Wisdom or Love - What Is Greater?

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DoxieMama said:
I think it’s love. The reason I say that is because I learned in RCIA last year that God is love.
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Doxie:

True. Since God is perfectly loving, I suppose he is love. But God is also perfectly knowing, for he knows all. So isn’t God also wisdom?
 
Love the pic and the quote but Spock would give credit to the original speaker: “Sherlock Holmes” (Arthur Conan Doyle).
 
hasantas said:
As an attribute of God both are equal because all attributes of God are eternal.

For human it maybe different because human’s senses are different according to each others.
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Hasantas: Wisely said! How can one attribute of God be greater or more desirable than another? Shouldn’t we not only desire to love as God loves but also desire to know what God knows?

1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

(Ephesians 5)

I’m thinking that to imitate Christ we have to be motivated by his love but also guided by his wisdom. Yet I hesitate to say you and I are wise to hold this opinion. For Solomon says nothing compares to wisdom and Jesus says love is the greatest commandment. How can they both be right? Is there any way to reconcile the two opinions?
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Love the pic and the quote but Spock would give credit to the original speaker: “Sherlock Holmes” (Arthur Conan Doyle).
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Ergo: Actually, in both Star Trek universes, Spock credits a Vulcan ancestor for the wise saying. Since our ancestors were still living in caves when Vulcans were exploring outer space, I’d say they should get the credit.

😛
 
spockrates said:
Hasantas: Wisely said! How can one attribute of God be greater or more desirable than another? Shouldn’t we not only desire to love as God loves but also desire to know what God knows?

1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

(Ephesians 5)

I’m thinking that to imitate Christ we have to be motivated by his love but also guided by his wisdom. Yet I hesitate to say you and I are wise to hold this opinion. For Solomon says nothing compares to wisdom and Jesus says love is the greatest commandment. How can they both be right? Is there any way to reconcile the two opinions?
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Human morality can contain and hold all attributes. But some attributes are dominant for someones. Forexample some can work and actuate some senses more than others. Some is good at love but other is good at wisdoom or some other is good at affection and compassion etc.

For Jesus(pbuh) love was dominant. So the love is the most right for Jesus and the wisdom is the most right way for Solomon. In İslam for Sufis the love is the most high way to get faith. But for Kalam the wisdom is the most high way. So it can be different for different people. And who can work one of that(love, wisdom, affection) correctly he/she can reach and find God.
 
hasantas said:
Human morality can contain and hold all attributes. But some attributes are dominant for someones. Forexample some can work and actuate some senses more than others. Some is good at love but other is good at wisdoom or some other is good at affection and compassion etc.

For Jesus(pbuh) love was dominant. So the love is the most right for Jesus and the wisdom is the most right way for Solomon. In İslam for Sufis the love is the most high way to get faith. But for Kalam the wisdom is the most high way. So it can be different for different people. And who can work one of that(love, wisdom, affection) correctly he/she can reach and find God.
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My apologies for saying to imitate Jesus (praise be upon him) is to imitate the God. I hope I did not offend.

🙂

Yes, I can see how one may have more wisdom than a friend who has more compassion. Please tell me: What does the Koran say about love and wisdom? Are there any passages that compare the two or explicitly say they are of equal value?
 
spockrates said:
Fog or not–good thoughts! Thank you. Interesting that Mother Teresa says service is what love does but not what love is. For a fruit of a tree cannot be the same as the tree that produced it. So if service is the effect, what is its cause? That is, what is love? I suppose it might be pure emotion–more specifically compassion, which motivates us to some selfless action.

What do you think?
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I am trying to remember my favorite definition of love, so I’m getting Aquinas, John Paull II, and Jason Evert’s definition mixed up a bit in my head. I heard this definition from Jason Evert, but he attributed it to JPII:

***“Love is to will the good of another and/or to the desire the highest and best thing or end, in a consistent manner, for the sake of the beloved.”
(highly paraphrased)
 
JamalChristophr said:
I am trying to remember my favorite definition of love, so I’m getting Aquinas, John Paull II, and Jason Evert’s definition mixed up a bit in my head. I heard this definition from Jason Evert, but he attributed it to JPII:

***“Love is to will the good of another and/or to the desire the highest and best thing or end, in a consistent manner, for the sake of the beloved.”
(highly paraphrased)
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Good definition, that! So love is a desire or decision to act for the sake of another. I suppose we might say wisdom is to posses the true opinion as to what is the good and highest and best thing or end for the consistent sake of another.

I suppose, then that one who has love but lacks wisdom would have the desire to act, and even decide she must act, but would in no way know how to act. For Love must be beautiful in her willingness to please God, but blind in her ability to see how to do it. So it is hard for me to see how Love without wisdom could ever know how to please God.

But what of Wisdom? She isn’t blind, for she knows what God wants. But is she deficient in some other way? Is it possible for her to please God apart from Love?
 
spockrates said:
Daryl: Please explain.
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Wisdom is the vehicle, Love is the payload.

To explain I would need to go back further in the process. First God. For Him, Love is the vehicle, Wisdom is the payload. That wisdom imparted to us because of the love God has for us, even the whole world, the Word made flesh, is transformed into the wisdom that becomes the vehicle that manifests itself in love.

The Word was made flesh, Wisdom. Light has come into the world, Wisdom. I will write my laws in their hearts, Wisdom.

The intellect can merely assent to the great commandments of the law (or the creed for that matter), it is wisdom that is the vehicle that both fathoms and performs them.
 
JamalChristophr said:
Love is greater, yet she is the daughter of Wisdom.
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👍

…but I also think wisdom could be the daughter of love…It could start with love and then be led to wisdom…or it could with other people start with wisdom…and then lead to love.In anycase…whats important is to eventually possess both love and wisdom.🙂
 
sennincatholic said:
👍

…but I also think wisdom could be the daughter of love…It could start with love and then be led to wisdom…or it could with other people start with wisdom…and then lead to love.In anycase…whats important is to eventually possess both love and wisdom.🙂
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Or perhaps they are sisters?

🙂
 
Darryl_B said:
Wisdom is the vehicle, Love is the payload.

To explain I would need to go back further in the process. First God. For Him, Love is the vehicle, Wisdom is the payload. That wisdom imparted to us because of the love God has for us, even the whole world, the Word made flesh, is transformed into the wisdom that becomes the vehicle that manifests itself in love.

The Word was made flesh, Wisdom. Light has come into the world, Wisdom. I will write my laws in their hearts, Wisdom.

The intellect can merely assent to the great commandments of the law (or the creed for that matter), it is wisdom that is the vehicle that both fathoms and performs them.
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When I think of a vehicle and a payload, a cement truck comes to mind. One might say that such a vehicle (the truck) is the cause, and its payload (cement) is the effect. If this is what you have in mind, then I believe you are saying that for us, wisdom is the cause of our own love.

But you haven’t said enough for me to know if what you say is true. For you have said what wisdom is that which comprehends and acts according to its comprehension, but you have not said what love is. So please tell me: What is love? Then I will better comprehend what you say is true that I might act on this comprehension.

🙂
 
It is very possible for someone to love and love deeply who is not wise.
It happens all the time with those who are developmentally delayed.
Children also can love with great love and lack wisdom.

Love is greater.
 
Marie5890 said:
It is very possible for someone to love and love deeply who is not wise.
It happens all the time with those who are developmentally delayed.
Children also can love with great love and lack wisdom.

Love is greater.
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Marie: Agreed. I worked with severely developmentally disabled adults for several years, and I concur that they had compassion. But is a feeling all that love is, or is it also what we do? Jesus’ words come to mind:

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whosoever believes in him might not perish but will have eternal life.”

(John 3:16)

So I wonder: Is God’s love what he felt? Or is it also what he did? Or is what he did the effect of love but in no way love itself?
 
spockrates said:
Rinnie: Sorry for taking so long to respond. Busy weekend. Yes, Jesus did say the greatest commandment is to love. So do you think Solomon disagrees? He says nothing you and I desire compares with wisdom. But if love is the greatest commandment, then doesn’t that mean nothing we desire compares with love?
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didn’t Solomon mess up by allowing so many concubines to sway him from the worship of the one true God? How was he truly wise??? Because he said Wisdom is to be desired??? He messed up and the whole kingdom was divided on his account…
 
spockrates said:
I suppose, then that one who has love but lacks wisdom would have the desire to act, and even decide she must act, but would in no way know how to act. For Love must be beautiful in her willingness to please God, but blind in her ability to see how to do it. So it is hard for me to see how Love without wisdom could ever know how to please God.
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What does a six year old “know” about wisdom? But he wants to act to show his love for his mother and father. In his little way he will draw a picture, give a hug, say a few words that express his love. Yet, wisdom is still to be sought after for him. He loves NOW! Love is simple and easy. You don’t have to be wise to know it… to share it… to wish to act in a loving way for someone else…
 
spockrates said:
My apologies for saying to imitate Jesus (praise be upon him) is to imitate the God. I hope I did not offend.

🙂

Yes, I can see how one may have more wisdom than a friend who has more compassion. Please tell me: What does the Koran say about love and wisdom? Are there any passages that compare the two or explicitly say they are of equal value?
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There are many verses about love and wisdom. Quran does not hold one above other but there are more verses about wisdom. Here some:
  1. He granteth wisdom to whom He pleaseth; and he to whom wisdom is granted receiveth indeed a benefit overflowing; but none will grasp the Message but men of understanding. (Quran, sura Al-Baqarah)
  2. “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel,” (Quran, sura Al-İmran)
  3. Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah): They love them as they should love Allah. But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah… (Quran, sura Al-Baqarah)
  4. On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will the Most Gracious bestow love. (Quran, sura Maryam)
 
As yet, we have not properly defined wisdom. It can mean at least two different things, it seems for Catholics, and for the secular world…many more.
 
I can’t help but think of Sirach.

It seems that wisdom is given to those who love Him and keep His commandments.

Sirach, Chapter 1:

1 All wisdom comes from the Lord
and is with him for ever.

8 There is One who is wise, greatly to be feared,
sitting upon his throne.
9 The Lord himself created wisdom;
he saw her and apportioned her,
he poured her out upon all his works.
10 She dwells with all flesh according to his gift,
and he supplied her to those who love him.
11 The fear of the Lord is glory and exultation,
and gladness and a crown of rejoicing.
12 The fear of the Lord delights the heart,
and gives gladness and joy and long life.
13 With him who fears the Lord it will go well at the end;
on the day of his death he will be blessed.
14 To fear the Lord is the beginning of wisdom;
she is created with the faithful in the womb.
15 She made among men an eternal foundation,
and among their descendants she will be trusted.
16 To fear the Lord is wisdom’s full measure;
she satisfies men with her fruits;
17 she fills their whole house with desirable goods,
and their storehouses with her produce.
18 The fear of the Lord is the crown of wisdom,

26 If you desire wisdom, keep the commandments,
and the Lord will supply it for you.
27 For the fear of the Lord is wisdom and instruction,
and he delights in fidelity and meekness.
28 Do not disobey the fear of the Lord;
do not approach him with a divided mind.
29 Be not a hypocrite in men’s sight,
and keep watch over your lips.
30 Do not exalt yourself lest you fall,
and thus bring dishonor upon yourself.

Sounds really similar to a NT book…

John 14

15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
18 “I will not leave you desolate; I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more, but you will see me; because I live, you will live also. 20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21 He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me

Or 2…

1 John 1

1 My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

So much for a deuterocanonical 😃
 
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