Wisconsin Appeals Court Upholds Sanctions Against Fired Pro-Life Pharmacist

[Nohome]

Religious freedom is not just the freedom to exercise your personal belief system but the freedom to not come under duress from anybody elses.

A good point. Everyone goes on about pharmacist rights, but what about employer rights? If pharmacists are going to pull stunts like this, an employer should be able to ask at an interview (before hiring) “will your religous beliefs prevent you from fulfilling any of your duties while on the job?”

The employer could then choose not to hire the pharmacist, spell out accomadations in advance of any problem, or fire the pharmacist for not doing their duty.

Of course, if the pharmacist owns thier pharmacy, then they can do whatever they please. If they are willing to accept a paycheck, they should be willing to do the job.

Nohome

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

The words federal law are yours, not mine, but from the source article:

If you feel that is your Christian duty then so be it, but don’t turn around and whine when gasp the United States law is upheld.

Ok, so “federal law” were not your words…“United States law” were. Little difference there. You also said that the “civilized world” has accepted birth control. Yes, contraceptives are so “civilized” that they’ve only killed people. Very civilized that is.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[TomPiltoff]

You also said that the “civilized world” has accepted birth control.

Yes, it has. Birth control is accepted in societies at the forefront of civilization, namely countries in the west.

Yes, contraceptives are so “civilized” that they’ve only killed people

Condoms and pills that prevent pregnancy are not murder weapons. That attitude is what helps AIDS ravage Africa.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Yes, it has. Birth control is accepted in societies at the forefront of civilization, namely countries in the west.

Condoms and pills that prevent pregnancy are not murder weapons. That attitude is what helps AIDS ravage Africa.

Yes, AIDS still ravages Africa and yet condoms are being shipped over by the barrel. I guess they aren’t working that great are they? Guess what one African country has had success with fighting AIDS? The one that teaches abstinence.

Contraceptives (drugs, not condoms) HAVE killed people by causing blood clots. They also can act as abortifacs. All of those “societies at the forefront of civilization” accept abortion as well. Assisted suicide too. Heck, that civilized western nation of the Netherlands has accepted euthanasia and infanticide. I guess we’re just behind the times here in the medieval Church.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[TomPiltoff]

Contraceptives (drugs, not condoms) HAVE killed people by causing blood clots.

A futile grasp for a straw that isn’t there. The science of oral birth control has not been perfected yet, don’t pretend that when you speak of contraceptives being murder you’re referencing the minority of adults who used them with fatal results.

They also can act as abortifacs. All of those “societies at the forefront of civilization” accept abortion as well. Assisted suicide too. Heck, that civilized western nation of the Netherlands has accepted euthanasia and infanticide. I guess we’re just behind the times here in the medieval Church.

You’re under the false assumption that my comment about the civilized world was meant to change your mind. It wasn’t.

It’s a point in and of itself. Keep referring to condoms as tools of Satan all you like but the vast majority of the civilized world has decided it’s a good idea and moved on.

 

[hasikelee]

Well it goes something like this:

The pill this woman had a doctor prescribed prescription for is obviously legal in the US. The pharmacy she went to obviously had the pill in stock.

The employee crossed the line and refused to supply the woman with her doctor prescribed prescription because he feels it is unnecessary/immoral.

To digitonomy, I do not believe the basic flow of goods in America is necessarily changed by supply of said goods, so, no, that was not my argument. I was trying to show Tom that this was a deliberate act of escalation by the woman. It’s not as if the woman was in a state of desparation and the pharmacist was revoking her only resource for pills to save her life. We’re talking about a very routine prescription that can be filled almost anywhere. Doctors keep little baskets of the stuff to hand out for free.

I guess if in my line of work we are allowed to refuse to assist any client or to sell any client merchandise of any kind for any reason…reasons that we don’t even have to divulge, why is a basic pharmacist unable to refuse filling this prescription?

But, then I found out I was lagging behind on the discussion, because it has already been duly noted that the law upheld the pharmacist’s right to refuse to fill the prescription. His error was in not advising the woman further.

I feel that’s a pretty moot point itself. Like she was clueless on how to get to the next Wallybob’s or SavewhileuShop or Planned Barrenhood to get these things?

Again, the two in this case were meant for each other.

Does anyone know if the prescription to be filled was even for contraceptive reasons? I know a lot of doctors push these pills for a myriad of symptoms.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

A futile grasp for a straw that isn’t there. The science of oral birth control has not been perfected yet, don’t pretend that when you speak of contraceptives being murder you’re referencing the minority of adults who used them with fatal results.

You’re under the false assumption that my comment about the civilized world was meant to change your mind. It wasn’t.

It’s a point in and of itself. Keep referring to condoms as tools of Satan all you like but the vast majority of the civilized world has decided it’s a good idea and moved on.

I never said that contraceptives were murder. I said that they have killed people. That is a fact. Why market a product that has not been “scientifically perfected yet” when it can cause death? People are so in love with artificial contraceptives now that they will defend them to the death (literally, for those unlucky ones that actually do die from their use). How was I grasping for straws? I said that contraceptives have killed people and they have. A straw that isn’t there?

I also never called condoms “tools of Satan”. I simply said that they have not been working to stop AIDS in Africa…again, that is a fact.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Nohome]

His error was in not advising the woman further.

No, his error was that he held her prescription hostage. He refused to give it back or transfer it to another pharmacy. She had to go back to her Dr. and get another script AND she missed a day of taking the pill because of the actions of this zelot.

The law is quite clear on this. A pharmacist may step aside, but they may not step in the way. The court was just in their ruling.

Nohome

 

[hasikelee]

No, his error was that he held her prescription hostage. He refused to give it back or transfer it to another pharmacy. She had to go back to her Dr. and get another script AND she missed a day of taking the pill because of the actions of this zelot.

The law is quite clear on this. A pharmacist may step aside, but they may not step in the way. The court was just in their ruling.

Nohome

Can’t he be charged with stealing her prescription?

 

[Nohome]

Can’t he be charged with stealing her prescription?

Not really, as it has no intrinsic value. He can; however, and was charged with dereliction of duty when the woman submitted a claim to the board of pharmacy.

Nohome

 

[Digitonomy]

Why market a product that has not been “scientifically perfected yet” when it can cause death?

I think you have some misconceptions about pharmaceuticals. Very few categories of medication could be described as “scientifically perfected,” while almost all can cause death.

 

[Nohome]

I think you have some misconceptions about pharmaceuticals. Very few categories of medication could be described as “scientifically perfected,” while almost all can cause death.

You mean like deaths caused by:

Aspirin

juiceguy.com/ASPIRIN-side-effects-include-DEATH.shtml

or Tylenol

onlinelawyersource.com/acetaminophen/side-effects.html

or Motrin

rxlist.com/cgi/generic/ibup_pi.htm

The list of imperfect drugs goes on forever.

Nohome

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

To borrow from another poster, is it any less convenient to go to another supermarket because your local deli recently hired a Muslim who won’t touch pork?

Whether the other pharmacy was directly next door or an hour away makes no difference.

No, it really isn’t a major inconvenience. I don’t see why you keep coming back to that idea. Your definition of unacceptable inconvenience is obviously quite different from mine and, apparently, the courts themselves.

Perhaps you missed my admission of holidays off, certain kinds of clothing, etc. I am tolerant of what I believe to be a fair degree of religion in the workplace.

No, I didn’t miss it. I suggest you stop making comments like that, because everyone participating in this thread is capable of reading, comprehension, and getting your points.

Religious freedom is not just the freedom to exercise your personal belief system but the freedom to not come under duress from anybody elses.

Obviously but thanks for clarifying your position. This young woman or any other would not come under “duress” of any significant kind by a pharmacist simply stepping aside. I am concerned with the “duress” religious freedom would come under if your definition of unacceptable inconveniences were permitted by the courts.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

The law is quite clear on this. A pharmacist may step aside, but they may not step in the way. The court was just in their ruling.

I agree.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Good to see so many people on here are putting their liberal, secular agenda ahead of their Christian faith. I’m sure God is very happy about that.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

You mean like deaths caused by:

Aspirin

juiceguy.com/ASPIRIN-side-effects-include-DEATH.shtml

or Tylenol

onlinelawyersource.com/acetaminophen/side-effects.html

or Motrin

rxlist.com/cgi/generic/ibup_pi.htm

The list of imperfect drugs goes on forever.

Nohome

So what? So because other drugs can cause death, we should just ignore the fact that contraceptives can? Or still encourage people to take them anyway? This is absolutely irrelevant to the issue of contraceptives causing death. I cannot believe the extents to which people will go to defend contraception…it is amazing.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[TomPiltoff]

So what? So because other drugs can cause death, we should just ignore the fact that contraceptives can? Or still encourage people to take them anyway? This is absolutely irrelevant to the issue of contraceptives causing death.

No, it’s very relevant because the deaths caused by contraception are about as rare as deaths caused by aspirin. Death is not a common side effect of contraceptives and you know that.

Furthermore, we allow people to partake in activities to which we know are very unsafe, such as smoking. So even if contraceptives were incredibly dangerous (which they aren’t), it would say nothing of peoples rights to use them.

To borrow from another poster, is it any less convenient to go to another supermarket because your local deli recently hired a Muslim who won’t touch pork?

This is when you and I part ways, then. I am completely unwilling to allow my grocers religious beliefs to affect my life and I’d be completely unwilling to allow my pharmacists, either.

 

[Nohome]

I cannot believe the extents to which people will go to defend contraception…it is amazing.

Good to see so many people on here are putting their liberal, secular agenda ahead of their Christian faith. I’m sure God is very happy about that.

Sounds like someone has a problem with opinions that differ from their own. I’ve got news for you, we live in a nation with a secular government. In addition, “liberal” and “christian” are not mutally exclusive.

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

So what?

This response is equivalent to saying “oh ya”, it is used when one wants to say something but there really is nothing left to say.

So because other drugs can cause death, we should just ignore the fact that contraceptives can?

Who said we should ignore this? It would certainly become part of an informed decision to use them.

Or still encourage people to take them anyway?

I don’t recall anyone saying we should encourage the use of contraceptives. Isn’t this a thread about a pharmacist that overstepped the bounds of his profession?

This is absolutely irrelevant to the issue of contraceptives causing death.

Actually, it is a slam dunk and you can’t handle being wrong.

I cannot believe the extents to which people will go to defend contraception…it is amazing.

Actually, I’m defending the Constitution and United States Law, you are the one that made this a discussion about contraception.

Nohome

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Why would you work at a pharmacy that dispenses birth control if you don’t believe in dispensing birth control?

Isn’t that like a catholic working as a prostitute but refusing to commit fornication? Why would a catholic work as a prostitute in the first place?