

After we got married and she moved to Chicagoland and we went to our geographic parish and were not made to feel welcome. Even after we volunteer in th parish, it was like no one (but the Lord) cared that we were there. At our parish in downtown Chicago (It IS our parish, despite what my buddy Tim says…) we went to a different Mass one Sunday and people asked where we had been. And our current parish is much bigger.

So how can the Church expect to convert anyone when some members seem to be aggressively apathetic to anyone new, Catholic or not? Just a little, “You new here?” would be great.

John

 

[blessedtoo]

As has been posted elsewhere, the Homily is to focus on the readings of the day. It is difficult for converts who are used to “preaching” - a sermon that lasts from 30 minutes to over an hour where the preacher will go into detail about the topic of his choosing to adjust to the 10 minute Homily.

This has to be the most overused defense of the homily as anaesthetic. It is completely possible and laudable for a priest to take the readings and APPLY them to our culture, to our present issues, to the problems that are relevent to us today. Every reading I hear provokes thought about something that occurs today (e.g., the Samaritan woman fornicating with 5 different men = premarital sex, adultery). Why do we think the priest must be limited to a theological treatise on the reading as though they were all present day Thomas Aquinas’s? Alot of wisdom that could help the faithful combat the rampant immorality in our culture could be imparted in 10 minutes - USING the readings.

 

[blessedtoo]

I agree. Aren’t children are inundated with TV commericals for birth control pills and Viagra every day. Why not have a prayer or even a homily. I’m sure the kids won’t ask anymore then they do about commericals.

It’s appalling what the commercials contain. I almost had a stroke the other day when I saw a disgusting “cartoon” of dancing pubic hair on MTV. During prime time.

Well, like I said before, education begins in the home. What you let your kids watch on TV is up to you, for sure, but not all parents let their kids stay up that late, or watch those kinds of shows,

Sorry. You’re wrong. Unless there is no TV in the house, a child can’t be spared from being exposed to commercials about E.D, erections lasting more than four hours, birth control patches, vaginal stimulant cream, male enhancement products, and on and on. Anyone who believes their child has not already thought about what these things mean is completely naive. If you’re child hasn’t asked you the questions yet, perhaps you should be concerned.

And BTW: Even the child in Catholic School is being taught about Good Touch Bad Touch; at kindergarten level.

 

[peacegirl]

Fatboy-- as a new convert myself, I hear you brother. First of all, I beg all of you to pray for the sanctification of the Priesthood. This is where the solution to all of this begins. Don’t just pray once for this, pray daily, if possible at 3:00PM–The Hour of Mercy. I believe that Our Lord will honor our prayers—especially at his sacred hour.
Secondly, it seems that some participants in this conversation have a skewed perception of sex. It is so sacred, so beautiful, and so important that it should be addressed in the context of worship. Sex is not dirty. It is the means by which God has chosen to create new eternal souls! I can remember hearing chastity sermons from the time I was in the 1st grade (i probably wasn’t paying attention before then). This did not “corrupt” me or destory my “innocense” it taught me to guard my virginity from a young age. I understood it as the greatest gift that I could give to my future spouse. Shielding our children from the truth of sexual morality will harm them, not help them. We need strong Fathers to guide their children in Truth. The pulpit should be a beacon of Truth and Light.
Please pray for the sanctification of the priesthood.

Peace,
peacegirl

 

[FatBoy]

Fatboy-- as a new convert myself, I hear you brother. First of all, I beg all of you to pray for the sanctification of the Priesthood. This is where the solution to all of this begins. Don’t just pray once for this, pray daily, if possible at 3:00PM–The Hour of Mercy. I believe that Our Lord will honor our prayers—especially at his sacred hour.
Secondly, it seems that some participants in this conversation have a skewed perception of sex. It is so sacred, so beautiful, and so important that it should be addressed in the context of worship. Sex is not dirty. It is the means by which God has chosen to create new eternal souls! I can remember hearing chastity sermons from the time I was in the 1st grade (i probably wasn’t paying attention before then). This did not “corrupt” me or destory my “innocense” it taught me to guard my virginity from a young age. I understood it as the greatest gift that I could give to my future spouse. Shielding our children from the truth of sexual morality will harm them, not help them. We need strong Fathers to guide their children in Truth. The pulpit should be a beacon of Truth and Light.
Please pray for the sanctification of the priesthood.

Peace,
peacegirl

Oh, the sweet savor of Truth. Right on Peacegirl!

 

[kage_ar]

Seems this should be moved to the Liturgy and Sacraments area… you might ask a Moderator to move this to the proper area.

 

[FatBoy]

Seems this should be moved to the Liturgy and Sacraments area… you might ask a Moderator to move this to the proper area.

I don’t believe you read the post. You might want to go back and read what I first wrote.

 

[kage_ar]

I don’t believe you read the post. You might want to go back and read what I first wrote.

Ummmm, I did read the post - you are asking about homilies and prayers during Mass, about folks being friendly and welcoming at Mass -

Seems you know lots more than me, I’ll go back to my corner now.

 

[FatBoy]

Ummmm, I did read the post - you are asking about homilies and prayers during Mass, about folks being friendly and welcoming at Mass -

Seems you know lots more than me, I’ll go back to my corner now.

lol…I’m sorry, I was not trying to hurt your feelings.

 

[Brad]

You guys realize that there are children present at Mass, right?

It is inappropriate to discuss sexual matters in front of children, and this is the reason these things aren’t usually mentioned in homilies.

These “matters” are all over TV, the movies, our billboards, in most public schools (often as early as kindergarten), on the radio, in the newspaper…

The excuse not to bring up these “matters” on Sunday is simply that - an excuse not to talk about sin because many going have involvement with these sins.

Further, quality pastoral ability allows these things to be talked about with being inappropriately graphic for various age groups.

I regularly attend mass where a priest discusses ALL the sins and my young children are present - it’s not been an issue - and they are gaining a foundation that was not granted my generation and most people today.

It’s about saving souls, not walking on eggshells and making everybody happy clappy.