With all these objections about Mary by Protestants, wouldn't you think Jesus

[Della]

You think because Protestants don’t believe the Marian doctrines that this is somehow an insult to Mary? Like most Protestants, I don’t think that Mary remained ever Virgin, was without sin, and was bodily assumed into heaven, but this doesn’t mean that I am insulting Mary. Mary is the Mother of God, forever blessed, and is a Saint in Heaven as we speak. Let’s not confuse differences in doctrine with “insults” to Mary, because they are not the same thing.

This is true. Differences in doctrinal beliefs are not insults. What is insulting is those Protestants who go out of their way to portray Mary as a clueless interfering busybody whose Son insulted her in public in order to “prove” he didn’t “need” her any more. Yes, that’s the mind set I saw and still see from some Protestants.

In answer to that mind set we Catholics say: Our Lord doesn’t need to be “protected” from devotion for his own Mother. Catholic devotion in no way adds to or detracts from the glory due to Christ, her Son–nothing ever could or ever will do that. And if for one nano-second we Catholics thought so we’d never utter another Hail Mary again in our lives.

I’ve also noticed that the most virulent anti-Marianist actually know next to nothing about the Church’s teachings. Or worse, there are those who scan Church teachings about Mary, not to learn what the Church truly teaches, but to find phrases and out-of-context quotes to throw into Catholics’ faces as “proof” that the Church must be wrong. Once again I have to say it, that is truly, truly sad. And I would think any Protestant who loves Jesus would say so too. Yes?

apophasis:

It’s insulting to her when men claim for her perpetual virginity and deny her her other children. It’s insulting when men claim her to be sinless when she herself adored God her Savior. It’s insulting to her when men exalt her to Queen status in Heaven when no Divine coronation was ever recorded. Such things, dear Della, ARE insulting to her since there is no Divinely revealed proof of ANY of these claims predicated of her by men. This is what is sad, truly sad.

Then Luther and Calvin and other of the reformers insulted her, too! What’s sad is the lack of knowledge many Protestants have about beliefs of the founders of their own denominations/of Protestantism in general.

And what is also truly sad is Protestants who don’t know or care to know the difference between doctrine and dogma, devotion and pious belief, but lump everything together into one package to be rejected out of hand simply because they either were not brought up to believe them and/or practice them or because they cannot/will not accept what they really know little about.

The reasons why the Church teaches what it does about Mary are sound for they exult Christ first and foremost, as anyone who has looked into them for himself with an open mind knows.

Also, they spring from Sacred Tradition out of which the NT came and which the Church has believed/practiced for centuries before the reformation. The Church has the primacy of place in history and reason. It is up to Protestants to prove the Church wrong–by careful examination of what the Church teaches not by simply declaring that what the Church teaches cannot be true.

 

[Justasking1964]

I am offended you (THINK) you know how Protestants think, or feel about pray or even the Mother Mary. I am Protestants and going through RCIA right now. I have been Protestants all my life and my parents still are. NOT all

“Protestants believe in prayer warriors and prayer circles”

do not group us all together. I have a future sister-in-law that is very much catholic and she is a member of several pray circles. What is wrong with it? A pray is a very strong and powerful thing. She prays for several people that needs her pray and she saids the Rosary for people in need of it. The church has a pray list for everyone to pray for and during the service ask if there are concerns and everyone is allowed to speak of a concern they would like prayed for. This is no different. I was taught to pray to GOD through Jesus and that is what I do. I know you do not have a

direct link with God.

I have learn in my RCIA class more about The Holy Mother Mary and that has helped me to understand that I can pray through her also and ask for help through her too. We know that Mary was a very special person even in my Protestant church times. She is the mother of my savor. I know now that she is even more special, and has become more to me than before. Protestants do not teach a lot about Mary (at least in the church I attended) and yes, I agree that they should teach more. The Protestants are missing out on something very special by not knowing her. The Protestant church I attended followed the Catholic believes somewhat closely, but it did not make me feel fulfilled, and now I feel completed since I have found some and still finding my answers, as my journey continues in my new found Catholic faith.

 

[Abira]

Abira;1770263:

I agree with the above people.

**I’m protestant at the moment **

Abira-

Does this mean you are in state of conversion to Catholicism…“at the moment”? What’s driving this need for more? A rhetorical question.

I know you said rhetorical… but to clarify, I don’t sense the absence of Mary in my life, although I am in the process of reassessing my faith on a personal level, and I do pray the rosary (with an anglical ammendment usually)

Take care.

S x

 

[Della]

Justasking1964:

I am offended you (THINK) you know how Protestants think, or feel about pray or even the Mother Mary. I am Protestants and going through RCIA right now. I have been Protestants all my life and my parents still are. NOT all

Della:

“Protestants believe in prayer warriors and prayer circles”

I’m afraid your ire is misplaced. I never claimed that ALL Protestants have the attitudes towards Mary that I outlined in my previous posts. Some do, though–the virulently anti-Catholic Protestants whom I have personally known. Having once been a liturgical as well as a Pentecostal Christian with a lot of experience in ministry, I know what I’m talking about.

Justasking1964:

do not group us all together. I have a future sister-in-law that is very much catholic and she is a member of several pray circles. What is wrong with it? A pray is a very strong and powerful thing. She prays for several people that needs her pray and she saids the Rosary for people in need of it. The church has a pray list for everyone to pray for and during the service ask if there are concerns and everyone is allowed to speak of a concern they would like prayed for. This is no different. I was taught to pray to GOD through Jesus and that is what I do. I know you do not have a

Quote:
direct link with God.

I never claimed to have a “direct link with God.” Perhaps someone else wrote this, but it wasn’t me.

As to prayer circles, etc., I never said they were a bad thing–just the opposite, in fact. Once again you’ve misunderstood me–no doubt due to my poor writing skills. Prayer warriors and prayer circles are good things, just as asking for the intercession of the saints, especially Mary, is. That was my point.

 

[Melchior]

With all these objections about Mary by Protestants, wouldn’t you think Jesus would be upset. How would you feel if someone insult your own mother?

I would be very upset. So, please I ask the Protestants for being so Anti-Mary. She is Jesus’ mother. Give her some respect.

Oh c’mon. Having honest questions and concersn is not being anti-Mary. If someone wondered if my mother had more than one child it would not be an insult to her. Etc.

 

[Della]

What and if, when we finally meet Mary (at the ressurection) she is dishonored by the Catholic veneration of her, and exalted and elated by the Protestants exaltion of Jesus? “Whatever He says, do it” and what did Jesus say? Did Jesus want us to go directly to God through him? or to him through Mary? Jesus said “…no one comes to the Father, except through me”. And what did the Apostles say? “There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus”

If what Catholics do by honoring Mary were wrong, then your scenario would be right, but we are not wrong in what we do because all the honor we give to Mary is for the glorification of her Son. When someone praises a family member who is good at something, for instance sports, the parents, brothers and sisters of that person are honored by their child and sibling’s achievements. That is what Catholics intend by honoring Mary. We glory in what God has done in all his saints and aren’t afraid to say so.

And if we were to delete all the rest of the Bible solely for the verses you cited then you might have a point. But, surely you aren’t saying that no one can offer up prayers for us on earth except Jesus? If that were the case then anyone who prays for another would be taking Jesus’ place with the Father. Of course, that’s not the case, and neither is it the case when Catholics ask for the intercession of the saints.

Protestants do not disrespect Mary they repect and love her, just as we would respect any of our deceased loved ones. In fact, at my Church we are having a class for women which uses Mary as an example of godliness.

Mary is not deceased. Neither are any of our loved ones who are in heaven. They are alive in Christ, as he himself told us they are:

Matt.22:32 “`I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Mark.12:27 “He is not God of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong.”

Luke.20:38 “Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to him.”

And, it’s a truly good thing for any Christian to learn about the godliness (as well as the other virtues) of Mary. I am encouraged to hear your Church is having such a class.

 

[teachccd]

also it links with the idea that many protestants do not pray to saints…ever ever! they believe in a direct line to God as was made possible by Jesus and everything else is just beating about the bush

Even if you were to ask me to pray for you?

also I’m unsure if protestants believe that saints are capable of interceding in the first place. I personally find the thought of addressing a human in the way I would pray to God very uncomfortable and feel as if I’m doing something very very wrong

See Rev 5:8. Who’s prayers are those? Anyway, we believe in a heavenly prayer group and I wouldn’t exclude them for anything. Jesus says that He is the vine and we are the branches. I would hope that I don’t get cut off the vine at death. And if I’m still part of the vine ( the Body of Christ) then I should be able to interceed for all members of the vine.

 

[Abira]

i would pray for someone else, and have asked someone to pray for me… but i would expect that they would also pray to god…so in effect it’s like two prayers to god rather than one…

not an ‘i’ll pray instead of you’… so just one link to god… but two links to god…or however many people pray.

that’s just my feeling on it, and i’m still really unsure about it all.

 

[teachccd]

I’m just putting that as a protestant view in general… they believe that all people who have lived have sinned… every last one

Even Jesus?? I didn’t know that.

 

[Abira]

Even Jesus?? I didn’t know that.

lol lol, reac the thread teach… i think i answered someone else who remarked the same way too… when i was typing i had some bible quote in my head and couldn’t place it… i think i was thinking of :

(1:ki, 8:46) If they sin against thee (for there is no man that sinneth not)…

I can’t remember now …so that’s the ‘every last one’ thing. i wouldn’t class jesus as a man, as he is a man-god, or both… i would have distinguished with another word. I think some of this stuff has been covered in other threads too. when i use the word man, i think human, as in the creation, not the creator.

 

[Sixtus]

To my Protestant brothers and sisters.

Please forgive me for using a shortened version of protestant.

I have received an infraction for this. I realise in retrospect that it was due., It was a genuine error on my part. Please accept my deepest and most sincere apologies

Yours Faithfully in Christ

Sixtus

 

[LilyM]

i would pray for someone else, and have asked someone to pray for me… but i would expect that they would also pray to god…so in effect it’s like two prayers to god rather than one…

not an ‘i’ll pray instead of you’… so just one link to god… but two links to god…or however many people pray.

that’s just my feeling on it, and i’m still really unsure about it all.

That’s exactly my attitude too, I pray together with the saints, I don’t tell them to pray instead of me! You’d be hard put, I think, to find a Catholic who doesn’t share your and my attitude.

 

[Abira]

That’s exactly my attitude too, I pray together with the saints, I don’t tell them to pray instead of me! You’d be hard put, I think, to find a Catholic who doesn’t share your and my attitude.

Ok Lily, I’ll take that on board. I have a hard time engaging with some Catholic ideas as they are so different to everything I’ve been brought up around.