With the pope against the homoheresy

[epan]

This is a difficult topic to get a handle on in the Church and in the military, for obvious reasons. But the best evidence is that 15-25% of priests are of a homosexual orientation, as compared to 4-5% of the general male population.

That pretty much puts it into perspective. It is no surprise that such a large concentration of gay people would form a subculture of their own.

But there is a bigger problem. With this ongoing fascination with sexual matters, nobody is talking about the fact the only one priest was ordained last year in the New York Archdiocese. An alleged “accessory after the fact” for child molestation is being allowed to vote to select the pope who will be burdened with cleaning up the mess. How can that be?

There is a pastoral crisis in the Catholic Church. The whole pelvic region fascination is just a symptom of the larger problem

 

[CopticChristian]

This is a difficult topic to get a handle on in the Church and in the military, for obvious reasons. But the best evidence is that 15-25% of priests are of a homosexual orientation, as compared to 4-5% of the general male population.

That pretty much puts it into perspective. It is no surprise that such a large concentration of gay people would form a subculture of their own.

Epan,

I have no idea what this means to you…

There are 7 billion people in the world as I understand it.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1200999.htm

At the end of 2010, the worldwide Catholic population reached 1.196 billion, an increase of 15 million or 1.3 percent, slightly outpacing the global population growth rate, which was estimated at 1.1 percent, said a statement published March 10 by the Vatican press office.

The Vatican said the number of bishops in the world increased from 5,065 to 5,104; the number of priests went from 410,593 to 412,236, increasing everywhere except Europe.

So,

based on the world population and the Catholic Population there are more homosexuals in the world as I see it…

5% of 7 billion= 50 million

as opposed to

14% of 400,000…=14,000 x 4= 64,000

What is it this means to you?

Show me the perspective that this has for you.

 

[epan]

Epan,

I have no idea what this means to you…

There are 7 billion people in the world as I understand it.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1200999.htm

So,

based on the world population and the Catholic Population there are more homosexuals in the world as I see it…

5% of 7 billion

as opposed to

14% of 400,000…

What is it this means to you?

Show me the perspective that this has for you.

Firstly, “catholic news” is not a source for accurate news, any more than Al Jazeera arabic edition, or Fox News, or Huffington Post. Each has a ideology to push.

Surveys of priests show an approximately 15% admission of homosexual orientation. Young priests report an approximately 23% homosexual orientation in anonymous surveys. I rounded to 25% as the upward limit, since it seems fair to assume under reporting, given the Church’s opinion on the topic. It might be more realistic to predict much larger numbers, in that sense.

But there is a larger problem. Over the past century, Catholic membership has declined only 1% worldwide as a percentage of population. But, when you look at “educated” countries, and when you look at the past decade, rather than the past century, the rate of decline is rather remarkable.

I have a sense, but no proof of course, that part of this phenomenon is the Church’s pelvic fascination in recent times.

 

[ringil]

Once the Church these days gets involved…it is not covered up, not advised, it is reported.

Well, I believe that is a good thing. I assume you do as well.

I just couldn’t tell from your post.

 

[ephesians4]

This is mind boggling. Mind. Boggling.
You put yourself forth as a devout Catholic. Do I really have to quote the Catechism to get you to understand that calling people names with the intention of demeaning them and attacking their character is sinful?

I would not have suspected this to be such a controversial issue.

Can we take it from that, that you consider the teachings of the Catholic church to be the truth and worth adhering to, then? Out of interest.

Anyway, why “slander”? The terms used (“homoheresy”, “homomafia”) are clearly meant to describe constructive and organized wrongdoing - in the attempt to harm Christianity and advance the process of normalizing homosexuality (a bad thing, if you are a stickler - not a matter of controversy)…

…anybody who is not actively and intentionally and doing this wrong thing, is not covered by the description, surely, so where is the slander?

You seem to be fumbling for a way to be outraged at the un-PC language used, but we are instructed to be kind and loving and not demean people, NOT to call evil things good, and good things evil - never are we told to do that by the church or the scripture.

 

[buffalo]

Can we take it from that, that you consider the teachings of the Catholic church to be the truth and worth adhering to, then? Out of interest.

Anyway, why “slander”? The terms used (“homoheresy”, “homomafia”) are clearly meant to describe constructive and organized wrongdoing - in the attempt to harm Christianity and advance the process of normalizing homosexuality (a bad thing, if you are a stickler - not a matter of controversy)…

…anybody who is not actively and intentionally and doing this wrong thing, is not covered by the description, surely, so where is the slander?

You seem to be fumbling for a way to be outraged at the un-PC language used, but we are instructed to be kind and loving and not demean people, NOT to call evil things good, and good things evil - never are we told to do that by the church or the scripture.

Truth with Love

not

Truth without Love
Love without Truth

 

[ephesians4]

Truth with Love

not

Truth without Love
Love without Truth

I could not agree more. In principle anyway, I am sure I fail to match this standard adequately. Must keep trying though

In this instance, that is probably smack bang in the middle of where most of our posts are.

 

[buffalo]

I could not agree more. In principle anyway, I am sure I fail to match this standard adequately. Must keep trying though

In this instance, that is probably smack bang in the middle of where most of our posts are.

Not everyone sees it that way. We have some that only want Love without truth.

 

[Tigg]

Throughout history the church has had to refine their teachings in response to new realities or new understandings of reality. For instance, we once believed the earth was the centre of the universe. At one time epileptics were even subject to exorcism. We even debated slavery. Social Justice teachings have also evolved due to new understandings of geopolitics and global economies…

Today, it seems that many denominations are trying to come to a deeper understanding of homosexuality because gays and lesbians are demanding to be treated with dignity and be granted a variety of rights. Also, science is bringing new understandings to the topic.
What is true is that societies and many denominations are trying to grapple with the issue of homosexuality because it is evident that this group of people have been treated poorly, and been systemically abused… For example, homosexuals also suffered in the holocaust, and today many are attacked on the streets… basically, the homosexuals have been victims of abuse and exclusion. For instance, Uganda is considering the death penalty for homosexuality.

In addition, many theologians (both Catholic and protestant) are debating this issue with many calling for significant changes to christian understandings and teachings with respect to homosexuality. …

I know the the debate is beginning and not over. Whatever the outcome of this debate we know that all good christians want to be on the side of truth, even if the truth is contrary to current teaching or if the truth just confirms present teaching. Whatever, the outcome, our current understandings of love dictate that we must love and be inclusive to all people as in their present state. I know that God accepts just as we are and not as we should be given we all fall short…this is why “all” need a saviour, both straight and gay. Like Christ said to Peter…"I have much more to tell you but you can not bear it…thus, I shall send a paraclete (Holy Spiritit). Thought history, we have, as a church adapted our understandings because the kingdom of God is unfolding and the Holy Spirit guides us and brings us to new and deeper understandings of truth. Ultimately, it is the truth that sets us free.

Are you actually suggesting that the Church may someday declare that an immoral act defined as a grave depravity will change? That a teaching once declared infallible will be reversed?

Perhaps there is confusion here between the dignity of the homosexual made in the image of God (this has been upheld by the bishops of the Catholic Church and they have admonished Catholics who are tempted to disregard this) and the sexual act itself.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Veritas,

Tell me what it is this means to you…

What it says: that homosexuality was the “dominant problem” when it comes to these sexual assaults and the subsequent cover-ups.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Can we take it from that, that you consider the teachings of the Catholic church to be the truth and worth adhering to, then? Out of interest.

Anyway, why “slander”? The terms used (“homoheresy”, “homomafia”) are clearly meant to describe constructive and organized wrongdoing - in the attempt to harm Christianity and advance the process of normalizing homosexuality (a bad thing, if you are a stickler - not a matter of controversy)…
.

Slander: a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report.

There is no “heresy” of homosexuality, nor is there any evidence of a “mafia” consisting of homosexuals. Therefore, these remarks are false.

No one likes to be accused of “heresy” or of being in a “mafia” as it is insulting. Therefore, these remarks are malicious.

These remarks are false and malicious. Therefore, these remarks are slander.

 

[fix]

Slander: a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report.

There is no “heresy” of homosexuality, nor is there any evidence of a “mafia” consisting of homosexuals. Therefore, these remarks are false.

No one likes to be accused of “heresy” or of being in a “mafia” as it is insulting. Therefore, these remarks are malicious.

These remarks are false and malicious. Therefore, these remarks are slander.

What proof do you have?

 

[fix]

Can we take it from that, that you consider the teachings of the Catholic church to be the truth and worth adhering to, then? Out of interest.

Anyway, why “slander”? The terms used (“homoheresy”, “homomafia”) are clearly meant to describe constructive and organized wrongdoing - in the attempt to harm Christianity and advance the process of normalizing homosexuality (a bad thing, if you are a stickler - not a matter of controversy)…

…anybody who is not actively and intentionally and doing this wrong thing, is not covered by the description, surely, so where is the slander?

You seem to be fumbling for a way to be outraged at the un-PC language used, but we are instructed to be kind and loving and not demean people, NOT to call evil things good, and good things evil - never are we told to do that by the church or the scripture.

You answer does not fit a moral relativistic narrative.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

What proof do you have?

What proof do I have that there isn’t a homosexual mafia? That’s freakin ridiculous. Is it your standard assumption that there is a mafia behind every door?

What proof do you have that there is one? Show me the homosexual organized crime group. Tell me about some of their murders. What kind of drugs do they deal? Do they engage in human trafficking?

Where is your proof that there is a “homoheresy”? Please direct me to that one in the catechism. Thanks.

 

[buffalo]

What proof do I have that there isn’t a homosexual mafia? That’s freakin ridiculous. Is it your standard assumption that there is a mafia behind every door?

What proof do you have that there is one? Show me the homosexual organized crime group. Tell me about some of their murders. What kind of drugs do they deal? Do they engage in human trafficking?

Where is your proof that there is a “homoheresy”? Please direct me to that one in the catechism. Thanks.

I am not getting your point. The investigation should stop?

Hypothetically - if there were say 10 homosexuals in the curia they wouldn’t vote as a block on some important church issue that would be in conflict? Can a conspiracy be informal or do they have to have written a formal contract?

 

[fix]

What proof do I have that there isn’t a homosexual mafia? That’s freakin ridiculous. Is it your standard assumption that there is a mafia behind every door?

The OP made his case. Can you dispute it?

What proof do you have that there is one?

See the OP.

Show me the homosexual organized crime group. Tell me about some of their murders. What kind of drugs do they deal? Do they engage in human trafficking?

You think the term Mafia only is defined in that particular way?

Where is your proof that there is a “homoheresy”? Please direct me to that one in the catechism. Thanks.

Please see the OP. It does not have to be a term used in the CCC to be real.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

You think the term Mafia only is defined in that particular way?

Certainly. A mafia is a criminal organization that employs violence and coercion to enrich itself at the expense of innocent victims.

No evidence exists for any such organization.

Please see the OP. It does not have to be a term used in the CCC to be real.

Is it your position that people can take it upon themselves to invest heresies?

 

[CopticChristian]

Certainly. A mafia is a criminal organization that employs violence and coercion to enrich itself at the expense of innocent victims.

No evidence exists for any such organization.

Is it your position that people can take it upon themselves to invest heresies?

Veritas,

You may ask the question of yourself…

If Mafia is a criminal organization that employs violence and coercision to enrich itself at the expense of innocent victims…you may be correct…

then

Why in the world is Amish Mafia a television show on TV that is broadcast, has commercials, and the Authotities are not involved in shutting down…if Mafia is always criminal as you say?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Veritas,

You may ask the question of yourself…

If Mafia is a criminal organization that employs violence and coercision to enrich itself at the expense of innocent victims…you may be correct…

then

Why in the world is Amish Mafia a television show on TV that is broadcast, has commercials, and the Authotities are not involved in shutting down…if Mafia is always criminal as you say?

It is a very disrepectful slander of the Amish people and in no way does this indicate that it is a Christian practice to slander others.

if you mean to tell me that your use of the word “mafia” is supposed to be an allusion to this one particular TV show, then fine. I would say you are disingenuous but fine. However, I doubt that this is what you were getting at, as almost no one would expect such a reference unless you make it explicit.

 

[CopticChristian]

It is a very disrepectful slander of the Amish people and in no way does this indicate that it is a Christian practice to slander others.

if you mean to tell me that your use of the word “mafia” is supposed to be an allusion to this one particular TV show, then fine. I would say you are disingenuous but fine. However, I doubt that this is what you were getting at, as almost no one would expect such a reference unless you make it explicit.

Veritas,

The word is being used in a way other than what you say indicating that the world may not see you definition as always applicable.