Withholding relations and crumbling marriage, Help!

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Hi,
There is a Chaplet of St. Joseph for family protection
Your change to Catholicism should be joyful. You are in a process of your own Nativity. You have a beautiful baby and wife. compliment her. Buy the $200.00 monitor if you can afford it. Let things calm down on the religion thing. Just build her up. Ephesians says you are to love her as Christ loves the Church, even to lay your life down for her.It says in Genesis the wife will desire her husband and in Ephesians she will respect him. The Bible never says she is to love him. Curious. But if you love her as Christ loves the church and she desires you(one of a man’s needs and she is to respect you-one of a man’s need) the love flows in a circle. Let Love flow now. Discuss your love of God after you bathe her in your love of her and the baby and the children. You have a wonderful life. God wants you to keep it. Google Chaplet of St. Joseph and pray it. Let her use a diaphragm or that machine will work great.

Be happy. Sell Jesus and his love.

in Christs love
tweedlealice
 
A thief comes only to steal and slaughter and destroy; I come so that they might have life and have it more abundantly. John 10:10
We pray the chaplet of Saint Joseph for family protection. IN today’s world, our enemy, Satan, seeks to destroy the family and our God-given family love. Unfortunately, many marriages end in divorce. However, we can triumph over all of the enemy’s empty works and promises through the power of Jesus crucified, and through the intercession of Our Blessed Mother, the angels and the saints. St. Joseph intercession is especially powerful.As the chosen Father of Jesus, Saint Joseph prays with us for the complete protection and flourishing of our families.

on the large beads:Saint Joseph, guardian of the HOly Family, bless our family.

on the small beads: Saint Joseph , pray for us.

concluding prayers:Jesus, Mary and Joseph, I give you my heart and my soul.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph assist me now and in my last agony.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph may I breathe forth my soul with you. Amen

BEADS=a medal of St. Joseph, followed by five introductory beads and 14 groups of 3 beads separated by one bead for a total of 61 beads

PLEASE JUST LOVE YOUR WIFE AND CHILDREN. LOVE HER W THE LOVE OF THE LORD.
in Christs’ love
tweedlealice
 
Hmm. Well, I can contribute a little.

To be totally honest, post-partum (err ya know, before the first period) NFP sucks. I was frustrated, she was frustrated, and we’re both totally pro-NFP.

HOWEVER, we sort of did this to ourselves. My wife got a fancy monitor, but wasn’t using it quite right. Like, once it got a high it wouldn’t read low until a peak. In retrospect, it shouldn’t have been that bad.

So I would suggest, as others have, getting a monitor. If you’re interested I can ask my wife what she uses. With the monitor, your time of abstaining shouldn’t be more than like 2 weeks at a time. And really, our love life is much better with NFP.

Another thing… judging from your posts, it sounds like she’s not religious, but if she’s Christian yet not Catholic, try reading If Protestantism is True with her.
 
St_Pancake said:
Here is a similar question and answer from Fr. Vincent Serpa from this website. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=884781&highlight=wife+using+birth+control
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This is right on. Don’t beat yourself up on this one. Sit down with this document, tell her your position, pray for her, and continue dialogue but don’t hassle her about it. God doesn’t want your journey, or hers for that matter, held up by this.

That document was prepared at the request of now Pope St. John Paul II. Put it to use.

I’m in a very similar situation because I converted, my wife did not, and she’s on the pill. As a matter of fact, when we were cohabitating before marriage it was my request that she start using it. Imagine how I feel now. That documant is all we got, brother. Do me a favor and save your marriage. Too many people throw that gift away these days.
 
agentlank said:
So I was recently received into the church and my wife did not join. One of the big sticking points for her is NFP. She would like me to use our old method of birth control (withdraw). I’ve made it quite clear that I morally object to that and that I will not partake in the marital act if we aren’t going to be open to life…
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So as we stand, you’d be delighted to have sex with your wife, but she insists that you agree beforehand to “withdraw” toward the end. You’ve said you won’t give that undertaking. So - where we are - is that your wife is declining to have sex with you.

If your wife requires that sex be “contracepted”, it seems to me she ought to place that burden on herself, not on you. As LongingSoul points out, you’re not obligated to refuse sex because she “contracepts”.

But be gentle with your wife. As another poster remarked, you have changed the rules, not she.
 
You have a new baby, and 3 other children. You are a new convert. You are trying to make big decisions about whether your wife will go back to work or not.

NFP is very important, but more important is having a good marriage. These are big changes my friend. I would advise you to sit down with your wife and ask her what you can do for her. How you can help support her better, what you can do to be a better husband.I would tell her that you’re not able to withdraw because of your religious beliefs, but if she really wants to have sex, then she can take care of the birth control.

I would jot down 3 or 4 things that she tells you and then follow through with them. After you have been faithful to serve and support her for a couple of months, Bring up NFP again. Her cycle may have returned, but if not she will be a lot more open to NFP. I can almost guarantee it.
 
Update: I met with a priest yesterday for confession as well as a discussion on my marriage and NFP. I’ve iterated to him as well as my wife that I no longer feel comfortable with using withdraw. To me it is no different than masturbation if I’m only doing it for a singular pleasurable act that comes and goes in an instant then what is the purpose. He basically told me that I should “pull back” meaning I should continue to withdraw.

Why would a priest after I tell him my feelings on the matter tell me to continue to withdraw and sin?

Maybe I’m being to much of a zealot but knowledge is power and burden at the same time.
 
agentlank said:
Update: I met with a priest yesterday for confession as well as a discussion on my marriage and NFP. I’ve iterated to him as well as my wife that I no longer feel comfortable with using withdraw. To me it is no different than masturbation if I’m only doing it for a singular pleasurable act that comes and goes in an instant then what is the purpose. He basically told me that I should “pull back” meaning I should continue to withdraw.

Why would a priest after I tell him my feelings on the matter tell me to continue to withdraw and sin?

Maybe I’m being to much of a zealot but knowledge is power and burden at the same time.
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What was his reasoning that led to that advice/conclusion?
 
The only thing I really recall that could be the reason was, “sexual intimacy between husband and wife is important”.

I just feel like it is completely negating or washing over my feelings and conscious about it all. Am all I am to my wife is a piece of meat? I mean what if something were to happen to me that we couldn’t have sex at all ever again, would she still want to be with me?

I am a male and do enjoy sex with my wife but if neither of us are open to life why should the burden (sin) of birth control be put on me?

The priest at one point said something along the lines that in biblical times “spilling your seed” was different than it is now. As we now know that it takes two to make a baby. He was basically saying the church father’s and the authors of the bible had a limited understanding of what it took to make life. However I’ve read Humanae Vitae and know that it speaks of withdraw and that was last century when we knew what it takes to make life.

I’m just confused, depressed, and tired of the whole thing. Thank you to all that have prayed and given advice.
 
agentlank said:
Some say I shouldn’t withhold, others say I should propose that she uses BC. If the Church is what She says She is and I’m not supposed to use BC and we are not open to life then I’m supposed to abstain. At least that is my understanding.

Some will get on here and say that I should just cave and not withhold either, but then I’m the biggest hypocrite imaginable and I’d be purposely turning away from God every time we engaged in the marital act.

All of these NFP classes and suggestions are great, but that requires my wife to be somewhat interested. She already thinks it is ridiculous to buy a $200 fertility monitor. I’m at a loss and really struggling with what God wants me to do.

Thank you for all the replies.
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Has your wife considered taking the role of contracepting upon herself? Did thd priest explain that contraception is for you wrong without exception, but that you may still have relations if your wife contracepts?

If the priest advocated that “in the circumstances” you should keep contracepting, he is opposed to his Church, for the Church says that contracepting is wrong in all circumstances.
 
Unfortunately I think that is what he was saying…“I should contracept and we can try NFP” and if it doens’t work then no big deal.

I dunno I’m rather jaded by it all, as I’m on fire about the church and want to prescribe to everything it holds to be true and live it all to the best of my ability and I have my priest as well as people on here telling me otherwise.
 
So you changed faith to something your wife never agreed to be, seemingly somewhat quickly.

You have 4 kids, on of which is an infant.

Your wife is post partum, which is a difficult time for any woman.

You have taken your new faith very zealously and are demanding she participate in it through NFP, which she doesn’t want to do and doesn’t believe in.

Have you thought about what it feels like to be her. If she had done this to you would you be upset with her??? Sheesh…as the non catholic spouse in a similar situation…I completely sympathize with your wife, and you need to take a step back and realize what you have done to your marriage. It’s great that you have found your faith, but you have also irrevocably altered the terms of your marriage and yet you expect your wife to be fine and just go along with it…pretty selfish of you don’t you think.

Perhaps instead of sitting around moping about how you can’t have sex, you should think about ways to show your wife you still love her. Because I’ll bet you $100.00 that she is questioning that right now. Even if she hasn’t voiced it…she is thinking it. She’s probably debating whether the Catholic Church or your family is more important to you.

It is incumbent on YOU to make your transition to a new faith easy on your family not on them to make it easy on you. period.

Also I know someone above recommended you hope she follows you. I would caution against this as it puts HUGE pressure on her…which most likely will drive her away from Catholicism and you. It also set you up to be ultimately disappointed when if it doesn’t happen.

Anyway, NFP is the least of your worries…you need to address what this change means for your family first before you focus on sex.
 
agentlank said:
Unfortunately I think that is what he was saying…“I should contracept and we can try NFP” and if it doens’t work then no big deal.

I dunno I’m rather jaded by it all, as I’m on fire about the church and want to prescribe to everything it holds to be true and live it all to the best of my ability and I have my priest as well as people on here telling me otherwise.
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Perhaps a priest who conforms to his Church would serve you better?

You didn’t really answer the questions I raised.
 
Rau said:
Has your wife considered taking the role of contracepting upon herself? Did thd priest explain that contraception is for you wrong without exception, but that you may still have relations if your wife contracepts?

If the priest advocated that “in the circumstances” you should keep contracepting, he is opposed to his Church, for the Church says that contracepting is wrong in all circumstances.
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Sorry I wasn’t trying to avoid the questions. I hope below answers them.

No my wife as not and doesn’t appear that she will consider taking the role of contracepting on herself.

The priest seemed to be rather liberal on the topic, he didn’t explain that particular point but I’ve read and understand that to be true, that as long as I notify her that I’m against it she still can. When I’ve mentioned this to my wife she thought it was a cop out so to speak and said that “well you aren’t taking it very seriously if you are ok if I contracept but you can’t”.
 
agentlank said:
Sorry I wasn’t trying to avoid the questions. I hope below answers them.

No my wife as not and doesn’t appear that she will consider taking the role of contracepting on herself.

The priest seemed to be rather liberal on the topic, he didn’t explain that particular point but I’ve read and understand that to be true, that as long as I notify her that I’m against it she still can. When I’ve mentioned this to my wife she thought it was a cop out so to speak and said that “well you aren’t taking it very seriously if you are ok if I contracept but you can’t”.
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You need not be reminding your wife at every turn. You need to be gentle. She knows your wishes, but is her own person and you love her unconditionally. What more could she ask of you?
 
agentlank said:
He basically told me that I should “pull back” meaning I should continue to withdraw.
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To give the priest the benefit of the doubt, are you sure that’s what he meant by “pull back”? Could he have meant it in a different fashion, perhaps as in, “pull back from the situation, reevaluate how you’re approaching your wife…” that sort of thing? Step back, think about what the church does and doesn’t require of you, etc? You’re not obligated to refrain from sexual relations if it’s your wife who contracepts; could that have been what he meant?

If, sadly, you believe this priest to have actually been advising you to continue using withdrawal, you should realize that he is not teaching in conformity with Christ’s Church and I would suggest praying for him and then finding a more orthodox priest.
 
agentlank said:
When I’ve mentioned this to my wife she thought it was a cop out so to speak and said that “well you aren’t taking it very seriously if you are ok if I contracept but you can’t”.
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To which you could gently reply once: “I’m not okay with you contracepting. I think it’s wrong for either of us to do it. I would like you to choose not to contracept. But whereas I know for certain that it would be a sin for me to contracept, I recognize that you have to come to that conclusion on your own and for yourself, and I won’t deny you marital relations while you work that out with God.”
 
That is a very eloquent way to put it and I’m sure I fell far short of that when it was brought up. I’ll keep that in mind the next time the conversation comes up.

I agree with you as well and I’d like to give the priest the benefit of the doubt and I really like him, however I’m almost certain that is what he was saying. He said it a couple of times in the same manner indicating he wasn’t saying that I should just ease up on talking about it.
 
nodito said:
To which you could gently reply once: “I’m not okay with you contracepting. I think it’s wrong for either of us to do it. I would like you to choose not to contracept. But whereas I know for certain that it would be a sin for me to contracept, I recognize that you have to come to that conclusion on your own and for yourself, and I won’t deny you marital relations while you work that out with God.”
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That’s still a cop out. It’s also not elegant. It’s basically saying I think you are a sinner and going to hell, but hey that’s on you, let get busy.

SERIOUSLY, if she used that phrase on you, you would be insulted and hurt.

Again YOU changed the game on her, she didn’t do anything. She is YOUR WIFE and the mother of your children and you are less concerned about how your change is making her life hard, at a time when her life is pretty hard already, than you are about how to force her to do NFP so you can resume marital relations and feel good about it.

Sex and NFP is not what is wrong with your marriage here, it’s your decision to change the game, you need to step back and deal with that with her first.

I notice you have not addressed ANY of the posts that mention your marriage as a whole and how your conversion is affecting it…only the ones that deal with how to get her on the NFP bandwagon and back to having sex with you.
 
nodito said:
To which you could gently reply once: “I’m not okay with you contracepting. I think it’s wrong for either of us to do it. I would like you to choose not to contracept. But whereas I know for certain that it would be a sin for me to contracept, I recognize that you have to come to that conclusion on your own and for yourself, and I won’t deny you marital relations while you work that out with God.”
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That’s pretty good.

I’d add something like, “Each of us needs to follow our conscience.”
 
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