Will the standard of living in America continue to dwindle?

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We see it now in the steady decline of the median income of the middle class. Will America’s economy continue to dwindle to bring it in line with the rest of the world? Will the same happen in the European Union? Is this social justice?
 
It seems to me to be the world destiny of predetermined economics!
 
We see it now in the steady decline of the median income of the middle class. Will America’s economy continue to dwindle to bring it in line with the rest of the world? Will the same happen in the European Union? Is this social justice?
Corporate CEO’s seem to be doing well. The amount of millionaires is growing in the US.

Minorities and urban-dwellers- not so much.
 
We see it now in the steady decline of the median income of the middle class. Will America’s economy continue to dwindle to bring it in line with the rest of the world? Will the same happen in the European Union? Is this social justice?
You have to remember that the real measurement of prosperity is not in median income but in the persons standard of living index. Do I think the standard of living will decline, yes if the morals continue to decline in society.
 
Blight! Blight! Poverty and blight across the land! Insure! Insure! Interest rates will dwindle to nothing.” --My Guardian Angel

In the early nineties I heard an emphatic and presumably angelic voice. I suggest this because the children at Fatima said the Angel of Peace was terse and emphatic like this voice, not the “still, small voice” of God. This voice of my guardian angel was telling me to tell a friend to take lecithin, a choline-rich supplment. I sheepishly relayed this, and this artist complied, and the artist’s hands, once covered in warts, quickly cleared up as the warts disappeared. I think this was to open the channel and establish credibility.

In the late nineties, I heard this same stern voice saying, “Blight! Blight! Poverty and blight across the land! Insure! Insure!” Then in a milder, less emphatic tone, he said, “Interest rates will dwindle to nothing.”

I told this to my dad only months before interest rates started ratcheting down and he laughed and made one of those “It can’t happen here” comments. Are we there yet? This is the metaphysical inevitability as America is being undercut by diabolical enemies of this, most generous, most Christian nation on Earth and once the best friend of Israel.

I just watched Dinesh D’Souza’s documentary "2016" and reviewed it in the popular media forum. America is crippled by debt. This is the end game. Done and done. Quantitative Easing. Our only economic refuge is in the one economically solvent industry that has a singular incentive in keeping us safe and sound, the insurance industry, demonized by this administration. Heed this angelic advice or keep rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
 
Blight! Blight! Poverty and blight across the land! Insure! Insure! Interest rates will dwindle to nothing.” --My Guardian Angel

In the early nineties I heard an emphatic and presumably angelic voice. I suggest this because the children at Fatima said the Angel of Peace was terse and emphatic like this voice, not the “still, small voice” of God. This voice of my guardian angel was telling me to tell a friend to take lecithin, a choline-rich supplment. I sheepishly relayed this, and this artist complied, and the artist’s hands, once covered in warts, quickly cleared up as the warts disappeared. I think this was to open the channel and establish credibility.

In the late nineties, I heard this same stern voice saying, “Blight! Blight! Poverty and blight across the land! Insure! Insure!” Then in a milder, less emphatic tone, he said, “Interest rates will dwindle to nothing.”

I told this to my dad only months before interest rates started ratcheting down and he laughed and made one of those “It can’t happen here” comments. Are we there yet? This is the metaphysical inevitability as America is being undercut by diabolical enemies of this, most generous, most Christian nation on Earth and once the best friend of Israel.

I just watched Dinesh D’Souza’s documentary "2016" and reviewed it in the popular media forum. America is crippled by debt. This is the end game. Done and done. Quantitative Easing. Our only economic refuge is in the one economically solvent industry that has a singular incentive in keeping us safe and sound, the insurance industry, demonized by this administration. Heed this angelic advice or keep rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Are you serious? You heard an angelic voice talk about insurance?
 
We see it now in the steady decline of the median income of the middle class. Will America’s economy continue to dwindle to bring it in line with the rest of the world? Will the same happen in the European Union? Is this social justice?
This will happen 100% guarentee. It started when the gov’t took us off the gold standard. Prior to that prices pretty much remained constant for goods and services. Then we switched to what is known as a ‘fiat currency’ (basically the money is backed by nothing). So paper money kept being produced en mass, making every dollar in existance worth less and less and less as the government continued to, and continues to, print money out of thin air.

Actually it’s much worse than that. The Federal Reserve Banks are PRIVATE banks, owned by individuals, they are not government banks owned by the citizens. These banks print money and then lend that money to the government with an interest rate attached. Pretty nice scam perpetrated on the citizens for the owners of the banks, huh?

And IMO it’s very important to keep in mind that back in the 50’s it was extremely common for a household/a family to be supported by one adult working while the other stayede home to raise their children. A man could work as a bagger in a grocery store and support his family. They may have been poor, but it was possible. Now this same job (and all similar jobs) can not even support one individual adult, let alone an entire family. So the ‘standard of living’ and the ‘middle class’ I think it’s very important to realize has shifted from the expectation that one parent could work while the other stayed at home to raise children, to the expectation (more and more) that both parents will have to work to support their family.

So any talk about standard of living IMO should be looked at with the consideration of how many man hours of work were required to be completed by a family in order for it to support itself. So in addition to the standard of living dropping for most americans over the past decades, the requirement of both parents working has become fairly standard whereas in the first half of the century it clearly was not required for a family to support itself, even if the one adult working held a meanial labor job. Now both parents can work menial labor jobs and still be struggling and definitely be in the ‘working poor’ class and not the middle class.

God Bless,
Bill
 
I think we will see the working classes income continue to decline. As stated above. Wealthy people, will continue to amass wealth.

It comes down to either sharing or hoarding. Lately it’s beem more about hoarding.

ATB
 
There will come the day when people work for spiritual rewards over sex and money. I believe it’s already happening!
 
This will happen 100% guarentee. It started when the gov’t took us off the gold standard. Prior to that prices pretty much remained constant for goods and services. Then we switched to what is known as a ‘fiat currency’ (basically the money is backed by nothing). So paper money kept being produced en mass, making every dollar in existance worth less and less and less as the government continued to, and continues to, print money out of thin air.

Actually it’s much worse than that. The Federal Reserve Banks are PRIVATE banks, owned by individuals, they are not government banks owned by the citizens. These banks print money and then lend that money to the government with an interest rate attached. Pretty nice scam perpetrated on the citizens for the owners of the banks, huh?

And IMO it’s very important to keep in mind that back in the 50’s it was extremely common for a household/a family to be supported by one adult working while the other stayede home to raise their children. A man could work as a bagger in a grocery store and support his family. They may have been poor, but it was possible. Now this same job (and all similar jobs) can not even support one individual adult, let alone an entire family. So the ‘standard of living’ and the ‘middle class’ I think it’s very important to realize has shifted from the expectation that one parent could work while the other stayed at home to raise children, to the expectation (more and more) that both parents will have to work to support their family.

So any talk about standard of living IMO should be looked at with the consideration of how many man hours of work were required to be completed by a family in order for it to support itself. So in addition to the standard of living dropping for most americans over the past decades, the requirement of both parents working has become fairly standard whereas in the first half of the century it clearly was not required for a family to support itself, even if the one adult working held a meanial labor job. Now both parents can work menial labor jobs and still be struggling and definitely be in the ‘working poor’ class and not the middle class.

God Bless,
Bill
It’s true that the “middle class” has shrunk. But it’s because a significant number have joined the “upper class” in terms of wealth. That’s, to some extent, due to the aging of the population because elders have more in terms of “wealth” than younger people, having accumulated it over a lifetime.

But median income has also shrunk. To some extent, that’s due to shrinkage of the “middle class” as abovementioned, which “skimmed off” some of the high earners, but also due to lower income from fewer full time jobs being available. Also, of course, to the extent employers are trying to figure out the costs of Obamacare, they are being cautious about giving raises.

I will agree that it now seems to take two incomes to do what one income did years ago. But one also has to realize that changes in technology and consumer goods have also made it difficult for a one-earner household.

When I was a kid, the typical new house had from 1,000 to 1500 square feet. Bedrooms were quite small, and so were kitchens. Now, both are much larger and the average new house is larger and more ornate. Cars in the 1950s were so simple almost anyone could diagnose and repair them. Now, almost nobody can because they are so complex. All of that complexity costs money. In the late 1940s and early 1950s, the average family had one record player and one radio. Now look at the gadgets! Who, in 1955 would have imagined having even an electric can opener, let alone a pasta maker and a bread maker and all kinds of specialized utensils. People once had ovens. Now they have double ovens and a microwave and perhaps a specialized one-item cooker. People once had one telephone in the home, period. Now, every member of the family has an I-phone and perhaps there is a land line as well.

When I was a kid, it was typical for boys to get two pair of jeans/year and two pairs of shoes; one for “good” and one for school. Today, kids’ closets are packed with clothing that is a lot more expensive, item by item.

When i was a kid, the state colleges in my state did not charge tuition if one was a state resident. A college student could earn enough in the summer to pay his room and board. But state colleges were pretty spare; perhaps one administration building that looked really good. The rest were almost barracks-like. They didn’t have the campus palaces they have now.

I recall reading, too, that if the child tax credit was, today, what it was in Truman’s day, it would be $20,000 per child. As a result, not too many people paid much in taxes. Oh, that 90% tax rate for the “rich”? Well, it was actually more like 40% for the top .01%. Nobody actually paid that 90%. How could that be? Well, government was a lot smaller then. In addition, most people had their annual contribution to social security paid up by late spring every year.

So, thinking it through, back when one family member could support the whole family, that family probably paid almost nothing in taxes and there weren’t nearly as many things to buy. “Keeping up with the Joneses” didn’t really apply to children. Now, children are into the latest fashions and gadgets.

If people today lived like people did in 1950, I don’t much doubt most could do with one income only.
 
History teaches that economies rise and fall. The question when falling is, HOW FAR DOWN and for how long?

The Crash of 1929 took us down pretty far and we stayed down for more than 10 years. Then World War II and then the greatest economic growth for 60 years with only minor, short term falls.

Today’s economy faces the largest threat since the Crash of 1929. We just do not know how far down or for how long we could go if wrong decisions are made.

The government can either help create new growth or it can hinder it.

History also teaches that when a national government tries to manage the economy too much, it usually fails and makes matters much worse. There are simply too many decisions to be made in too many industries and bureaucrats, nice as they are, are simply not businessmen who risk THEIR OWN MONEY and thus are more highly motivated than bureacrats, to make smarter decisions. I love football. I love to talk about it and analyze it and predict it. BUT I cannot play football the way it needs to be played to win. Same with most bureaucrats.

Government needs to encourage business and not become business itself. Too much government control results in too little freedom to succeed.
 
We have a consumer based economy. In order for such an economy to keep humming along, the largest number of consumers have to…well…consume. Since the 1970’s, wealth growth has stagnated or dropped for the largest part of our population while it has grown by leaps and bounds for the smallest part.

When middle and working class folks have money-they spend it. They buy things, they take vacations, they go out to dinner-and all those things create demand for goods and services. When very wealthy people get more money-it goes to the Caymans or Switzerland. :p.
 
We have a consumer based economy. In order for such an economy to keep humming along, the largest number of consumers have to…well…consume. Since the 1970’s, wealth growth has stagnated or dropped for the largest part of our population while it has grown by leaps and bounds for the smallest part.

When middle and working class folks have money-they spend it. They buy things, they take vacations, they go out to dinner-and all those things create demand for goods and services. When very wealthy people get more money-it goes to the Caymans or Switzerland. :p.
It’s possible, I suppose, that some VERY wealthy people put their money offshore. But most wealthy people don’t. I know lots of them, and it’s considered an invitation to an IRS audit…which it is. Most wealthy people in this country do not have overseas investments and therefore no reason to have offshore accounts.

Wealth growth has stagnated or dropped in the U.S. for several reasons:
First, a lot of people are no longer in the “lower” or “middle” classes. Part of that is due to demographics, as I mentioned before. Older people are by far the wealthiest segment of the population in the U.S., because they have the accumulated wealth of a lifetime. At their death, it goes to someone else; usually someone lower than they on the “wealth scale”.

Second, consumerism is not an unmixed blessing. The Popes, from Pope Leo XIII on have condemned it. Why? Well, if you read the Social Encyclicals, you will find that they have explained that consumerism leads to financial and spiritual dependency. It makes wage slaves of its devotees. It is just a fact that during the last couple of decades, consumerism drove the incurring of unsustainable debt. There is nothing at all wrong with being prudent with one’s earnings. Somehow, too many Americans have come to hold their earnings (the hours of their lives, really) as of no value. We have become convinced that the wage of our work has no dignity; that to have any sense of self-worth, we must throw our wages and thus our time on this earth at things the advertizers tell us we simply must have in order to be self-respecting.

I know a good number of middle and even low earners who do not succumb to consumerism. They are precisely the ones who build wealth for themselves and their families. Not all chase mindlessly after the latest thing they saw on television or in a magazine.

There is a proper balance to all of this. One may begin to see it if one reads the Social Encyclicals, which i highly recommend.
 
It’s possible, I suppose, that some VERY wealthy people put their money offshore. But most wealthy people don’t. I know lots of them, and it’s considered an invitation to an IRS audit…which it is. Most wealthy people in this country do not have overseas investments and therefore no reason to have offshore accounts.

Wealth growth has stagnated or dropped in the U.S. for several reasons:
First, a lot of people are no longer in the “lower” or “middle” classes. Part of that is due to demographics, as I mentioned before. Older people are by far the wealthiest segment of the population in the U.S., because they have the accumulated wealth of a lifetime. At their death, it goes to someone else; usually someone lower than they on the “wealth scale”.

Second, consumerism is not an unmixed blessing. The Popes, from Pope Leo XIII on have condemned it. Why? Well, if you read the Social Encyclicals, you will find that they have explained that consumerism leads to financial and spiritual dependency. It makes wage slaves of its devotees. It is just a fact that during the last couple of decades, consumerism drove the incurring of unsustainable debt. There is nothing at all wrong with being prudent with one’s earnings. Somehow, too many Americans have come to hold their earnings (the hours of their lives, really) as of no value. We have become convinced that the wage of our work has no dignity; that to have any sense of self-worth, we must throw our wages and thus our time on this earth at things the advertizers tell us we simply must have in order to be self-respecting.

I know a good number of middle and even low earners who do not succumb to consumerism. They are precisely the ones who build wealth for themselves and their families. Not all chase mindlessly after the latest thing they saw on television or in a magazine.

There is a proper balance to all of this. One may begin to see it if one reads the Social Encyclicals, which i highly recommend.
I’ve already read them, but I live in the United States. The reality of our economy is that it works best when the largest number of citizens have income that allows them to spend on more than just housing, food, medical care and transportation to work.

Consumerism isn’t the ideal according to the Church, but it is the reality that we live in.
 
. . . . I know a good number of middle and even low earners who do not succumb to consumerism. They are precisely the ones who build wealth for themselves and their families. Not all chase mindlessly after the latest thing they saw on television or in a magazine.

There is a proper balance to all of this. One may begin to see it if one reads the Social Encyclicals, which i highly recommend.
Indeed, it seems that nearly anyone could become wealthy over the course of a lifetime by the simple expedient of living below their means.
 
I’ve already read them, but I live in the United States. The reality of our economy is that it works best when the largest number of citizens have income that allows them to spend on more than just housing, food, medical care and transportation to work.

Consumerism isn’t the ideal according to the Church, but it is the reality that we live in.
Does it work best, though, when people spend up all their income on consumer goods? Better still, perhaps, when they borrow to do it? I don’t think either case has been made.

In any event, the Church does not favor it, so I don’t feel I should either.
 
Indeed, it seems that nearly anyone could become wealthy over the course of a lifetime by the simple expedient of living below their means.
Since most self-made millionaires have that as a common characteristic, it is difficult to argue against your proposition.
 
Does it work best, though, when people spend up all their income on consumer goods? Better still, perhaps, when they borrow to do it? I don’t think either case has been made.

In any event, the Church does not favor it, so I don’t feel I should either.
And where did I say they had to spend ALL or even most of their income? People do need to be able to spend to keep the economy humming. When they can’t afford to buy anything and have only enough to keep a roof over their heads and the lights on, there’s not enough demand for goods and services to keep others working. There’s no sin in being able to buy the occasional new pair of jeans or shoes, take a vacation or go out to dinner once in a while.
 
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