Wise and sage advice please

[angel39]

Hi Shae,

Great advice so far. For starters, if you aren’t already, I highly recommend going to daily mass, adoration, confession as often as you can and pray for your son and his girlfriend and your negative opinions/feelings whether they may be true or not. Please only pray for God’s will, not your own. I also think it’s important to try and not be too judgemental towards his girl friend. You may be only seeing one side of her and not fully understanding the situation/her personality. Always give the other person the benefit of the doubt and treat others with kindness. Leading by example is key. Trust me, prayer, mass, adoration, confession will work wonders if you let it!

It sounds as though you’ve given your son your advice and opinions. Nothing more needs to be said. Repeating your opinion will only make matters worse. Your son is almost 24 now and needs to make his own decisions. I have a friend, let’s call him Bob. Bob’s mother would not stop giving her negative opinion about his girl friend. Eventually Bob got engaged and then married. It turns out Bob had to cut off his relationship with his mother because she didn’t respect boundaries/ his wife and would refuse to be in the presence of his wife. (Yes, it got THAT bad and started out in a situation similar to yours).

It’s never too late to try and fix a relationship. Keep an open mind, pray, go to mass, adoration, confession, and pray about what you should do whether it be inviting your son’s girlfriend over and having a quick heart to heart with her and apologizing, or inviting your son and his girlfriend out to eat every now and then to try to build a relationship and keep the peace. If you pray about how to handle the situation, often it’s the holy spirit working within you. It’s always good to have boundaries and keep distance. If relationships are semi mended i’m sure she’d feel more comfortable coming over every now and then. I wouldn’t do it more than once a week or even every other week is great.

I will pray for you and your situation. God Bless.
Amber

 

[Shae]

Hi Amber,
I can really feel the warmth in your posting and I appreciate your sage advice. I will consider and do all you have mentioned.

Welcome to this forum, by the way.

Shae

 

[Shae]

I asked for help and got lots of sound and respectful advice, albeit some who were more concerned to discuss me in front of me, like I was not even there, do you do this in front of your own children, talk about them, while they are in the room.

I should realise this catholic forum is not immune to the wildly ways of how people get all bravado behind a keyboard.

I am a person behind these words.

If you can’t say this to my face, you shouldnt do this behind a screen.

 

[Cat]

@ cat-
I got some good pointers out of what you said.

But you did lose me half way when you slap labels on me, you know barely anything of this situation.
Your advice is good, but your tact is little to be desired. Yes your one of these ‘I sugar coat nothing’ types of people.
But I will chose other ways of receiving support, especially when you seem so judgemental in presuming to know me.
Way bossy.

I am far from being the hen pecking type. Is this projection on your part perhaps.

If you will re-read my initial post to you, you will notice several places where I made it clear that I was speculating, based on your post. E.g., I said, “You might have to face…” and “If I am correct about this…” I didn’t slap labels on you. I presented some possibilities to you.

Of course I don’t know you, and I can’t judge you and I didn’t judge you. Since I am older, I have known a lot of people who talk like you (in your OP), and my comments to you are based on my knowledge of those people.

Please notice that several other people in th thread apparently agreed with me.

We’re not trying to “judge you” or slap a label on you. None of us are perfect parents, and the errors we make eventually show up in our children when they get older. (Believe me, I know all about that because of the way MY daughters turned out!) If we can begin to try to correct our errors, it is for our good and for the good of our children and their spouses and even our future grandchildren.

You asked for advice, I gave it. If you expect everyone to support you and say things that don’t challenge you, then perhaps it would be best for you to not ask for advice.

As for not saying things to your face–be reasonable. You came to an online forum to ask for advice. As much as we would all love to meet you in person and sit and chat over a coke or a cup of coffee, we CAN’T do that! Please don’t attack me or any of the rest of us for answering your query online, which is the only way we can answer your query.

I assure you that if I were to talk to you face to face in person, and have only the information you gave in your OP, I would say exactly the same thing. And I would not sound “harsh”, but gentle. As I said in my first post to you, this is not an easy task. Your situation is a tough one. Your son is trying to break away and start his own life, and he’s making some decisions that you do not agree with. That’s hard. I would never judge and label you, but try to help you, and THAT’S what I’m trying to do here, as is everyone else who has responded to you.

One question and think carefully about it. Do you do this to your son, too? Try to make him feel guilty when he tries to have a discussion with you? Accuse him of being “harsh” with you and “labelling” you? Please think very carefully and be honest with yourself about this. I hope that I am wrong.

 

[Xantippe]

This probably won’t help, but please consider that the girlfriend could be a lot worse than she is.

When one of my younger relatives was in high school, he had a veritable limpet of a girlfriend. She was from an alcoholic family, had nothing at all going for her, and she would call the house or any house she suspected him of being at throughout the day. (This was pre cell phones–I expect now, she’d be even more insufferable.) She’d also show up at his house at random times without announcement, even though his house was at least 30 minutes out of her way. The family was this close to needing a restraining order against her. I don’t know the inner dynamics of the relationship, but I once saw him crying his eyes out on the phone with her, and I suspect that she was guilting him into continuing the relationship, well beyond the point where he enjoyed being with her. Her life was so miserable, and he was the only thing she had going for her.

My young relative went off to college and met a new girl who eventually became his wife. She isn’t perfect, but she has many virtues (she is domestic, hard working, and a very conscientious mother). Best of all, when the old girlfriend drove (hours and hours and hours) to my young relative’s college to try to get back together with him, the new girlfriend was there to run her off, which she did a brilliant job of.

Likewise, when my future in-laws were criticizing me to my future husband and trying to stop us from getting married, the thing I didn’t understand was why they didn’t understand how much worse my future husband could have chosen. In a world full of young women who are non-church going, promiscuous, contraceptive-loving, politically incompatible, have kids already, and/or don’t have any visible means of support, why was I being treated as though I had rabies?

Try to see the good in this young woman and try to see her more often, but only as often as you can treat her warmly and kindly. And don’t say another word against her to your son. You may need to apologize and ask for a fresh start.

 

[Xantippe]

I forgot to mention–my relative’s old girlfriend (that we were all overjoyed to see gone) was from a trashy (not just alcoholic) family.

 

[maryjk]

I asked for help and got lots of sound and respectful advice, albeit some who were more concerned to discuss me in front of me, like I was not even there, do you do this in front of your own children, talk about them, while they are in the room.

I should realize this catholic forum is not immune to the wildly ways of how people get all bravado behind a keyboard.

I am a person behind these words.

If you can’t say this to my face, you shouldn’t do this behind a screen.

Well, I live in the US. You live in Australia. I CAN"T say anything to you face to face. Does that mean that I can’t comment?

You asked for advice and you got it.

If you wanted for people to agree with you and your actions, you should have said so. Or maybe you could have posted in the “Prayer Intentions” thread. That way few people comment. They simply pray for you.

But since you asked for advice, we took our life experience (mine with a meddling obnoxious MIL) and offered you what we could.

 

[ela2]

Among all the advices given, I agree with the above.

As a mother, it is your responsibility to let your child know your observation. The person one marries makes a life time difference. It is critical. If you see things that concerned you, you must let your son know. The key point is to have a good relationship with your son so your opinions will be received more receptively.

Many young people today do not know what they are looking for. It is important to help them first know their own values and standards and then objectively assess if those qualities are found in the person they are dating with. Therefore, instead of directly expressing your disapproval on that girl, you may start by chatting with your son for his own value, and help him from there. You may also share with him your own life experiences - what the good qualities you find important in a spouse.

Most importantly, pray. Pray everyday, and many times in a day, storm heaven with a mother’s prayer. I remember before my daughter got married and was dating, I always prayed God to break the relationship if it was not his will, and bless the relationship if it is. That always works.

I agree with this too

 

[JM3]

I forgot to mention–my relative’s old girlfriend (that we were all overjoyed to see gone) was from a trashy (not just alcoholic) family.

CCC

2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.277 He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
• of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;278
• of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. and if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.279

2479 Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.

 

[Xantippe]

JM3,

Does that mean the OP is guilty of detraction? Because if I’m guilty of detraction, so is she and so is anybody who complains about anybody on this forum.

Is it really detraction to say (anonymously, without naming the person), I’m so glad my relative did not marry his clingy, emotionally needy, stalkerish, socially inept, academically undistinguished, barely employable high school girlfriend? Because I am genuinely glad. I am so happy she is not my in-law!

 

[EasterJoy]

I asked for help and got lots of sound and respectful advice, albeit some who were more concerned to discuss me in front of me, like I was not even there, do you do this in front of your own children, talk about them, while they are in the room.

I should realise this catholic forum is not immune to the wildly ways of how people get all bravado behind a keyboard.

I am a person behind these words.

If you can’t say this to my face, you shouldnt do this behind a screen.

Generally speaking, the intention when someone posts a general theory to the forum instead of aiming their comments directly at you, the original poster, is to indicate that you’ve posted a question of general interest, that you are not alone or an oddity by having this issue to deal with, or that “this would be the case in general, although it might not apply to the original poster.” IOW, the intention is usually to give you a place to say, “Maybe that applies to someone in a roughly similar situation, but it does not fit my situation.”

Free advice is worth what you pay for it, but the good thing about it is that you don’t have to think twice about ignoring it if it doesn’t apply to you. If a post is out in left field, you can let it lie there, with no comment or reply. No one here knows you, your next-door neighbor might not recognize you by your question, and so you are free to take what is worthwhile and leave the rest without bothering to bend over to pick it up. It has that over unsolicited advice you might get in person, so what the heck.

It is good to give favorable feedback to a favorable reply, as it encourages more of the same, which is what you want. Personally, although I think it is worth it when the OP makes relatively small corrections to an otherwise helpful reply that had rough edges or missed mark for lack of information, I think it is best to give no feedback to a reply that ought never have been posted in the first place, since for some even a negative reply from the OP seems to encourage more of the same! Go figure!!

 

[JM3]

Because if I’m guilty of detraction, so is she

I’ve looked over Shae’s posts and don’t see where she calls the girl’s family “trashy”.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I forgot to mention–my relative’s old girlfriend (that we were all overjoyed to see gone) was from a trashy (not just alcoholic) family.

I understand that you would be happy that this person did not marry your loved one, I know I would be too. But please don’t judge someone or look down on them because of the family that they come from. That is so immaterial to who the person is, and everyone deserves to be judged on the basis of what they, and only they, do.

 

[Xantippe]

BEL said:

“I understand that you would be happy that this person did not marry your loved one, I know I would be too. But please don’t judge someone or look down on them because of the family that they come from. That is so immaterial to who the person is, and everyone deserves to be judged on the basis of what they, and only they, do.”

Quite right. There was, however, ample evidence to suggest that she was not some sort of shining exception in her family and that she might be even worse in some ways–as I said, it was very close to being time for a restraining order. She would appear on your doorstep just like that with no warning if she thought my relative was around (driving dozens of miles out of her way), and she’d call incessantly wherever she thought he was. It was like she’d had no upbringing at all–which she probably hadn’t.

 

[Evania]

Well, I live in the US. You live in Australia. I CAN"T say anything to you face to face. Does that mean that I can’t comment?

You asked for advice and you got it.

If you wanted for people to agree with you and your actions, you should have said so. Or maybe you could have posted in the “Prayer Intentions” thread. That way few people comment. They simply pray for you.

But since you asked for advice, we took our life experience (mine with a meddling obnoxious MIL) and offered you what we could.

I agree with you that experience often forms a person’s advice, but it’s possible to offer loving feedback to this woman’s real problems as opposed to what she’s been unfairly receiving. Like you noted, she did ask for help and you are taking your life experience with a meddling obnoxious MIL and offering advice. The young woman she’s dealing with may be nothing like you, and Shae may not be anything like your obnoxious MIL, but your advice is as if she were. No wonder this poster feels hurt. Then when she expresses that hurt, she gets comments like, " You asked for advice. You’ve got it." Come on! Maybe your “tough love” technique works on people that you really know and love, but seldom does it work on complete strangers. It takes a lot of courage to lay your heart out and tell people your struggles. It’s an utter cop out to say, “We’ll maybe you should have posted in the prayer intentions.”

Since you are advising the OP to reach out to this young woman, I hope you do the same to your MIL so she can see her grand kids. Unless she is evil beyond description, no one deserves to have her family turned against her. I’m not saying this is necessarily you, but you posted: “As Cat said, make friends now. Because if they get married, she will be the one talking to him about where to spend Christmas.” If that is you, than yes, I can see why your MIL doesn’t care for you. Furthermore, although your husband should always back you up, if this is how he allows you to treat his mother, than that’s shameful.
It’s a fact that a lot of women get married and feel threatened by the woman who brought their husband into the world. Is this you? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, life is too short and we’re called to forgive.

 

[maryjk]

Since you are advising the OP to reach out to this young woman, I hope you do the same to your MIL so she can see her grand kids. Unless she is evil beyond description, no one deserves to have her family turned against her. I’m not saying this is necessarily you, but you posted: “As Cat said, make friends now. Because if they get married, she will be the one talking to him about where to spend Christmas.”** If that is you, than yes, I can see why your MIL doesn’t care for you. Furthermore, although your husband should always back you up, if this is how he allows you to treat his mother, than that’s shameful.**

Very interesting point. Since I wasn’t the one to cut off contact. She was. She doesn’t see her grandchild because she can’t be bothered to call, send a card or visit. She has done the same to her own son. That’s what’s shameful.

It’s a fact that a lot of women get married and feel threatened by the woman who brought their husband into the world. Is this you? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, life is too short and we’re called to forgive.

My MIL is pretty much evil beyond description. I’m not the only one to think so. But until SHE cut off contact, I put up with it, so my son and husband could have a relationship with her.

BUT my advice would be the same to anyone having problems with their grown son’s girlfriend.

Which was, to know, that if you don’t make friends, now, before they are married, you may end up cut off from your grandchildren. Would I do that? Nope. My mother raised me better. But not everyone’s mother did the same.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’ve looked over Shae’s posts and don’t see where she calls the girl’s family “trashy”.

No, she described* behavior she did not like–belittling others (including her son), grasping for material things (which is particularly worrisome in the absence of a habit of reciprocal generosity), and complaining. Then the mother actually worried that she was out of line because this young woman picked up a less-than-enthusiastic vibe from her. Were I a friend* of the son in this story, I’d be concerned if his mother *liked *this woman. You have to wonder if any of his friends like her, either.

Still, good men have chosen to marry worse women than this. Do pray, OP. Pray a lot!

 

[Evania]

Very interesting point. Since I wasn’t the one to cut off contact. She was. She doesn’t see her grandchild because she can’t be bothered to call, send a card or visit. She has done the same to her own son. That’s what’s shameful.
My MIL is pretty much evil beyond description. I’m not the only one to think so. But until SHE cut off contact, I put up with it, so my son and husband could have a relationship with her.

BUT my advice would be the same to anyone having problems with their grown son’s girlfriend.

Which was, to know, that if you don’t make friends, now, before they are married, you may end up cut off from your grandchildren. Would I do that? Nope. My mother raised me better. But not everyone’s mother did the same.

I just want to be clear that I’m in no way accusing you of being the type of woman I’ve described. I just felt an urge early on when I saw your earlier post about your MIL not seeing her grand kids, and wanted to encourage reconciliation. If she is the one not calling them, then that’s all on her. Unfortunately, all we can do is pray that the stubborn party (In this case hers) heart is softened.

 

[Cat]

No, she described* behavior she did not like–belittling others (including her son), grasping for material things (which is particularly worrisome in the absence of a habit of reciprocal generosity), and complaining. Then the mother actually worried that she was out of line because this young woman picked up a less-than-enthusiastic vibe from her. Were I a friend* of the son in this story, I’d be concerned if his mother *liked *this woman. You have to wonder if any of his friends like her, either.

Still, good men have chosen to marry worse women than this. Do pray, OP. Pray a lot!

EasterJoy, I know that you already know this, but I’ll mention it anyway and I think we all need to keep it in mind.

We are hearing only the OP’s side of the story. We aren’t hearing from the son or the girlfriend.

I’m NOT saying that the OP is telling untruths.

What I’m saying is that our perceptions are often colored by our own prejudices, life experiences, etc., and so we do not always perceive things accurately.

E.g., a lot of couples trade witticisms with each other and keep up a running volley of quips, pet names (which aren’t always “nice” e.g., “Goofy”), jokes, barbs, fast breaks, snappy answers, puns, etc.
’
To others, this “dialogue” sometimes comes across as “belittling each other.” But the couple doesn’t see it that way–they’re just having fun and entertaining each other!.

Think of all the older people you know who constantly “pick at”/tease each other, or who call each other names like, “the better half” or “the little woman,” “the boss,” or whatever. These dear old couples must be “judged” on their long lives together, not on their words, because sometimes the words come across as insulting or belittling. It’s just their way.

“Grasping for material things”–again, this is in the eye of the beholder. It may well be that the young woman in the OP is materialistic and grasping.

But it’s also possible that perhaps she’s just interested in bettering herself and beautifying her surroundings, and she discusses her “wish list” with her boyfriend and anyone else who will listen. My husband and I do that all the time–we talk about all our plans and dreams for our home and our lives (most of which we can’t afford!)–I suppose to those who don’t know us or who don’t like us, we may very well sound materialistic. Again, others need to know us better and they will quickly see that we are far from materialistic and that even though we dream big, we spend small.

Finally “complaining.” Again, this is in the eye of the beholder. One person’s complaint session is another person’s “wish list” or brainstorming session or “think tank.”

Think about how many people here on CAF post about various “complaints” about their parish–these people usually don’t mean to complain! They just want to see things improve in the Family of God, and they are seeking discussion about what actions are appropriate to bring about the improvements.

 

[KimberlyCat]

Why is your 24 year old son still living at home at all? He is an adult. He can’t have it both ways. Part time with you and part time with the girlfriend? Ridiculous. I hope you do not do his laundry for him or ever give him any money.

It sounds like he has a good job which is very good. Is he college educated? Who even cares about his crazy girlfriend? It’s your home and if you cannot feel comfortable in your home I say don’t ever invite her over again. If she shows up tell her she is not welcome. She doesn’t even deserve an explanation. YOUR name is on the mortgage. Too bad. So sad. If she continues to show up get a restraining order against her. If your son has a problem with it too bad. All you can do is advise him that his girlfriend is using him and shows no respect for him or for others. Tell him that you are very disappointed in his choice for a girlfriend. Let him know she is not welcome in your home. He is an adult. If he decides to move out because of this that is WONDERFUL. Since he will be totally alone with her and not have you and your home to escape to he will realize for himself what torture he is under and hopefully he will end this delusional relationship. This needs to be taken care of right away before she somehow secretly empties his banking and savings accounts. She sounds very manipulative and will somehow figure out a way to do it.

Just my humble opinion. I honestly didn’t mean to come across rude. Just wanted to get my point across. My prayers are with you. I know it’s not an easy time.