Will this atheist go to hell?

[Ignatius]

#1 We should be eveangelizing more, each and every one of us.

Amen!

 

[Genesis315]

Supernatural faith is absolutely necessary for salvation–this is the constant doctrine of the Church. We do not believe in salvation by works alone. That’s why Lumen Gentium, when discussing non-Catholics, first describes who can possible be saved (non-Catholic monotheists who can have supernatural faith towards God), and then discusses atheists and idolators as those who will be given the helps necessary for salvation if they keep searching–in fact, Lumen Gentium said these should be the primary target of missionaries for that reason.
So, if the person in the OP persevered unto death in their denial of God (who draws all men to Himself), that person would be damned.

However, it is my belief that that person would receive the light and grace necessary for supernatural faith at some point in life, even right before death–since all people will be given an opportunity for salvation–and if that person makes an act of faith, even in that split second before death, that person would be saved–if not, they wouldn’t.

So the final answer is only God will know.

 

[Ignatius]

Here is a scenario for you, about a fictional character named Jane. According to Catholic theology, will this person go to hell?

Well, iIf you’d bother to study Catholic theology, you’d see plainly that no one but God knows who is going to hell.

 

[Genesis315]

The Second Vatican Council was supposed to be that great evangelization campaign–read all the documents and you’ll see that as the overarching theme. People haven’t responded because we’re all sinners who care more about worldly things than the eternal–we need to subject the flesh to the spirit–and even when we do good, we just spread kingdom values, instead of the actual kingdom for that same reason. Pope Benedict talks about it a bit here.

To the members of the Episcopal Conference of Canada-Ontario on their “ad Limina” visit September 8, 2006

“In this regard, we must acknowledge that any reduction of the core message of Jesus, that is, the ‘Kingdom of God’, to indefinite talk of ‘kingdom values’ weakens Christian identity and debilitates the Church’s contribution to the regeneration of society. When believing is replaced by ‘doing’ and witness by talk of ‘issues’, there is an urgent need to recapture the profound joy and awe of the first disciples whose hearts, in the Lord’s presence, “burned within them” impelling them to “tell their story” (cf. Lk 24:32; 35).”

 

[mschrank]

Her non-belief in God is mostly on account of intellectual questioning - and not getting sufficient answers.

Well then Catholicism can’t be true, or Jane isn’t looking hard enough? Odd scenario. If its honestly possible to ask questions hard enough to “break” Catholicism (i.e., lead to contradictions ad obvious errors), then it’s not true.

Alternatively, she might have been given some bad advice. Result = purgatory.

Or, perhaps she just does not like the idea of God and Jesus, it repulses her for various reasons, for example, the idea of not being in complete control of her body and talents, or having someone tell her “no”, or perhaps the idea of human knowledge only going so far. In other words, a blatant rejection of Christ. Result = hell.

BTW, We can’t judge a soul because we cannot which of the above scenarios someone falls into. Not because you can truly hate Christ and even then go to heaven.

 

[blessed_wife]

One day, she is killed in a car accident, and through the powers of the omniscient narrator (me), we know she persisted in her non-belief in a diety to her death. (In other words, there was no last-second repentance.)

Excuse me, but the last part of your scenario is so far fetched and impossible. No one knows if there was a last second repentance but our Omnipotent Lord who you certainly are not. I believe God loves each of us so much that He came to this Earth as a humble babe and then suffered and died for us on the Cross that we may be washed of our sins. He endured all of that pain and suffering out of love for each individual soul who He created for love, hope, joy and all that is good in life. Because of that kind of Infinite Love, I believe our Lord is postponing His Second Coming so more souls will repent for their sins and accept Him when He comes. Because of that kind of Infinite Love again, I believe our Lord gives each individual soul the final chance to either accept Him or deny Him right before they die. In fact, I encourage you to read the Diary of St. Faustina who our Lord came to and told that He does in fact give each soul such an opportunity for repentence before they finally decide and choose to go to Hell.

 

[Dauphin]

I have a couple follow up questions, if you’re willing:

#1: Considering the vast number of educated people who aren’t Catholic or convert away from Catholicism or are atheists like Jane - why isn’t the Church encouraging massive evangelization campaigns? I mean, it would be like seeing someone in a burning building and not sending in the fire fighters to rescue him/her. In other words, I see a bit of a disconnect there - the Church’s, as well as induvidual Catholics, don’t really seem all that concerned about the potential billions who are a few decades away from eternal suffering.

The Church does encourage evangelization. Evangelisation is the spreading of the Gospel. However, since most people in the western world are aware of the gospel, there is little more that can be done to spread it. If people insist in staying in the burning building, there’s little the Church can do about it, aside from another inquisition.

#2: I’m confused about how we could reconcile a good God with sending Jane to hell. She’s clearly a nice person, who has done no great crime. She’s taken Church/God very seriously, which is much more than we can say for many of the lazy religious people out there who don’t give the faith they were born into much thought. I mean, it just doesn’t seem right to throw someone into a firey dungeon for the rest of eternity when they’ve lived a kind and honest life like Jane has.

Thanks.

Heaven is not an entitlement. We shouldn’t expect to go there as if it’s our ‘right’. If someone rejects the grace of God, which calls every person to acknowledge Him as our creator and to follow His will, they are eminently qualified for hell.

 

[mschrank]

BTW, heaven is Jesus. If you dislike him, “heaven” is going to be hell for you.

 

[Exalt]

BTW, heaven is Jesus. If you dislike him, “heaven” is going to be hell for you.

Jane is a loving and kind person. Her position is that Heaven doesn’t exist, not that she wouldn’t like it if she turned out she was wrong - or that she wouldn’t like to go there.

 

[Exalt]

Excuse me, but the last part of your scenario is so far fetched and impossible. No one knows if there was a last second repentance but our Omnipotent Lord who you certainly are not. I believe God loves each of us so much that He came to this Earth as a humble babe and then suffered and died for us on the Cross that we may be washed of our sins. He endured all of that pain and suffering out of love for each individual soul who He created for love, hope, joy and all that is good in life. Because of that kind of Infinite Love, I believe our Lord is postponing His Second Coming so more souls will repent for their sins and accept Him when He comes.

That’s a pretty bold statement. But isn’t God also allowing a great number of people to be sent to *hell *too, along with heaven?

Because of that kind of Infinite Love again, I believe our Lord gives each individual soul the final chance to either accept Him or deny Him right before they die.

Is this official Catholic teaching? And what form does this last-instant offer take? Could you give some more details?

In fact, I encourage you to read the Diary of St. Faustina who our Lord came to and told that He does in fact give each soul such an opportunity for repentence before they finally decide and choose to go to Hell.

Interesting. I’ll go check my library for it after I finish reading a few books I’ve checked out/bought recently.

 

[Exalt]

Heaven is not an entitlement. We shouldn’t expect to go there as if it’s our ‘right’. If someone rejects the grace of God, which calls every person to acknowledge Him as our creator and to follow His will, they are eminently qualified for hell.

Healthcare is a right. Food and shelter is a right. Life - even the lives of human beings at the stage of blastocysts - is a right. Those are all rights according to Catholic teaching.

But not saving Jane from eternal torment forever and ever is *not *a right?

I’m really confused here.

 

[po18guy]

Anyone? I’m very curious and am having trouble finding a definative Catholic theological response.

That is because there is not one. The Church has never definitively stated that anyone is in hell. I refer you to the Lord God. He is the only one who can answer that.

But, He has already. He sent His beloved Son - not to condemn, but to save. A person such as Jane condemns themselves by their rejection of the truth.

God alone knows our hearts at the time of death. He alone judges. Why do you ask? No, really? This has just a whiff of separatist trick question in it.

Christ’s peace.

 

[po18guy]

I have a couple follow up questions, if you’re willing:

#1: Considering the vast number of educated people who aren’t Catholic or convert away from Catholicism or are atheists like Jane - why isn’t the Church encouraging massive evangelization campaigns? I mean, it would be like seeing someone in a burning building and not sending in the fire fighters to rescue him/her. In other words, I see a bit of a disconnect there - the Church’s, as well as induvidual Catholics, don’t really seem all that concerned about the potential billions who are a few decades away from eternal suffering.

Well, you’re here, instead of evangelizing. So, by your actions, you apparently believe that Catholics are going to hell.

#2: I’m confused about how we could reconcile a good God with sending Jane to hell. She’s clearly a nice person, who has done no great crime. She’s taken Church/God very seriously, which is much more than we can say for many of the lazy religious people out there who don’t give the faith they were born into much thought. I mean, it just doesn’t seem right to throw someone into a firey dungeon for the rest of eternity when they’ve lived a kind and honest life like Jane has. Thanks.

Your confusion stems from the fact that you do not have Christ physically present in your church - only the book written about Him. Confusion is only natural if you do not have the entire picture. That is why the Lord sent you here. Not to us, but to the church His Beloved Son founded.

Examine scripture as a whole, not just in bits and pieces. See how God has punished even his chosen, his favored, for their disobedience. Your concept of OSAS is a twisting of scripture and puts the Lord, your God to the test. Christ said not to do that.

You cannot judge Christ’s church by its worst adherents. Judge it by the truth she teaches.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Exalt]

Well, you’re here, instead of evangelizing. So, by your actions, you apparently believe that Catholics are going to hell.

I don’t believe in hell. (Edit: And if I did, I don’t think I could bring myself to believe that good people, including good Catholics, are going to hell. I’d take some pretty convincing evidence to convince me otherwise.)

Your confusion stems from the fact that you do not have Christ physically present in your church - only the book written about Him.

I’m actually an atheist myself and, naturally, don’t go to church.

Confusion is only natural if you do not have the entire picture. That is why the Lord sent you here. Not to us, but to the church His Beloved Son founded.

Examine scripture as a whole, not just in bits and pieces. See how God has punished even his chosen, his favored, for their disobedience. Your concept of OSAS is a twisting of scripture and puts the Lord, your God to the test. Christ said not to do that.

You cannot judge Christ’s church by its worst adherents. Judge it by the truth she teaches.

Christ’s peace.

What does OSAS mean?

And I’ve actually taken a number of scripture classes at my university. They were more of the scientific, objective type, though, that didn’t assume any particular religious viewpoint.

 

[Exalt]

That is because there is not one. The Church has never definitively stated that anyone is in hell. I refer you to the Lord God. He is the only one who can answer that.

But, He has already. He sent His beloved Son - not to condemn, but to save. A person such as Jane condemns themselves by their rejection of the truth.

God alone knows our hearts at the time of death. He alone judges. Why do you ask? No, really? This has just a whiff of separatist trick question in it.

Christ’s peace.

Why do I ask? I’m very curious about religion; I majored in the study of it. It’s one thing to talk about religion in the classroom, another to visit them in thier places of worship, and a complete other to talk to them in cyberspace.

I post on a Muslim forum, a Morman forum, and an agnostic forum. In addition to this one, that is.

 

[po18guy]

I don’t believe in hell.

No, but it certainly believes in YOU!

I’m actually an atheist myself and, naturally, don’t go to church.

Sorry! My apologies. You sounded like an OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved Evangelical Christian). OK, so why worry about hell at all? UNLESS, you have just a tiny suspicion, a nagging doubt about its non-existence. This is healthy skepticism, to doubt one’s doubts.

And I’ve actually taken a number of scripture classes at my university. They were more of the scientific, objective type, though, that didn’t assume any particular religious viewpoint.

Nor, apparently, did they teach any. Such a sterile, non-spiritual examination by non-believers, of such deeply spiritual, Divinely inspired writings, borders on intellectual malpractice!

Listen to Father John Corapi sometime.You can find him on YouTube. He went from great physical wealth and spiritual poverty all the way to the depths of depravity, then to renouncing material possessions and craving spiritual wealth. As one who has seen every possible aspect of life, he is an excellent teacher.

This will make you laugh, but I am absolutely convinced that God sent you here. That is how He works.

Peace be with you.

 

[po18guy]

Why do I ask? I’m very curious about religion; I majored in the study of it. It’s one thing to talk about religion in the classroom, another to visit them in thier places of worship, and a complete other to talk to them in cyberspace.

I post on a Muslim forum, a Morman forum, and an agnostic forum. In addition to this one, that is.

And all of them will tell you that they have the truth. Test everything, retain what is good. We look forward to a pleasant, challenging conversation. It will be good for all of us.

Peace.

 

[po18guy]

Healthcare is a right. Food and shelter is a right. Life - even the lives of human beings at the stage of blastocysts - is a right. Those are all rights according to Catholic teaching. But not saving Jane from eternal torment forever and ever is *not *a right? I’m really confused here.

Now, I understand your confusion. None of the above is a constitutional right. They are responsibilities. First, the mature individual has the responsibility to provide all of the above for him/herself. Our faith teaches that we are to be productive if able. If not, the rest of us have the responsibility to care for brothers and sisters who are in legitimate need. We are drowning in classes and groups of individual who demand their “rights”. They conveniently ignore the complementary responsibility that accompanies each right. That is not well taught in this day and age.

 

[po18guy]

I have a couple follow up questions, if you’re willing:

#1: Considering the vast number of educated people who aren’t Catholic or convert away from Catholicism or are atheists like Jane - why isn’t the Church encouraging massive evangelization campaigns? I mean, it would be like seeing someone in a burning building and not sending in the fire fighters to rescue him/her. In other words, I see a bit of a disconnect there - the Church’s, as well as induvidual Catholics, don’t really seem all that concerned about the potential billions who are a few decades away from eternal suffering.

#2: I’m confused about how we could reconcile a good God with sending Jane to hell. She’s clearly a nice person, who has done no great crime. She’s taken Church/God very seriously, which is much more than we can say for many of the lazy religious people out there who don’t give the faith they were born into much thought. I mean, it just doesn’t seem right to throw someone into a firey dungeon for the rest of eternity when they’ve lived a kind and honest life like Jane has.

Thanks.

Exalt, it is eery to take note of the parallels between your questions, as an atheist, and those of certain “sola fide”, “sola scriptura”, OSAS and bible Christians! The similarities are sobering. It gives me pause, and leads me to reflect on those parallels.

 

[Mijoy2]

Exalt, you are never rude. I thank you for that. But you have a very mistaken concept of Catholic theology.

I realize that many fundamentalists will declare who is in heaven or hell. Catholic don’t do that because we don’t put our selves in the place of God. Only He can make such judgements.

None of us can answer your question. That is up to God to decide.

I must second this. One of the many things I am greatful for in our Catholic Faith, is the idea that I do not have to make this decision. I can trust that the decision that is made is made justly. Else, there is no point to believing in an unjust God.

I can hope for Jane, and pray for Jane.