Wisconsin Recount Gets the Green Light

[Hoosier_Daddy]

And you need to suck in northern Idaho as well.

But this has been discussed for decades. My father and uncle brought it up when I was a kid. But the strangehold that the Seattle and Portland areas have on the states will never allow that to happen.

Oh no no no, I’ll keep panhandle on the Palouse, thank you very much. Except the school, you guys can have the school…

 

[Suudy]

Oh no no no, I’ll keep panhandle on the Palouse, thank you very much. Except the school, you guys can have the school…

I’m not sure what you mean. The Palouse overlaps both SE WA and part of northern ID. So northern ID gets all of the WA Palouse as well?

And if you mean by “school” my alma mater, well, what’s the alternative? A school that literally protests against a Medal of Honor winner as a “rich white” man (except he wasn’t):

When the resolution to honor Boyington died by a single vote, some reports highlighted comments by two student senators, one who said she didn’t believe a Marine was the sort of person the UW should want to produce, and another who said the school had enough monuments to “rich white men.”

 

[Brendan]

You do realize right that gerrymandering affects House seats. Someone posted not too long ago, I’m unsure if on this thread or another, that if districts were drawn by computer, he or she wonders if the House would have as many R seats. Who knows?

Here in MI, the population of Detroit has halved in the last 2 decades, but Federal voting rights laws still mandate that the number of ‘minority’ districts remain the same. So Detroits two congressional districts are among the worst for ‘gerrymandering’, so that their minority districts are preserved.

So I am not convinced that computer driven districts, ones that can ignore Federal voting rights legislation, would result in much of a change.

 

[ProdigalSun]

I don’t recall saying the “winner” was not determined by the EC. But you don’t think the majority of Americans who voted against Donald Trump were still able to follow the campaign without him visiting their states? The media covered him and his rallies quite well. He was given a lot of attention. One did not actually have to reside where he was in order to follow him and the campaign.

It amuses me to see you try to justify your position. The problem with looking at the PV vs. EV is the fact that the EV means nothing. It means nothing because that is not how people vote nor how the political system garners votes. By this I mean if you go for a PV mechanism thaen you must understand that the winner gets most votes. In a system that could have several candidates that means HIlar’s vote could have been split several ways and so to could Trumps If Hilary’s votes were split 4 ways and trumps 3 ways. Trump would have won anyway. Now we can not now wh o would of won if the PV mechanism was in place because it is possible that there would have been several more candidates.
You have this EV mechanism so that is the only one that matters!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m not sure what you mean. The Palouse overlaps both SE WA and part of northern ID. So northern ID gets all of the WA Palouse as well?

And if you mean by “school” my alma mater, well, what’s the alternative? A school that literally protests against a Medal of Honor winner as a “rich white” man (except he wasn’t):

When the resolution to honor Boyington died by a single vote, some reports highlighted comments by two student senators, one who said she didn’t believe a Marine was the sort of person the UW should want to produce, and another who said the school had enough monuments to “rich white men.”

Nah, I mean let’s leave my state, Idaho, In tact. But you can take U of I if you want… It can be a community college for you.

As for wazoo. I was a fan of that school until recently.

 

[Suudy]

Nah, I mean let’s leave my state, Idaho, In tact.’

I need to update my location. I’m in ID now as well.

But northern Idaho and eastern WA can come together. Why not have eastern WA, eastern OR, and northern ID band together?

But you can take U of I if you want…
It can be a community college for you.

No, no, no. The colors make me ill, the fans annoy me, and the school irritates me. I can do without.

As for wazoo. I was a fan of that school until recently.

Because of their football flops? Or because of the Barber fiasco?

 

[RosyAnne]

The motivation for voting or not voting in an electoral college type of election is different than the motivation for voting or not voting in a popular vote election. You simply cannot agree to the rules of one, then judge the outcome using the other. It’s nonsensical.

As Catholics we are called to be REASONED in our thinking, not EMOTIONAL. It protects us from deceit and manipulation.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I need to update my location. I’m in ID now as well.

But northern Idaho and eastern WA can come together. Why not have eastern WA, eastern OR, and northern ID band together?

No, no, no. The colors make me ill, the fans annoy me, and the school irritates me. I can do without.

Because of their football flops? Or because of the Barber fiasco?

It would have been nice if BSU had not dropped 2 games and wazoo had won the apple cup. We might even be looking at a playoff bid.

I’ve had bad experiences with their fans. This year and then my BIL’s best friend is one of the most annoying alum I’ve ever met. My cousin is a grad and he is a decent dude. But perhaps that is in spite of instead if because of WSU. They have a rep that they seem to not want to fix. I couldn’t send my kids there. But then again, such is the case with many schools these days. Anybody that can beat UW and knock the elitist wine and cheese out of them is ok in my book!
Sat by a lot if WSU fans this year and with the exception of UI they were the worst I’ve ever seen at a game. I was fearful for my wife. No way I could have been there with my kids!

 

[Suudy]

It would have been nice if BSU had not dropped 2 games and wazoo had won the apple cup. We might even be looking at a playoff bid.

Ah! Now the picture clears.

I’ve had bad experiences with their fans.

I’ve had bad experiences with fans of all schools. But none as consistently bad as UW and Oregon. My experience with BSU is hit and miss, about 50/50. Everyone else is great. I’ve been to WSU games (as a WSU fan) to every stadium in the Pac-10 (not Pac-12 now–still need to hit the expansion teams), and everyone except UW and Oregon were great. And I’ve been to several away games (Auburn was by far the best fan base I’ve ever interacted with). And BSU is pretty rough, especially since their success of late.

They have a rep that they seem to not want to fix. I couldn’t send my kids there. But then again, such is the case with many schools these days.

Which rep is that? Party school? If so, they knocked it in the late 90’s under Sam Smith. When I was there it really was a party school. Now just tripping on the curb at 1am can get you accused of public drunkenness. My SIL got pulled over in college (she graduated in 2003) for “hindered mirrors” because they were frosted, and the first question out of the cop’s mouth was “How much have you had to drink tonight?” It’s a much different world than it was 20-30 years ago, there.

Anybody that can beat UW and knock the elitist wine and cheese out of them is ok in my book!

My uncle and grandfather are UW alum, and they hated it years later. Sometime in the 60’s it really went bad for them, and they hated it even more. My grandfather was a semi-prestigious alum of their forestry school, and when he died we tried to donate his papers to the library and they refused. When my uncle requested more information, the dean wrote him a letter saying “The department is not interested in further examples of the exploitation of natural resources, the environment, and the workers during his [my grandfather’s] tenure as a director of timberland.” Not kidding. I’ve seen the letter.

Sat by a lot if WSU fans this year and with the exception of UI they were the worst I’ve ever seen at a game. I was fearful for my wife. No way I could have been there with my kids!

In Boise? No doubt. It’s like any bandwagon fan in any largish city. I’ve been to Gonzaga games in Spokane and been harassed by their fans. I’ve been to dinner in Tempe, and had ASU fans harass me and my buddies for wearing WSU gear. I’ve been to a bar in Denver and had a CU fan harass me and my buddy for wearing WSU gear.

Go to Pullman next year. It’s not such a problem there. There will be jerks (there always are), but it’s not like going to Seattle or Eugene.

 

[commenter]

The motivation for voting or not voting in an electoral college type of election is different than the motivation for voting or not voting in a popular vote election. You simply cannot agree to the rules of one, then judge the outcome using the other. It’s nonsensical.

As Catholics we are called to be REASONED in our thinking, not EMOTIONAL. It protects us from deceit and manipulation.

The NY Times has been denouncing the newer “Fake News” sites, organizations that pretend to be something they are not, in order to influence people’s emotions, and thus, their actions regarding the election, electoral college, etc. The Times, and other ethical, mainstream outlets, of course bitterly lament this rejection of truth, this dishonesty, this breach of trust that gradually erodes all trust in traditional media.

In other news, the NY Times and other ethical media has been treating the pending decision of a Faithless Elector as the voice of a hero taking a prophetic stand, he will apparently not feel bound by some traditional thing like a pledge but vote his conscience, not the Republican he promised to support.

 

[RosyAnne]

The NY Times has been denouncing the newer “Fake News” sites, organizations that pretend to be something they are not, in order to influence people’s emotions, and thus, their actions regarding the election, electoral college, etc. The Times, and other ethical, mainstream outlets, of course bitterly lament this rejection of truth, this dishonesty, this breach of trust that gradually erodes all trust in traditional media.

In other news, the NY Times and other ethical media has been treating the pending decision of a Faithless Elector as the voice of a hero taking a prophetic stand, he will apparently not feel bound by some traditional thing like a pledge but vote his conscience, not the Republican he promised to support.

I know, it sure is interesting times we live in! But we are all being taught something here. Both with what’s happening in the world and in the Church. We are being taught how to THINK. How to REASON. How to protect ourselves by being ensnared by manipulations. How to temper our emotions and stick with logic.

There’s a reason for this, I think God is preparing us for something coming down the pipeline.

 

[ProVobis]

Here in MI, the population of Detroit has halved in the last 2 decades, but Federal voting rights laws still mandate that the number of ‘minority’ districts remain the same. So Detroits two congressional districts are among the worst for ‘gerrymandering’, so that their minority districts are preserved.

So I am not convinced that computer driven districts, ones that can ignore Federal voting rights legislation, would result in much of a change.

I would be curious as to what algorithm this computer model would use. I believe I read somewhere that the ways it’s currently set up the Democrats would have to win like 55% of the total House vote to have equal representation in that chamber.

And for what it’s worth, I read where Nate Silver* actually calculated that Hillary would have had to have won the popular vote by 4% to assure an EV win. (She’s only currently leading by 1.9%, hardly enough.) Still it’s MATHEMATICALLY possible to win the popular vote by 30,000,000 and still lose the election.

• fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-a-difference-2-percentage-points-makes/

 

[Sy_Noe]

The motivation for voting or not voting in an electoral college type of election is different than the motivation for voting or not voting in a popular vote election. You simply cannot agree to the rules of one, then judge the outcome using the other. It’s nonsensical.

As Catholics we are called to be REASONED in our thinking, not EMOTIONAL. It protects us from deceit and manipulation.

You seem to be missing the point if you think anyone is judging the outcome using the popular vote. I’ve seen no one, including myself, who is saying Donald J Trump did not win the EC based on the results of Nov 8 and therefore the Presidency. Despite perhaps a relatively few EC electors not voting with their states, Donald J Trump will be the next POTUS. You can take my word to the bank on that.

Just as equally true however is that a sizable 54% voted against him and Hillary Clinton won more votes of the American people than did President-elect Trump. And such numbers of Americans voting against the next POTUS simply does not translate into the mandate for him that some claim it does. It simply can’t be said when 54% of the American people who bothered to cast ballots, voted against Mr Trump, and the American people voted in greater numbers for Hillary Clinton than did for him, that somehow such numbers give the winner the mandate that some claim. To borrow your words, it’s nonsensical. But we could go round and round and never agree. So peace to you in this season of Advent and brightest blessings to you for a wonderful Christmas season.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You seem to be missing the point if you think anyone is judging the outcome using the popular vote. I’ve seen no one, including myself, who is saying Donald J Trump did not win the EC based on the results of Nov 8 and therefore the Presidency. Despite perhaps a relatively few EC electors not voting with their states, Donald J Trump will be the next POTUS. You can take my word to the bank on that.

Just as equally true however is that a sizable 54% voted against him and Hillary Clinton won more votes of the American people than did President-elect Trump. And such numbers of Americans voting against the next POTUS simply does not translate into the mandate for him that some claim it does. It simply can’t be said when 54% of the American people who bothered to cast ballots, voted against Mr Trump, and the American people voted in greater numbers for Hillary Clinton than did for him, that somehow such numbers give the winner the mandate that some claim. To borrow your words, it’s nonsensical.

Yes it is a mandate. He won a large enough percentage of the vote to garner an electoral college win. This despite a media that billed him as a joke. His party retained both houses of which they were projected to lose one. The populist movement gripping Europe right now shows also a global mandate away fro. The globalism that Obama and the democrats embodied. The last two candidates for the republicans were more steady grounded candidates. They were beaten in landslides. To go from a landslide to losing a close election in four years is a mandate for change. Especially when the candidate that won was a lightning rod.

But please, I hope your side keeps turning a blind eye to this. Keep on pointing to the popular vote, to the policies and to the media. That will keep any strategic reform from happening. Move farther to the left, double down on global warming, immigration, and abortion. Oh pretty please!

The one thing is that if trump is a disaster. ( he won’t be) we will survive 4 years of an ego. We just survived 8. But at least the Supreme Court will affect the next generation of politics in a conservative, American way.

Just out if curriosity, if you were czar, what changes would you make to the democratic platform to position wins in the senate and presidency?

 

[Sy_Noe]

Yes it is a mandate. He won a large enough percentage of the vote to garner an electoral college win. This despite a media that billed him as a joke. His party retained both houses of which they were projected to lose one. The populist movement gripping Europe right now shows also a global mandate away fro. The globalism that Obama and the democrats embodied. The last two candidates for the republicans were more steady grounded candidates. They were beaten in landslides. To go from a landslide to losing a close election in four years is a mandate for change. Especially when the candidate that won was a lightning rod.

But please, I hope your side keeps turning a blind eye to this. Keep on pointing to the popular vote, to the policies and to the media. That will keep any strategic reform from happening. Move farther to the left, double down on global warming, immigration, and abortion. Oh pretty please!

The one thing is that if trump is a disaster. ( he won’t be) we will survive 4 years of an ego. We just survived 8. But at least the Supreme Court will affect the next generation of politics in a conservative, American way.

Just out if curriosity, if you were czar, what changes would you make to the democratic platform to position wins in the senate and presidency?

Don’t get too carried away. The Democrats won the Presidency in 2 of the past 3 elections on their platform. And history shows that over about the past 7 decades, very rarely has the same party won the Presidency 3 cycles straight.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Don’t get too carried away. The Democrats won the Presidency in 2 of the past 3 elections on their platform. And history shows that over about the past 7 decades, very rarely has the same party won the Presidency 3 cycles straight.

Your posts have made me smile of late. Of course I would have had you on ignore if the election went the other way!

 

[ProVobis]

Don’t get too carried away. The Democrats won the Presidency in 2 of the past 3 elections on their platform. And history shows that over about the past 7 decades, very rarely has the same party won the Presidency 3 cycles straight.

Once they wear themselves down running their victory laps, they may find enough bluedog Democrats to replace them next two elections.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Your posts have made me smile of late. Of course I would have had you on ignore if the election went the other way!

But if the election had gone the other way, you then wouldn’t have been able to see if I had responded to your posts.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

For those interested in the recount totals:

The totals show for day 6:
Trump has lost 429 votes
Trump has gained 568 votes
Clinton has lost 405 votes
Clinton has gained 546 votes

Trump has gained a net of 139 votes
Clinton has gained a net of 141 votes

Clinton has gained a net of 2 votes after 6 days. (Specific tallies are at the end of this article).

heavy.com/news/2016/12/wisconsin-recount-results-day-6-5-7-progress-update-latest-new-rules-laws-totals-numbers-vote-status/

If nothing else, this process is proving out that the election isn’t rigged - at least in Wisconsin.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Yes it is a mandate. He won a large enough percentage of the vote to garner an electoral college win. This despite a media that billed him as a joke. His party retained both houses of which they were projected to lose one. The populist movement gripping Europe right now shows also a global mandate away fro. The globalism that Obama and the democrats embodied. The last two candidates for the republicans were more steady grounded candidates. They were beaten in landslides. To go from a landslide to losing a close election in four years is a mandate for change. Especially when the candidate that won was a lightning rod.

But please, I hope your side keeps turning a blind eye to this. Keep on pointing to the popular vote, to the policies and to the media. That will keep any strategic reform from happening. Move farther to the left, double down on global warming, immigration, and abortion. Oh pretty please!

The one thing is that if trump is a disaster. ( he won’t be) we will survive 4 years of an ego. We just survived 8. But at least the Supreme Court will affect the next generation of politics in a conservative, American way.

Just out if curriosity, if you were czar, what changes would you make to the democratic platform to position wins in the senate and presidency?

Well said!