Wishing to be Protestant again...

[rinnie]

You can tell by the Gospel Jesus had a good sense of humor

Makes you wonder what the Apostles were like.

You can tell Peter was pretty outspoken. You could tell because Jesus would say Peter what do you think? He probally said that because he KNEW Peter was going to say what he thought.

I bet St Paul was the most serious one. And the real nervous one. He seemed to be the one who always wanted to do better.

It makes you wonder which one had the sense of humor the most. Probally John because he was referred to the one Jesus loved most. Reminds me of my little Brother. He always said Mom and Dad love me best

Wonder who would have been our favorite Apostle if we got to see them.

Like Pope John Paul 11 he was so good with all people, and kind and always happy smiling. Pope Benedict seems more serious. But he is so good at his teachings when you read his books.

Pope JPII had a way of getting to people and even if they did not agree with all he said all faiths loved him. Most all anyway.

Pope Benedict is more like here it is, now listen up.

 

[Protestant101]

We had one here I forget his name. I can still see him. He said what keeps us out of heaven is we have big butts.

Then he said I would go to Church today BUT its my only day to sleep in. Or I would go to Church today BUT I have to mow the grass, etc. Then he said how many of you have alot of big but’s.

Ha ha! I like this! It’s so true and I think both Catholics & Protestants use their big buts.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Rinnie, Crazzetto, et alia,

It is good to see this C.A. Forum return to the issue of preaching. Sermons are not so important, in my view, as the liturgy (even the limp Novus Ordo, and certainly, far better, the 1962 Missale Romanum, the return of which to active use Pope Benedict rightly is advocating), but sermons really are far more significant in the life and spiritual development of the faithful than most priests seem to be willing to agreee about this matter (at least by example of doing some serious preaching themselves). It should not only be on Catholic radio and TV that one can hear substantial, orthodox preaching. That should be occurring in every Catholic parish. (On the other hand, if a rogue priest advocates heresy and disobedience, however eloquently, the less he preaches, the better!) I hope that the seminaries will educate priestly candidates better so that they will be equipped to stand for the truth in good, solid preaching.

I tended to be suspicious of Pope Benedict XVI’s own orthodoxy early in his Papacy, but he seems to be demonstrating that he is not some mildly liberal academic anymore, but a real Pope taking stands for the truth. I’ll have to get around, after all, to reading some of his books.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[BernadetteM]

Really it is an individual based on his own preference whether a sermon is good or not.

When one says they haven’t heard any good sermons, what are they expecting to hear?

Our priests aren’t as “entertaining” maybe in their preaching, but many preach great solid sermons based on the faith. One in which people can relate to in their everyday life.

I have been to some protestant churches where the preacher pounds on the podium and shouts, wipes his brow etc. Is that what people want in a sermone? Not I.

A priest might be soft spoken and not make with the jokes, but his message is spot on.

I also feel after VII and political correctness that many priests feel intimidated to really speak out about sin and hell. This is a shame, that is why so many Catholics don’t go to confession anymore, they think like protestants and don’t feel the need to have their sins absolved or maybe don’t even feel they have sinned.

I thank God that my parish has confession everyday and before each Mass and that our priests, each with their own unique way preaches the Gospel. I listen and I feel many Catholics just turn off when it comes to a sermon. One of our priests has related his own sin, not one that is immoral, but more of a personality trait and it related to a person in my family. I was grateful for his honesty and how he has made amends for what he found lacking within himself.

If one likes the yelling and condemnation that you might hear in some denominations, I don’t think you will hear many priests doing this. There are some who are more vocal, but within bounds, ie. Fr. John Corapi and Fr. Bill Casey and I am sure that there are many more. Hopefully once Pope Benedict cleans up the liberal and feel good clergy we will hear more great sermons. If a sermon even reaches one person’s heart and changes them it is worth how others might perceive what they have heard.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Bernadette,

**You wrote: ** *Really it is an individual based on his own preference whether a sermon is good or not. When one says they haven’t heard any good sermons, what are they expecting to hear? Our priests aren’t as “entertaining” maybe in their preaching, but many preach great solid sermons based on the faith. One in which people can relate to in their everyday life. I have been to some Protestant churches where the preacher pounds on the podium and shouts, wipes his brow etc. Is that what people want in a sermone? Not I. A priest might be soft spoken and not make with the jokes, but his message is spot on.

I also feel after VII and political correctness that many priests feel intimidated to really speak out about sin and hell. This is a shame, that is why so many Catholics don’t go to confession anymore, they think like Protestants and don’t feel the need to have their sins absolved or maybe don’t even feel they have sinned.

I thank God that my parish has confession everyday and before each Mass and that our priests, each with their own unique way preaches the Gospel. I listen and I feel many Catholics just turn off when it comes to a sermon…

If one likes the yelling and condemnation that you might hear in some denominations, I don’t think you will hear many priests doing this. There are some who are more vocal, but within bounds, ie. Fr. John Corapi and Fr. Bill Casey and I am sure that there are many more. Hopefully once Pope Benedict cleans up the liberal and feel good clergy we will hear more great sermons. If a sermon even reaches one person’s heart and changes them it is worth how others might perceive what they have heard.*​

You made some good points, Bernadette, in your comments about preaching and about the sacrament of Confession. However, good preaching consists of more than entertainment value, than appeal to the sentiments, than pulpit manner and effective oratory, all that sort of thing. It should first of all be solid and abounding in meaningful content. Good expository preaching is what is appropriate most of the time, taking the readings at Mass and expounding them, comparing them with other passages of Holy Scripture and the great writings of the Fathers of the Church, the decrees of all of the Councils (not just of Vatican II, which gets overworked), and other such important literature. Another approach is doctrinal, dealing with particular doctrine(s) and setting forth Catholic teaching by resort to the Scriptures and Holy Tradition. There is room for amusing comments, sparingly used, and for anecdotes and that sort of thing, but a priest should not forget that he was ordained to be a priest, not a stand-up comedian.

If the content of the sermon is good, then the sermon is a good one, period! All the pulpit pounding, Bible and Missal thumping, rant, and other such oratorical technics amount to nothing if the sermon is weak doctrinally and exegetically. The same applies to jokes that get “belly laughs”. A priest may not have a polished pulpit manner or delivery that can impress beyond the worth of the content of a sermon, but that does not matter. If he preaches the truth and conveys it to the people in the pews, not condescending to them, but also not wowing or flattering them, he does what a preacher should set out to do. The length of a sermon should be adequate to its subject, and that, dear friends, is almost never merely five minutes of vague and generalised homilising! Some folks will tune out even the best (and shortest) sermons; there is no remedy for that but to persist in preaching well.

How right you are about Confession! There is an unconscionable neglect of this sacrament in the Church today. I live in a city with a diocese in which the practice of auricular Confession on a regular basis has practically been abandoned. Also tossed aside are the penitential prayers at the beginning of Mass. How can one dare to approach God without saying the Confiteor or other penitential prayers? Can can one say or sing the Kyrie, beseeching God’s forgiveness for sins that one has neglected to acknowledge? This is scandalous!

Even when one wrangles a priest into hearing one’s confession, he often is so lackadaisical and permissive in his attitude towards sin that he simply condones what one has done! This is not right; such an attitude means that one almost might as well not even bother with auricular Confession, when its practice is so abused and one leaves feeling that the priest has not even facilitated one’s confession of what really and objectively is sin. Of course, one is forgiven if one confesses and is absolved, whatever the individual priest’s attitude may be. I hope that such abuse and neglect of Confession (Sacrament of Reconciliation or however it is labelled) is not so widespread as it seems to be here in Québec, but, of course, I know that these are not simply local problems—.

Yes, there is need for good and proper preaching and for a restoration of all that pertains to penitential practice in the Church, within the liturgy and through Confession.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, Crazzetto, et alia,

It is good to see this C.A. Forum return to the issue of preaching. Sermons are not so important, in my view, as the liturgy (even the limp Novus Ordo, and certainly, far better, the 1962 Missale Romanum, the return of which to active use Pope Benedict rightly is advocating), but sermons really are far more significant in the life and spiritual development of the faithful than most priests seem to be willing to agreee about this matter (at least by example of doing some serious preaching themselves). It should not only be on Catholic radio and TV that one can hear substantial, orthodox preaching. That should be occurring in every Catholic parish. (On the other hand, if a rogue priest advocates heresy and disobedience, however eloquently, the less he preaches, the better!) I hope that the seminaries will educate priestly candidates better so that they will be equipped to stand for the truth in good, solid preaching.

I tended to be suspicious of Pope Benedict XVI’s own orthodoxy early in his Papacy, but he seems to be demonstrating that he is not some mildly liberal academic anymore, but a real Pope taking stands for the truth. I’ll have to get around, after all, to reading some of his books.

Pax, Jerry Parker

May I recommend Jesus of Nazareth. Not just to Catholic’s but to Everyone. THe best book I ever read in my life. Its awesome.

 

[rinnie]

Really it is an individual based on his own preference whether a sermon is good or not.

When one says they haven’t heard any good sermons, what are they expecting to hear?

Our priests aren’t as “entertaining” maybe in their preaching, but many preach great solid sermons based on the faith. One in which people can relate to in their everyday life.

I have been to some protestant churches where the preacher pounds on the podium and shouts, wipes his brow etc. Is that what people want in a sermone? Not I.

A priest might be soft spoken and not make with the jokes, but his message is spot on.

I also feel after VII and political correctness that many priests feel intimidated to really speak out about sin and hell. This is a shame, that is why so many Catholics don’t go to confession anymore, they think like protestants and don’t feel the need to have their sins absolved or maybe don’t even feel they have sinned.

I thank God that my parish has confession everyday and before each Mass and that our priests, each with their own unique way preaches the Gospel. I listen and I feel many Catholics just turn off when it comes to a sermon. One of our priests has related his own sin, not one that is immoral, but more of a personality trait and it related to a person in my family. I was grateful for his honesty and how he has made amends for what he found lacking within himself.

If one likes the yelling and condemnation that you might hear in some denominations, I don’t think you will hear many priests doing this. There are some who are more vocal, but within bounds, ie. Fr. John Corapi and Fr. Bill Casey and I am sure that there are many more. Hopefully once Pope Benedict cleans up the liberal and feel good clergy we will hear more great sermons. If a sermon even reaches one person’s heart and changes them it is worth how others might perceive what they have heard.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

I agree with you also Bernadette. By the way thats my sisters name too Every Priest is doing the best he can with the Grace God gave him.

And I agree its okay to have a few jokes here and there to lighten up. But I also agree its Gods word that we need to hear. To each his own as my Mother always says. But the most imporant time for me is the Eucharist. When I can go up an receive my Dear Lord.

 

[distracted]

Distracted,

**You wrote: ** * How do you feel about Pope B[enedict] saying that being in adoration is not the same as having a conversation with God…?

weird… .last time i looked Jesus IS God…

seems he is saying the Real Presence isn’t real—.*​

Well, Jesus is God and He is present, body, soul, divinity, in the Holy Eucharist and in the consecrated elements of bread and wine, which become Him, so I don’t see the problem. The only difficulty, one of acculturation to Roman Catholic devotionalism, is from the Lutheran way of insisting that the consecrated Elements are to be taken, eaten, and drunk, rather than exposed, paraded, and “gawked at”. (That is not meant to demean the reality of the Real Presence, just to deal with how properly to honour God.)

I never felt too keen, either, on Benediction of the Blessèd Sacrament and that kind of thing (although I love the Corpus Christi and the triumphal march of the Holy Body of Jesus through the streets of a city), which somehow strikes me as a bit unseemly and exaggerated, but you really do not have to be overly concerned about this. Devotions are optional; go with the ones which best nourish your spiritual life. Me, I love litanies and novenas, especially when they are chanted! God bless you!

Pax, Jerry Parker

i dont u/stand… Is being in the Real PResence some kind of No no or something??? since when??

geeze… all this conflicting info… What’s a person to do?:banghead::hypno:

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Distracted,

**You wrote: ** *I don’t understand—. Is being in the Real Presence some kind of “no-no” or something [of the kind]??? since when??

Geeze… all this conflicting info… What’s a person to do? *​

I hope that my own words (to which you added the above) are not part of the confusion. When I mentioned the attitude towards extra-eucharistic display of, and devotion to, the reserved Blessèd Sacrament on the part of believing Lutherans (from whom I returned to the Catholic Church), who indeed believe in the Real Presence, despite their dislike of such devotions apart from the Mass, I was not advocating their stance, merely stating it.

I think that Lutheran squeamishness about honouring the Blessèd Sacrament, not only in the midst of the Eucharist, but apart from its celebration, may undermine their teaching, however subtly and insidiously, about the genuineness of Christ’s complete Presence in the Sacrament’s Elements of Bread and Wine (become His Body and Blood). Such Lutherans can slide all too easily into Receptionism, which is contrary to the teaching of the Lutheran Confessions; even some modern Catholics are falling into Receptionist thinking, due to similar squeamishness (among other reasons).

I still feel a bit aloof from the kind of devotionalism that Benediction of the Blessèd Sacrament, for example, represents, but this is just a matter of getting used to that, not of denying or casting doubt on it. It takes time for a convert to adjust his feelings and perceptions, even when doctrinally he has been set aright. Others may have a “no-no” attitude, as you put it, but not myself! If others have such qualms, they should get over them—.

As for what a person is to do, as you ask, he should hew to the traditional teaching and spirituality of the Roman Catholic Church across the centuries, rather than to give heed to seducing spirits among theologians and trendy clergy who (unlike many others who remain faithful) would sow doubt where there should be none whatsoever!

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[rinnie]

how do you feel about Pope B saying that being in adoration is not the same as having a conversation with God…?

weird… .last time i looked Jesus IS God…

seems he is saying the Real Presence isn’t real…

Distracted I am a little confused. Where does the Pope saying that when we worship God in Mass and the Eucharist not being the same as our one on one time with him alone in a conversation (our quiet time) with him mean that he is still not present in the Mass?

Could you show me where he did say that so I can read it in context. But from what you are saying in that quote I do not see how the Pope is in anyway denying the presence of Christ in the Mass, he would never say that.

I think what you have to look at is the word adoration and what it means. It means to worship God, have great love or devotion to. So I can see why adoration would not be spending our one on one time with God in talking to him. Not that it is not possible, but I think what he is saying the one hour a week does not cut it. It is not the same as going into your room, or outside and spending a hour or ten minutes whatever alone with you and God in prayer.

I really think what he is saying is we need to spend time out of Church with God also. Again could you show me where you read the quote and I can get a better understanding for sure.

 

[rinnie]

Okat Distracted I found it.

Here is what Pope Benedict said.

Quote The Eucharistic Adoration is simply the Natural consequence of the Eucharistic celebration which is itself the Church’s Supreme act of Adoration. The act of adoration outside Mass prolongs and Intensifies all that takes place during the Liturgical celebration. Unquote.

What Pope Benedict is saying is we need to spend quiet time sitting before him alone sometimes because it is hard to hear Jesus speaking to us when there are alot of People and noise around us.

Father Damien Wee explains it to you. But what the Pope is saying is you can spend your time alone with God in Church before the Eucharist OUTSIDE of MASS and it PROLONGS and makes stronger that Grace we need in our lives.

I remember this now being said in Church. Where are even told we can make our own little Chapel in our homes with a Statue or Cross of Jesus and spend time there alone with him in prayer.

What are Priest said is we should not just check in at the door and check out, We should take time in our lives to stop in and have our silent time in prayer with Christ in Church, or if we cannot get there have our own little place in our homes to also spend time with him outside of mass.

So do you see what he is saying, we can worship Christ outside of Mass also, not just during Mass. He is actually saying the opposite of what you think he is saying.

He is saying God is just not present in the Eucharist, he can be present in our lives anytime we want him. Re read the quote now, it will make better sense now.

 

[Protestant101]

May I recommend Jesus of Nazareth. Not just to Catholic’s but to Everyone. THe best book I ever read in my life. Its awesome.

Who is this book by, and where can I ge it? Do you know if it can be read online anywhere.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Hi, Protestant 101,

**Rinnie and you wrote: *Rinnie: * May I recommend “Jesus of Nazareth”, not just to Catholic’s but to everyone. Th[is is th]e best book I ever read in my life. It’s awesome.

Protestant 101: Who is this book by, and where can I ge it? Do you know if it can be read online anywhere. **​

I have not acquired and/or read this book, either, but Rinnie originally mentioned it when I had mentioned Pope Benedict XVI’s books, so I assume that the current Pope is the author of this and of many other fine books.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[crazzeto]

Hi, Protestant 101,

**Rinnie and you wrote: *Rinnie: *** May I recommend “Jesus of Nazareth”, not just to Catholic’s but to everyone. Th[is is th]e best book I ever read in my life. It’s awesome.

Protestant 101: Who is this book by, and where can I ge it? Do you know if it can be read online anywhere.​

I have not acquired and/or read this book, either, but Rinnie originally mentioned it when I had mentioned Pope Benedict XVI’s books, so I assume that the current Pope is the author of this and of many other fine books.

Pax, Jerry Parker

I have it, but I haven’t read it yet… I’m looking forward to it, in fact I also got the study guide for it. I just need to get through the Gospel of St. John and Romans first.

 

[distracted]

Distracted I am a little confused. Where does the Pope saying that when we worship God in Mass and the Eucharist not being the same as our one on one time with him alone in a conversation (our quiet time) with him mean that he is still not present in the Mass?

Could you show me where he did say that so I can read it in context. But from what you are saying in that quote I do not see how the Pope is in anyway denying the presence of Christ in the Mass, he would never say that.

I think what you have to look at is the word adoration and what it means. It means to worship God, have great love or devotion to. So I can see why adoration would not be spending our one on one time with God in talking to him. Not that it is not possible, but I think what he is saying the one hour a week does not cut it. It is not the same as going into your room, or outside and spending a hour or ten minutes whatever alone with you and God in prayer.

I really think what he is saying is we need to spend time out of Church with God also. Again could you show me where you read the quote and I can get a better understanding for sure.

i was at another thread… i think the title was… hmm… well, anyway… can’t think right now but if you google it you’ll probably find it…

but dont bother telling me i am misinterpeting what he said… it is written in plain English…

 

[distracted]

I I think that Lutheran squeamishness about honouring the Blessèd Sacrament, not only in the midst of the Eucharist, but apart from its celebration, may undermine their teaching, however subtly and insidiously, about the genuineness of Christ’s complete Presence in the Sacrament’s Elements of Bread and Wine (become His Body and Blood). Such Lutherans can slide all too easily into Receptionism, which is contrary to the teaching of the Lutheran Confessions; even some modern Catholics are falling into Receptionist thinking, due to similar squeamishness (among other reasons).

I still feel a bit aloof from the kind of devotionalism that Benediction of the Blessèd Sacrament, for example, represents, but this is just a matter of getting used to that, not of denying or casting doubt on it. It takes time for a convert to adjust his feelings and perceptions, even when doctrinally he has been set aright. Others may have a “no-no” attitude, as you put it, but not myself! If others have such qualms, they should get over them—.

As for what a person is to do, as you ask, he should hew to the traditional teaching and spirituality of the Roman Catholic Church across the centuries, rather than to give heed to seducing spirits among theologians and trendy clergy who (unlike many others who remain faithful) would sow doubt where there should be none whatsoever!

Pax, Jerry Parker

Lutherans can believe in the RP but that doesn’t mean they HAVE “it”… The only way they’d have it is if they have a former Catholic priest as a minister… most don’t…

but anyhow…i’m not sure i entirely u/stand your post…

but anyone who says the REal Pres isn’t real… is… well… unreal… doesn’t know what he’s talking about…

guess some want to put God in a box…

& some, against His wishes… want to take Him out…

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Distracted,

Good point! The Lutherans may have an hard time maintaining the Real Presence precisely because they cannot experience at their own altars – can assert it but cannot feed on Jesus in His Sacrament because of their defective ordinations. However, they really do try hard!

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[distracted]

Okat Distracted I found it.

Here is what Pope Benedict said.

Quote The Eucharistic Adoration is simply the Natural consequence of the Eucharistic celebration which is itself the Church’s Supreme act of Adoration. The act of adoration outside Mass prolongs and Intensifies all that takes place during the Liturgical celebration. Unquote.

What Pope Benedict is saying is we need to spend quiet time sitting before him alone sometimes because it is hard to hear Jesus speaking to us when there are alot of People and noise around us.

Father Damien Wee explains it to you. But what the Pope is saying is you can spend your time alone with God in Church before the Eucharist OUTSIDE of MASS and it PROLONGS and makes stronger that Grace we need in our lives.

I remember this now being said in Church. Where are even told we can make our own little Chapel in our homes with a Statue or Cross of Jesus and spend time there alone with him in prayer.

What are Priest said is we should not just check in at the door and check out, We should take time in our lives to stop in and have our silent time in prayer with Christ in Church, or if we cannot get there have our own little place in our homes to also spend time with him outside of mass.

So do you see what he is saying, we can worship Christ outside of Mass also, not just during Mass. He is actually saying the opposite of what you think he is saying.

He is saying God is just not present in the Eucharist, he can be present in our lives anytime we want him. Re read the quote now, it will make better sense now.

not true…

apparently from what i can gather he never used to believe much in the Real Presence… but as another poster helped me to see, he changed… and now promotes the Real Presence… and there is nothing on Earth like it… you can’t compare praying in your own home to praying @ the RP… totally different… For one thing i bleieve the souls in Purgatory are There gathered around the Tabernacle… I heard that from some holy person’s writings… can’t recall where i heard it… but i totally believe… cuz i have been to the RP many times…

 

[cathdoki]

Lutherans can believe in the RP but that doesn’t mean they HAVE “it”… The only way they’d have it is if they have a former Catholic priest as a minister… most don’t…

but anyhow…i’m not sure i entirely u/stand your post…

but anyone who says the REal Pres isn’t real… is… well… unreal… doesn’t know what he’s talking about…

guess some want to put God in a box…

& some, against His wishes… want to take Him out…

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Distracted,

**You wrote: ** Not true [re. Pope Benedict’s Catholic orthodoxy or less than that regarding the Real Presence in the Eucharist]. Apparently from what I can gather he never used to believe much in the Real Presence (R.P.). But as another poster helped me to see, he changed and now promotes the Real Presence. And there is nothing on Earth like it. You can’t compare praying in your own home to praying at * the R.P., totally different… For one thing i believe t[hat t]he souls in Purgatory are there gathered around the Tabernacle. I heard that from some holy person’s writings [but] can’t recall where I heard it, ut I totally believe – cuz i have been to the RP many times.​

I gather that Pope Benedict, when he still was Cardinal Ratzinger, held somewhat neo-orthodox views on many matters (something like Karl Barth Catholicised or like Bernard Haering). Some of his opinions that were public then seemed to reflect that. As regards the Real Presence, I have not heard about his earlier views regarding that particular matter. However, I, too, remark a difference in Benedict as his Papacy already has progressed. One could speculate about why.

Perhaps confronted (in such a much greater position of power in the Church that he now holds) with liberalism’s potential for shipwreck of the Faith he has come to realise the full turpitude of the liberals’ treachery and compromise with the Holy Faith, and, appalled, he has recoiled from what had seemed too wrongly comfortable to him in the past. Or, perhaps, in the Seat of St. Peter, the Holy Spirit really has taken hold of him to preserve him from error. Either way, I hope that he does not relapse to compromising quasi-neo-orthodox stances.

Pax, Jerry Parker*