Will we lose Catholics?

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4HisChurch

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Do you think the Church will loose Catholics over the latest statement reiterating Church teaching about the primacy of the Church that stated, among other things, that Protestant groups should “not being called Churches in the proper sense”? I’ve read and heard so many misconceptions about this simple document that does not change doctrine.

I can’t help but think of the Holy Father’s words about a smaller church:
“Maybe we are facing a new and different kind of epoch in the church’s history, where Christianity will again be characterized more by the mustard seed, where it will exist in small, seemingly insignificant groups that nonetheless live an intense struggle against evil and bring good into the world - that let God in.”
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I wonder if those on the periphery of the Church–those “cafeteria Catholics”–are going to drop away after the motu proprio and the recent “Response to Some Questions” document. Or, if not “drop away”, I’m wondering if there will be more open infighting…

Anyone have any thoughts?
 
No one said that Protestant groups can’t be called ‘churches’. What was said was that those groups do not meet the qualifications of ‘church’ according to Catholic doctrine.
 
Ahimsa said:
No one said that Protestant groups can’t be called ‘churches’. What was said was that those groups do not meet the qualifications of ‘church’ according to Catholic doctrine.
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(Just to give the specific point in question)

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

FIFTH QUESTION
Why do the texts of the Council and those of the Magisterium since the Council not use the title of “Church” with regard to those Christian Communities born out of the Reformation of the sixteenth century?
RESPONSE
According to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery[19] cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called “Churches” in the proper sense[20].
 
Ahimsa said:
No one said that Protestant groups can’t be called ‘churches’. What was said was that those groups do not meet the qualifications of ‘church’ according to Catholic doctrine.
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Oh, I know. But many people are misinterpreting it, or, taking offense to it anyway.

Edited to add: Felicity is right. I actually quoted directly from the document itself on that point.
 
4HisChurch said:
Do you think the Church will loose Catholics over the latest statement reiterating Church teaching about the primacy of the Church that stated, among other things, that Protestant groups should “not being called Churches in the proper sense”? I’ve read and heard so many misconceptions about this simple document that does not change doctrine.

I can’t help but think of the Holy Father’s words about a smaller church:

I wonder if those on the periphery of the Church–those “cafeteria Catholics”–are going to drop away after the motu proprio and the recent “Response to Some Questions” document. Or, if not “drop away”, I’m wondering if there will be more open infighting…

Anyone have any thoughts?
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In my opinion, an increase in othodoxy could have an initial impact, but the Truth is so sweet that people would actually be drawn to it in multitudes.
 
4HisChurch said:
I wonder if those on the periphery of the Church–those “cafeteria Catholics”–are going to drop away after the motu proprio and the recent “Response to Some Questions” document. Or, if not “drop away”, I’m wondering if there will be more open infighting…
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I would be surprised if either came about. The persons who get labelled “cafeteria Catholics” often have strong Catholic identities.

And I don’t think the motu proprio will have much effect on the Church as a whole. There is a segment of Catholics for whom this is very important but they probably are a small minority of all Catholics.
 
If there is persecution over this, I believe it will lead to more vocations! I think vocations flourish when there are challenges.
—KCT
 
Dale_M said:
I would be surprised if either came about. The persons who get labelled “cafeteria Catholics” often have strong Catholic identities.

And I don’t think the motu proprio will have much effect on the Church as a whole. There is a segment of Catholics for whom this is very important but they probably are a small minority of all Catholics.
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There are times when I think you are right in your predictions, Dale.
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KCT:
If there is persecution over this, I believe it will lead to more vocations! I think vocations flourish when there are challenges.
—KCT
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I think that is true as well. We are already seeing an increase in vocations among the more orthodox orders. Praise be God!
 
Catholics who would leave over this have deeper issues–in some cases, it might be in their good to go out into the desert for a while and then return.
 
Genesis315 said:
Catholics who would leave over this have deeper issues–in some cases, it might be in their good to go out into the desert for a while and then return.
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Very true. God works in mysterious (to us) ways, and He continually calls us back.
 
In all honesty, I really don’t think people really care what the Pope said. I suspect that if you did a poll of the unchurched catholics in america, few ever read what he says.

Remember the Da Vinci Code? Everyone was up in arms and it was forgoten a week later. I suspect the same of recent events.

Nohome
 
Ahimsa said:
No one said that Protestant groups can’t be called ‘churches’. What was said was that those groups do not meet the qualifications of ‘church’ according to Catholic doctrine.
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I do… and I have said it often:D

I often include in my posts that the more correct term is faith community. The original meaning of the word Church applied only to that group who belonged to “…I will build my church…”

Over time, other groups have “borrowed” the word church to include in their own named group. That was an abuse of the word which is now the norm.

Good for the Pope to really open the doors for more conversations that truly defends the uniqueness of the Catholic Church.

He has NOT shut the door, he has opened it wide.

God Bless him.

.
 
4HisChurch said:
Do you think the Church will loose Catholics over the latest statement reiterating Church teaching about the primacy of the Church that stated, among other things
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**
Not me, I’m with the "ROCK " until I breathe my last, after that it’ll be up to God where I go.**
 
MrS said:
I do… and I have said it often:D

I often include in my posts that the more correct term is faith community. The original meaning of the word Church applied only to that group who belonged to “…I will build my church…”

Over time, other groups have “borrowed” the word church to include in their own named group. That was an abuse of the word which is now the norm.

Good for the Pope to really open the doors for more conversations that truly defends the uniqueness of the Catholic Church.

He has NOT shut the door, he has opened it wide.

God Bless him.

.
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Just as some faith communities have also borrowed the term “Apostolic”. I’m sure they mean “follow our interpretation of the Protestant Bible” rather than “can trace directly back to the Apostles.”
 
Nohome said:
In all honesty, I really don’t think people really care what the Pope said. I suspect that if you did a poll of the unchurched catholics in america, few ever read what he says.

Remember the Da Vinci Code? Everyone was up in arms and it was forgoten a week later. I suspect the same of recent events.

Nohome
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The key word here is “unchurched.” Those are the people that were born and baptised Catholic and being “Catholic” to them is something they like to identify with in name only. IMO, they have given up the right to “care what the pope says.” It’s kind of like not voting and then complaining about who gets into office.
 
4HisChurch said:
Do you think the Church will loose Catholics over the latest statement reiterating Church teaching about the primacy of the Church that stated, among other things, that Protestant groups should “not being called Churches in the proper sense”? I’ve read and heard so many misconceptions about this simple document that does not change doctrine.

I can’t help but think of the Holy Father’s words about a smaller church:

I wonder if those on the periphery of the Church–those “cafeteria Catholics”–are going to drop away after the motu proprio and the recent “Response to Some Questions” document. Or, if not “drop away”, I’m wondering if there will be more open infighting…

Anyone have any thoughts?
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1. More infighting - much more. Probably. It depends how tolerant of one another people are prepared to be.​

  1. Whatever happened, or did not happen, after Dominus Iesus was published in 1998, will probably happen, or not happen, now.
  2. If people managed to get along without bothering too much about Rome before, they can probably carry on & ignore Rome now. It will probably be harder for the clergy to ignore Rome - but easy enough for most laity to manage doing so. Don’t underestimate the power of boredom & apathy 🙂
  3. How much of a practical issue for Catholics is the status of other Churches ? As much of an issue as Humanae Vitae was ? Less, probably - yet people have managed to ignore that; so this will probably be of even less practical importance.
 
No Catholic, especially the clergy and most especially the Holy Father, can approach questions concerning the doctrine of the Faith, and ask themselves is this going to be popular?
 
4HisChurch said:
Do you think the Church will loose Catholics over the latest statement reiterating Church teaching about the primacy of the Church that stated, among other things, that Protestant groups should “not being called Churches in the proper sense”? I’ve read and heard so many misconceptions about this simple document that does not change doctrine.

I can’t help but think of the Holy Father’s words about a smaller church:

I wonder if those on the periphery of the Church–those “cafeteria Catholics”–are going to drop away after the motu proprio and the recent “Response to Some Questions” document. Or, if not “drop away”, I’m wondering if there will be more open infighting…

Anyone have any thoughts?
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No, we can’t lose Catholics, once baptized they are in Christ, now they may throw thier salvation away, but that is a different issue.
As long as we continue to teach the same doctrine, the same truth we are secured as a Church as Crist promised.
As other non-Catholic churches water down thier doctrine to meet the whims of secular society we will probably gain Catholics. 👍
 
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