Will Venezuale be better off without Chavez?

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Reformed_Rob

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I’ve got mixed feelings about this. Part of me wants to say that Hugo Chavez did great things, a lot of the people loved him, and that area of the world will suffer with him not being Communist leader. Or at least that Chavez would be better than practically any likely alternative.

Then another side of me thinks that it was past time for him to lose power, and what good he did is overshadowed by just the badness of his governmental system.

What are your thoughts?
 
Yes they will be better of. The thing is, will this “defeat” deter him. I think not. Marxists like Chavez do not go quietly. I expect a violent overthrow of the government (a favorite tactic of Marxists) in a year or so.
 
It would be better off without him, but I think you are counting him out way too soon. I doubt that he will go either gracefully or peacefully.
 
WanderAimlessly said:
I expect a violent overthrow of the government (a favorite tactic of Marxists) in a year or so.
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:confused: Are you predicting Marxists will overthrow the Chavez government, or that others will be inspired by favorite Marxist tactics and do likewise?
 
It will be interesting to see what happens. And even more interesting to see what sides other countries take on the matter.
 
Reformed_Rob said:
I’ve got mixed feelings about this. Part of me wants to say that Hugo Chavez did great things, a lot of the people loved him, and that area of the world will suffer with him not being Communist leader. Or at least that Chavez would be better than practically any likely alternative.
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I am not familiar with other leading poltical figures in Venezuela, but it’s hard for me to believe there wasn’t one who would have done a better job than Chavez. Although he is a popular figure at the moment and was recently re-elected, in large part this is due not to any laudable policies on his part, but to the high price of oil and resulting booming economy in the country. There is entrenched corruption, severe restrictions on freedom of the press, and rather than reinvesting the current windfall in the country, he is squandering much of it on foreign adventurism. I do not share your mixed feelings.
 
WanderAimlessly said:
Yes they will be better of. The thing is, will this “defeat” deter him. I think not. Marxists like Chavez do not go quietly. I expect a violent overthrow of the government (a favorite tactic of Marxists) in a year or so.
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He already has control of the government, including a hand-picked Supreme Court. This “defeat” did not change anything for him; it just slowed down his aquisition of even more power. As it stands, he is president until 2012. If there is a “violent overthrow” it will likely be the military who does it. Chavez came from the military but they seem to be losing patience with him. The opposisition that wants a return to a more democratic government is very disorganized and splintered. They are a long way away from mounting a real resistance.
 
Corki said:
He already has control of the government, including a hand-picked Supreme Court. This “defeat” did not change anything for him; it just slowed down his aquisition of even more power. As it stands, he is president until 2012. If there is a “violent overthrow” it will likely be the military who does it.
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Why are we critical of individuals when they take power in the realm of the state, but not critical of individuals when they take such power in the religious realm?
 
Well here is his Concession speech at 1:30 am … Monday Dec. 3.

Here is a quote, he is commenting on the turmoil that could result if he were to actually wait until the final 10% of ballots to be counted. This would have dragged the process on at least 3 more days, and would not have changed the outcome of the election. He recounts how history shows the negative effects those couple days can have on a nation, and he says…
Back to my point. I say this, and I say it with a content conscience, I say it with infinite tranquility and a very clear conscience, that I prefer it this way. I couldn’t have, my principles, **my principles mean more than anything, I wouldn’t have been able to bear the doubt, the great doubt that would’ve remained if Chávez had one the YES vote by 0.4% after three days **and with the balance coming from outside the country or manual ballots coming from Sabaneta or Elorza, or Alto Apure. No! I couldn’t have tolerated it. But now I’m going to go sleep peacefully a few hours this morning, and I ask that all of you go to your homes and those want to celebrate, celebrate!
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Emphasis is in the original.
 
Reformed_Rob said:
Well here is his Concession speech at 1:30 am … Monday Dec. 3.

Here is a quote, he is commenting on the turmoil that could result if he were to actually wait until the final 10% of ballots to be counted. This would have dragged the process on at least 3 more days, and would not have changed the outcome of the election. He recounts how history shows the negative effects those couple days can have on a nation, and he says…

Emphasis is in the original.
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You took some care to construct that post, but I couldn’t figure out the point you are trying to make.:confused:
 
Digitonomy said:
You took some care to construct that post, but I couldn’t figure out the point you are trying to make.:confused:
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My point, and you would have to go to the site to read more of his speech, but my point is that he is following what the “arbitrator” has decided. The arbitrator being the voting people. He gives an example when something happened before, a referendum came up and passed, many in his party said “stop it, don’t let this happen” and he said “no I will not stand in the way of what the majority call for.”

My point is, he is conceding to the will of the nation. Although there were relatively few votes he lost by. He realizes that the other small percentage of the late and out of country votes will not change the result, so he is not waiting until all votes are counted.
 
The free world must CLANDESTINELY and PEACEFULLY work to undermine his regime.

Yes, he was “elected by the people,”
but his will is to turn the country into a one-party Marxist dictatorship, and that must not be allowed, regardless of whether the people “elected” him. After all, Hitler was “elected,” too.

Venezuela needs a freely elected, democratic President with a strong commitment to both social justice AND personal and political and religious FREEDOM.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Gee, how nice of him not to wait for the out-of-country votes to come in. Especially since most of those are the people who can’t get jobs in thier fields in Venezuela anymore since they are “blacklisted” after they signed the petition that led to the 2004 referendum vote. I am sure that they voted in favor of increasing his power (not). By not waiting to certify the vote, he doesn’t have to publicize the final numbers which are not likely to have quite so narrow a margin.
 
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