Will there be EC in America in 40 years?

[Madaglan]

I’ve heard that, due to declining numbers, Eastern Catholicism essentially will cease to exist in America within the next generation or two.

Do you believe this will happen? Or, is there hope that Eastern Catholicism will survive and possibly even thrive in America?

 

[ciero]

I’ve heard that, due to declining numbers, Eastern Catholicism essentially will cease to exist in America within the next generation or two.

Do you believe this will happen? Or, is there hope that Eastern Catholicism will survive and possibly even thrive in America?

Our vocation as Eastern Catholics is to disappear. We should be working towards being reabsorbed into our mother churches (Orthodox). So hopefully within the next 40 years or so we will have disappeared.

 

[stephe1987]

It would be nice if all the Christians in the next 40 years would come back to Catholicism/Orthodoxy, but that’s not likely to happen. I’d like to see the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches get back in Communion with each other.

 

[ConstantineTG]

It would be nice if all the Christians in the next 40 years would come back to Catholicism/Orthodoxy, but that’s not likely to happen. I’d like to see the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches get back in Communion with each other.

We’re hopeful it will happen in our lifetime. We pray for it.

 

[5Loaves]

Cease to exist? I think it is quite possible. In the US were it not for our immigrants* the Latin Catholic Church *would be closing up their parishes and schools much faster than the current clip. Apart from any other issues, in the US with rare exceptions at the current birth rates we’re also not even replacing ourselves, East and West. As far as I can tell apart from our immigrants, ECs are not reproducing at a rate any higher than most Latin Catholics and that is typically below the “replacement rate”.

(And I’d love for us to disappear back into our mother Churches, in my case the Russian Orthodox, in a universal/catholic communion. I’m pretty old to expect it in my lifetime…)

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m pretty old to expect it in my lifetime…)

Never lose hope. It just might happen.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I think Eastern Catholics (I refer hear to those of the Byzantine tradition) would have more of a chance of survival in the U.S. if they would lay aside their nationalistic differences and unite under one Patriarch or Metropolitan with one Synod of Bishops in order to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ with one voice (I suppose the same could be said for American Orthodoxy). Too often I hear of parishes that are dieing out because they are more concerned with maintaining the cultural atmosphere of the “old country” than they are with evangelizing and witnessing to the Gospel in this country. Believe me, I understand having nostalgia for the place of one’s birth. But that nostalgia ought not to prevent us from being fully present and fully evangelistic in the place we find ourselves today.

Do I think Eastern Catholics will disappear in this country in 40 years? No. With the new wave if immigration from the Middle-East, I think we will see an initial strengthening of Eastern Catholicism. If, however, we cannot overcome our tendencies towards nationalism and our nostalgia for the “old country,” then I do believe that Eastern Catholicism in the West in general is doomed.

 

[5Loaves]

Do I think Eastern Catholics will disappear in this country in 40 years? No. With the new wave if immigration from the Middle-East, I think we will see an initial strengthening of Eastern Catholicism. If, however, we cannot overcome our tendencies towards nationalism and our nostalgia for the “old country,” then I do believe that Eastern Catholicism in the West in general is doomed.

I just don’t want to have to sit in a chair or a pew as was my experience here in CA with largely Middle Eastern Melkite and Chaldean parishes. I do love hearing, praying in some Church Slavonic…

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I just don’t want to have to sit in a chair or a pew as was my experience here in CA with largely Middle Eastern Melkite and Chaldean parishes. I do love hearing, praying in some Church Slavonic…

Amen. Although I’ll admit that Church Slavonic isn’t really my thing. I prefer Greek. But hey, that’s only a preference. I’d much rather have the Liturgy beautifully translated and sung in my own native tongue. Whether the singing is in the Byzantine modes, the Russian, Kievan or Ruthenian tones, or whatever is of secondary importance to me, so long as it’s well done and continues to uplift the soul to God. In the end “beauty will save the world.”

 

[Frank_J]

Maybe it is time for EC to return to it’s true Mother Church!!

 

[ciero]

Maybe it is time for EC to return to it’s true Mother Church!!

We’re working on it Frank!

 

[Alexander_Roman]

The problem with that in Eastern Europe is that the ROC asserts that EC’s should return to it as their Mother Church.

And the ROC is not the Mother Church of those Orthodox of the Kyivan and other Churches that came into union with Rome in 1596, 1700 and later.

The question here is about the extent to which the EC’s can culturally adapt to North America so that when its members assimilate into mainstream society, they don’t reject their Eastern Catholic identity as part and parcel of that process.

Perhaps it is true that if the EC experience can be lived in its entirety in English, this will go a long way.

But I suspect that there are many who would pine for the cultural experience of their EC background as well.

Alex

 

[ConstantineTG]

So establishing something sort of a “North American Church” is probably the solution?

 

[AndyP2010]

So establishing something sort of a “North American Church” is probably the solution?

If I take your meaning here correctly, that would only make since if all Catholics of both east and west in North America where united under a N. A. rite church (in communion with Rome), with maybe a patriarchal seat in Mexico City.

 

[ciero]

if i take your meaning here correctly, that would only make since if all catholics of both east and west in north america where united under a n. A. Rite church (in communion with rome), with maybe a patriarchal seat in mexico city.

god no!!

 

[Seamus_L]

It’s funny, but for all the times I’ve heard the online stories of traditional RC’s coming into EC churches and offending people, I’ve seldom seen the one’s where it was OICWR crowd offending the cradle EC’s (and I know it happens) with disparaging comments about the church’s ethnic flavor being too strong. Sometimes you just have to ask the question, if ethnic parishes are such a bad thing, how can you explain the success of the very ethnic Greek Orthodox churches, who often put on bigger and better festivals-carnivals than the much larger nearby RC parish.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

So establishing something sort of a “North American Church” is probably the solution?

That probably won’t happen. What should happen is a cultural adaptation of EC Churches to North American mainstream culture (sans the liberalism in values etc.).

Our local Coptic Orthodox parish of St Mark of Alexandria has an English-language Liturgy and I know a Chinese neighbour of mine who attends, has become Coptic Orthodox and reads the daily, long Agpeya horological prayers in English.

They are quite beautiful and are available online, as you know: www.agpeya.org

Alex

 

[Alexander_Roman]

It’s funny, but for all the times I’ve heard the online stories of traditional RC’s coming into EC churches and offending people, I’ve seldom seen the one’s where it was OICWR crowd offending the cradle EC’s (and I know it happens) with disparaging comments about the church’s ethnic flavor being too strong. Sometimes you just have to ask the question, if ethnic parishes are such a bad thing, how can you explain the success of the very ethnic Greek Orthodox churches, who often put on bigger and better festivals-carnivals than the much larger nearby RC parish.

That is a truly magnificent and excellent point, sir!

Our Coptic people have a great Coptic festival which attracts one and all. Our Greektown with its overt Orthodox Christian character brings in all kinds of people as well.

You raise another point that is not often even brought up, namely how the very “Eastern minded” or if I may use your term the “OICWR” do indeed offend cradle EC’s in this way.

In fact, cradle EC’s have Western traditions that come from the “old country” that they are not only very comfortable with but which ALSO reflect their cultural identity.

For example, under Tsarism, whenever an Eastern Catholic area was taken over by Tsarist troops, the first order of business was to “reunite” EC’s with their “Mother Orthodox (read: Russian) Church.”

The first things to go were the Western traditions and so the EC’s tended to jealously guard them since it seemed to them that as long as they had them they maintained their religious and cultural identity.

For the “OICWR” (and some of my best friends belong to this group ), their “culture” if you will is the pristine Orthodox religious one. However, no religion comes without a culture and so Cradel EC’s (or CEC’s) become very disturbed by what they perceive to be a soft importing of Russian culture into their church.

It’s all much more complex than I’ve related, but you are right to raise these points, sir.

I take my hat off to you.

Alex

 

[malphono]

What should happen is a cultural adaptation of EC Churches to North American mainstream culture (sans the liberalism in values etc.).

This is likely a minority opinion, but I doubt that would be a good idea.

All of the Eastern and Oriental Churches were born of their various and particular ethnic cultures, and without same they would never have survived. If one tries to “Americanize” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) them, the culture will be killed.

Take away the ethno-cultural heritage, and the result will be another “American” hamburger: it looks like meat, but its contents are questionable (to put it nicely), and when put to the test, it falls apart. There’s sufficient blandness in American “culture” (just as in “American” (or “Canadian”) food) already. We certainly don’t need more. IOW, one Novus Ordo is more than enough.

How long does one think such a Church (or Churches), separated from its roots, would last? Yes I know all the “oh, it’s the Eastern spirituality that’s important” and other such things, but those arguments only go so far. I still say kill the culture, kill the Church.

Just my unsolicited :twocents:

 

[Madaglan]

The problem with that in Eastern Europe is that the ROC asserts that EC’s should return to it as their Mother Church.

And the ROC is not the Mother Church of those Orthodox of the Kyivan and other Churches that came into union with Rome in 1596, 1700 and later.

The question here is about the extent to which the EC’s can culturally adapt to North America so that when its members assimilate into mainstream society, they don’t reject their Eastern Catholic identity as part and parcel of that process.

Perhaps it is true that if the EC experience can be lived in its entirety in English, this will go a long way.

But I suspect that there are many who would pine for the cultural experience of their EC background as well.

Alex

Very interesting post. I went to Ruthenian/Carpatho-Rusyn churches before attending an OCA church, and something I notice is that the Carpatho-Rusyn and Ruthenian side tends to distinguish itself from the Russians, while the Russian side does not make this distinction, and generally speaks in terms of “Russian” and “Byzantine”. Personally, I sometimes think the Russianization of many Ruthenian churches that became Orthodox is overlooked.