Will you be in heaven?

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LutheranStudent:
Will you be in heaven?
In Lutheran circles, it is safe to say, we are taught to know with confidence that we will be in heaven when we die. Keeping our own sinfulness in mind and not out of sinful pride we confess it because to say we “might” be in heaven would be akin to saying that Jesus “might have” paid for all our sins completely. How would you answer this question?

A) Yes, because Christ Jesus has assured us that whoever lives and believes in him shall never die.
B) Maybe. Nobody can tell for sure that God will send them to heaven because in the end it’s God’s judgement call.
C) No. I don’t believe that I am good enough to get to heaven or that God’s promise includes also me.
Here is my take on your ? as a catholic. I was saved when Jesus died on the cross, I’m being save and I’m sure trying my hardest to work with the grace of God in the hopes of being save when I die. That basically summarizes everything.
 
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gryskull:
Here is my take on your ? as a catholic. I was saved when Jesus died on the cross, I’m being save and I’m sure trying my hardest to work with the grace of God in the hopes of being save when I die. That basically summarizes everything.
Wow, thats exactly how we say we are saved!
 
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LutheranStudent:
In Lutheran circles, it is safe to say, we are taught to know with confidence that we will be in heaven when we die. Keeping our own sinfulness in mind and not out of sinful pride we confess it because to say we “might” be in heaven would be akin to saying that Jesus “might have” paid for all our sins completely.
Certainly I believe that Jesus paid for all our sins completely. Yet he allows us to accept or reject that gift. And because free will is not removed from us when we accept Him, it does remain possible to reject Him as long as we are alive.

After all, if nothing at all were required on our part, then nothing would be required of us, even Faith. Salvation would be automatic, since He died to pay for our sins, and paid the debt completely.
 
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MariaG:
That will work! Especially from you. I seem to frequently post/read your name as Mrs S instead of MrS. And I only notice it too late to edit the problem. We both have been around long enough that you think I would have stopped being a bone head about your name by now!

God Bless,
Maria
yep, they have one for that too… but it is really my fault that I choosehttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_4_107.gifto use Mr. S… that is what my highschoolers call me… much easier than my Italian last name which people tend to have difficulty with.

so… no problem here, Maria. God bless you too
 
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LutheranStudent:
Will you be in heaven?
In Lutheran circles, it is safe to say, we are taught to know with confidence that we will be in heaven when we die. Keeping our own sinfulness in mind and not out of sinful pride we confess it because to say we “might” be in heaven would be akin to saying that Jesus “might have” paid for all our sins completely. How would you answer this question?

A) Yes, because Christ Jesus has assured us that whoever lives and believes in him shall never die.
B) Maybe. Nobody can tell for sure that God will send them to heaven because in the end it’s God’s judgement call.
C) No. I don’t believe that I am good enough to get to heaven or that God’s promise includes also me.

Testimony Time ! 😃

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Sovereign Lord & Creator and my only and all-sufficient Creator, Redeemer, Judge, and God.

I believe in salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, for God’s glory alone.

As to the detail of salvation:

I accept TULIP almost entirely, since almost all of it - possibly all of it - can be interpreted in a sense which is in full agreement with the teaching of the Roman Church.

That said, I believe in the validity of the distinction between:
  • the mighty act of salvation upon the Cross, which is unique, unrepeatable, and infinite in value, grace, and power; to which there can be added nothing at all
  • the continuing mediation of this saving act of by the Holy Spirit to the elect (this is a less restrictive term than “believer”) so that it brings forth its proper fruits in them, both before and after incorporation into Christ
  • the completed salvation which is the fulfilment of the previous two stages.
I think these three are one single act, which seem to be three only because we are composite beings, whereas God is simple Being

Salvation is nothing to do with “being good enough”: God elects sinners, not because they are good - they are not, for they are dead in sins and trespasses - but because** He** is. Good people do not need salvation; those who are utterly unworthy of it, and incapable of desiring it efficaciously, however much they may wistfully desire it, do need it. This is a great paradox, which the OT poses but does not resolve.

Only the Perfect Penitent can atone for human sinfulness, and a perfect penitent is the one man who needs neither penitence nor conversion; as C. S. Lewis pointed out. Salvation is all from God, is totally free (because its price is infinite), releases us from all law, and lays upon us the obligation to love God perfectly with all that we are, have, were, and shall be. So antinomianism has no place, just as Paul pointed out. It is expelled not by law, but by Love - God’s, effectually working in us.

To answer your question - I don’t know, and I don’t need to 😃 What I do know is that Jesus Christ knows. I believe that the more fully we know Him - and we cannot know unless we love (and that is itself His grace) - the more fully we shall be in salvation: to abide in Christ and He in us, is to be in salvation. Those who love don’t think about loving - love unifies activity and thinking, and one gets on with living in the one who is loved, so far as this can be. So with salvation - the more we are in the Love of Christ, the less we shall be bothered about being saved; we shall be too busy with doing and being something much more important for that.

Heaven is not about the Christian, but about Jesus Christ. Why worry about Heaven if one has Him on earth ? Heaven would be Hell without Him, and Hell with Him would be the Heaven of Heavens. Salvation is not Heaven or being there - salvation is Christ. He is all we need, and all we have been given: all that we receive is in Christ alone. So justification and salvation without Christ are empty words.

What matters, is that He is with us now, each time that is called “now” - this fact is what the “sacrament of the present moment” is about, in part. So in a way, thinking about Heaven to come can be a distraction. His saving and creating Love is new every moment, so what one might be, does not matter. ##
 
I like these answers, they’re very interesting. I have to say that I agree essentially with most of them. We shouldn’t say that we are going to heaven with sinful pride and a reliance on God’s grace as to make it something that is not grace. (I mean to say that we shouldn’t act like God’s grace can’t be taken away.) But at the same time, we should rely completely on that grace and place our faith soundly on God’s promises. Is that right?
 
We MUST rely completely on that grace, because that is the only hope we have of getting there, but we must also bear in mind that we can choose freely of our own will to reject that grace at any point in our lives. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling " seems to me pretty clear that salvation isnt a transaction but rather a process, which we are free to reject or stop participating in at any time. Yes the gospel tells us that “all who believe in [Jesus] will not perish” but Jesus also tells us that if we believe in him we will keep his commandments. Belief is not merely an intellectual ascertation or oral declaration, but more so it is manifested in whether or not we choose to live our lives in imitation of Christ. Christ alone saves us, that is fact, but we are not saved through our faith in him alone. The scripture says that we are saved by faith, but nowhere does it say we are saved by “faith alone”. The only time the phrase “faith alone” appears in the Bible is in the book of James. We cannot save ourselves, but we are perfectly capable of bringing about our own damnation.
 
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LutheranStudent:
I like these answers, they’re very interesting. I have to say that I agree essentially with most of them. We shouldn’t say that we are going to heaven with sinful pride and a reliance on God’s grace as to make it something that is not grace. (I mean to say that we shouldn’t act like God’s grace can’t be taken away.) But at the same time, we should rely completely on that grace and place our faith soundly on God’s promises. Is that right?

In a subtle way, even this may be attributing too much to us. 🙂 I don’t think the question can be solved by intellectual approaches only - I think it is answered by living with Christ. All the treasures of richness and wisdom are there - not in us.​

We can do nothing at all unless God makes our nothingness fruitful in activity - God has to empower us, for us to be or to do at all. So everything we do, is really far more His doing than ours. That doesn’t imply that God is a giant version of man; the difficulty in understanding what is meant when human words are used to speak of God is the reason Catholic theology is so keen on analogy. ##
 
I think St. Paul’s statement sums it up for Catholics:

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

This flies against OSAS. To a Catholic, SAVED means Yes, Christ REDEEMED all men, but each man needs to respond for SALVATION.

in XT.
 
LutheranStudent, does it not bother you that you follow someone whom wanted to remove several books from the Bible because those books contradicted his personal belief?
 
I know I am not being charitable, but sometimes you have no choice but to treat the person like a publican…
 
Now I’m not a theologian, but it seems to me that salvation is like a gift God is offering to us. No matter how many times he offers or how badly he wants us to accept it is still up to us whether we accept it, keep it, throw it away or reject it.

There’s nothing automatic in it, after all Jesus said ‘not everyone who says to me ‘Lord Lord’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven’ (Matt 7:21)
 
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LutheranStudent:
Will you be in heaven?
In Lutheran circles, it is safe to say, we are taught to know with confidence that we will be in heaven when we die. Keeping our own sinfulness in mind and not out of sinful pride we confess it because to say we “might” be in heaven would be akin to saying that Jesus “might have” paid for all our sins completely. How would you answer this question?

A) Yes, because Christ Jesus has assured us that whoever lives and believes in him shall never die.
B) Maybe. Nobody can tell for sure that God will send them to heaven because in the end it’s God’s judgement call.
C) No. I don’t believe that I am good enough to get to heaven or that God’s promise includes also me.
Despite rejecting the Roman Catholic church and all that it teaches, I know without a doubt that I am saved. Not because of anything that I have done or any ritual that I have followed, but solely because of Christ’s atoning death on my behalf.
 
Well, that is up to Jesus, not me. It is Him who decides who goes and who doesn’t. I live my life to the best of my ability as a Catholic, and I hope it pleases Him. The final jusgement is up to Him, not us.
He knows who will make it and who wont, not us.
 
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Marilena:
Well, that is up to Jesus, not me. It is Him who decides who goes and who doesn’t. I live my life to the best of my ability as a Catholic, and I hope it pleases Him. The final jusgement is up to Him, not us.
He knows who will make it and who wont, not us.
Being a good Catholic will not save you.

Would you like to know with certainty that you are saved?
 
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