I once had all these reservations, too–and more! To me, praying to Mary was plain idolatry and strictly forbidden.
This paragraph sums up everything protestants, and myself struggle with…the fact that she can be without sin!! that’s a a hard one…lol… most of these points have been covered loads though
I never had the benefit of coming to a website like this to ask questions about Mary or anything else. I just read on my own and came to my own conclusions. Believe me, I “wrestled with the angel” many nights and struggled in prayer for months before any of the teachings about Mary began to make any sense to me.This paragraph sums up everything protestants, and myself struggle with…the fact that she can be without sin!! that’s a a hard one…lol… most of these points have been covered loads though
Of course, these same Protestants believe in “prayer warriors” and “prayer circles” to whom they will go with their prayer requests. If God intended us to have nothing but a “Jesus and me” experience in intercessory prayer, why even form a Church or have corporate worship or any defined doctrines or dogmas? Man has never had a simple one-on-one relationship with God that excludes all others. We are the BODY of Christ made up of many members, not “Lone Rangers” for Jesus. Yes?
The type of Protestant that does not believe in the intercession of the saints are those farthest from the roots of Catholicism. Those that do believe in the communion of saints are closest, such as Anglicans and some Lutherans, etc.also I’m unsure if protestants believe that saints are capable of interceding in the first place. I personally find the thought of addressing a human in the way I would pray to God very uncomfortable and feel as if I’m doing something very very wrong
I would posit that His sorrowful passion included the unbelief in the awesomeness of Mary. He redeemed mankind eventhough it would later ignore, diminish, or even insult His own mother. Talk about a model of forgiveness and mercy. How many of us would die for a person that disrespected our mother?
what’s a prayer warrior and prayer circle??.. must be an american thing lol << shrugs shoulders
>>Sorry about the cultural allusions that meant nothing to you. I sometimes forget that people from countries other than the USA read and post here.what’s a prayer warrior and prayer circle??.. must be an american thing lol << shrugs shoulders
If the Catholic teaching about the communion of saints is wrong I would have no fears. Consider: if I am asking dead people to pray for me I have done no harm. I have not worshiped them or offered sacrifice to them or anything else that I should be offering to God alone. I’ve merely asked for their prayers and help in accordance with God’s will–no Catholic thinks of the saints apart from dwelling with God as if any saint, most especially Mary, were any sort of god unto him or herself.
Your argument presumes that failing to believe that someone was without original sin, and failing to treat that someone as a borderline deity, consitutes some sort of “insult” and failure of respect. I don’t know how many times I’ve said this in differing ways: if these are your criteria of decency and respectfulness, then I suppose I’m insulting my own mother, and the mothers of everyone else here to boot, by failing to believe it of them.
But in my experience those who make a point of calling Mary “sinner” rarely venerate her or call her blessed in any way. I realize that that doesn’t pertain to all Protestants, but it applies to many. If you searched old threads you’d know what I refer to (or maybe not–some of the worst may have been deleated.) I realize that one doesn’t have to believe Mary sinless in order to pay her honor as the mother of Jesus, but some Christians pay her no honor whatsoever as the mother of Jesus and instead take her on as if she were the enemy.
Even Jesus? He was a person too.
No, that’s not where the insult lies.
There are Protestants who go out of their way to say that Mary wasn’t just like you and me–she was worse than us. They insist she was an annoyance to her Son, and one who constantly had to be “put in her place.” They find nothing wrong with interpreting biblical passages with that already in mind even though nowhere in the NT does it ever say that Jesus found his mother a hindrance to his ministry. It’s a form of “Mary envy” and it’s not even the most virulent kind I saw during my days as a Pentecostalist.Well, there’s a bit of a difference between your mother and my mother (of blessed memory) or anyone else’s mother and the Mother of the Son of God. No one of us can claim to be fully God and fully man nor that our mothers conceived and bore the God-man in their wombs. No matter how we look at it, Mary was special–“blessed among women” in a way no other woman in history has ever or will ever be.
That was St. Augustine’s position, and the question was debated for centuries all the while belief in her Immaculate Conception was not discouraged by the Church. But, since the Church has pronounced the Immaculate Conception a dogma, the debate is over, just as all debate ended in Acts 13 once the Apostles ruled circumcision was not necessary for pagan believers.
lol yeah but he was God so I don’t think I need to answer that question really do I
It’s probably something like that. They probably think they defend their Christian faith, but they should do it without insulting Mary. Insulting Christ’ mother gives bad witness to Christianity.
I’ll have to take your word for it. However, I too was raised Pentecostal, and never encountered the sort of attitude that you describe. Maybe I was sheltered. Like others on this list, I think Mary was as good and great a person as ever saw the light of day, and is abundantly deserving of respect–we simply differ on what manner of respect is fitting.No, that’s not where the insult lies.
Multitudinous amens. I maintain, however, that a mere failure to match the high pitch of Catholic Marian attitudes & practices does not signal disrespect or disregard for Mary.Well, there’s a bit of a difference between your mother and my mother (of blessed memory) or anyone else’s mother and the Mother of the Son of God. No one of us can claim to be fully God and fully man nor that our mothers conceived and bore the God-man in their wombs. No matter how we look at it, Mary was special–“blessed among women” in a way no other woman in history has ever or will ever be.
Among Catholics, sure. But since this thread specifically deals with Protestant views on Marian doctrines (see title), appealing to 19th-century Vatican pronouncements on the subject is sort of begging the question.