Without a God, Are we just animals?

[AgnosTheist]

You don’t have to get insulting on these fora – that doesn’t help the discussion along at all, it just antagonizes people.

If God exists, he knows I’m not trying to insult anyone.

You don’t seem to see that fundamentally I agree with you. Humans evolve, and their cultures and religious understanding along with it. I agree that the Old Testament – with its sometimes vengeful and petty God, its primitive ethics including now despicable requirements, its male-dominant female-subordinating metaphysic – the Old Testament must be read through new lenses. Do you understand what I mean?

Im sorry but this statement must have given me the wrong idea about you: "If slavery is not now acceptable to God it was never acceptable to the “Bible God.”".

I do agree that the OT has to be read with new lenses. And I know thats exactly what mainstream christianity is doing right now. Its just that some christians have forgotten what the OT is like, and then goes on to charge the non-believers with the exact same godly flaws that can be found in their beloved book.

 

[anthony022071]

The bible god is merely as fickle as the average human.

That’s not what the writers of the books of the Bible thought,so that would be your own impression.

The bible god improves as humanity does.

No,the God of the scriptures tries to improve humanity by persuading humanity to follow his commandments.

For the bible god is evidently but a reflection of frail human attributes.

A product of human superstitious beliefs.

That’s not evident to those who follow the commandments.

The Jewish prophets mocked the gods and superstitions of the surrounding nations.

You dont understand that primitive human understandings can be immediately corrected. Evidence for this is the fairly quick modernization of primitive pacific islanders beginning in the 19th century. In just 200 years their minds evolved from the dark ages into modernity.

Modernity is not an improvement over whatever you might mean by the dark ages. If they did improve morally,it is due to the fact that they were taught by Christian Europeans,whose own pagan ancestors were morally improved by the Catholic Church.

The bible had thousands of years, and it still failed to do better.

The Bible doesn’t do its own preaching;the Catholic Church preaches the commandments of God and those who follow the commandments are improved.

Dont underestimate the human mind, just for the sake of the backward bible.

Are the commandments recorded in the scriptures backward?

 

[justinthemartyr]

and so we see, without God, we are just animals and are no different than any animal.

Thank God for God!

 

[Valke2]

No it doesn’t. Consensus does not change the moral quality of an act. Was slavery once actually morally acceptable and now it is not? No, it was always a moral error even though the majority of people accepted it. If something is wrong then it is wrong. What people think is irrelevant of it.

And yet if you believe the Bible is GOd’s word, slavery was once permissible. Whether something is moral or not is almost not relevant if it is permissible.

 

[Valke2]

The hermeneutical task of theology is to reinterpret the faith for each generation of believers. If human sacrifice was ever wrong it was always wrong, but earlier humans simply did not understand that. As our species evolves, our conception of what we call “God” develops as well, and along with it, our conception of right and wrong. I doubt we’ll ever stop evolving, and our evolution toward a universal ethic will not stop either.

This makes sense. But in the end, are we really saying different things. If we continue to evolve toward a universal ethic, we have to accept the fact that we don’t know what that universal ethic is. The result is the same whether there exists a universal ethic or not. And that is our concept of what is morally right and morally wrong is subject to change over time.

 

[drpmjhess]

This makes sense. But in the end, are we really saying different things. If we continue to evolve toward a universal ethic, we have to accept the fact that we don’t know what that universal ethic is. The result is the same whether there exists a universal ethic or not. And that is our concept of what is morally right and morally wrong is subject to change over time.

Every culture in every epoch thinks it knows the universal ethic, or at least, some people think they know. Some Assyrians in the 8th century BCE thought it ethically acceptable to impale conquered men on stakes in front of their wives and children. Some Hebrews (e.g. Lot) thought it acceptable to turn their daughters over to be raped by enraged mobs (Genesis 19:8).

But in many cultures there are prophets who challenge the existing concept of what is ethically right. The Hebrew prophets from the tenth to the seventh centuries were constantly challenging Israel to broaden its ethical horizon. Jesus’ very life was a challenge to existing concepts of law and right and morality. Paul challenged some things but accepted others. Human cultural evolution is a constant dance, that will probably never end. And we will probably always be fighting paradoxes, such as an ethic that rightfully shows concern for the environment, while at the same time permitting partial birth abortion.

 

[Laurent_LUG]

it is not the belief in God that makes life useful or purposeful,

it is the existence of God which does, then the belief follows. without the existence of God, we would be no different than animals, with no purpose, no law, no anything except instincts and then death. buh bye.
Skavau;3322672:

And yet, if God does not exist - your entirely argument is redundant.
justinthemartyr;3322829:

Skavau said:

“And yet, if God does not exist - your entirely argument is redundant”

My response:

And as soon as you can give me evidence of the non existence of God, I will grant you that statement.

Nature itself proves Intelligent design, there is no need for religion to do this.

What defines us from animals? Have you seen an animal worship God, start a business or arrest those who killed another of their kind and place them on trial? Where else does justice come from, and why are our laws based on God’s laws?

You have far more answering to do than i.

after all, before I came to know or trust God, I was an addict, alcoholic, homosexual and thief.

the moment I asked Jesus Christ for forgiveness and to be Lord of my life, those desires went away in the blink of an eye and my whole moral psyche reversed. Everything that once drove me was also reversed.

It was very evident to me at that moment, that those things which had once enslaved me, that nothing else could take away, were then washed away instantly by the power of an all loving Creator.

When you find animals that have courts of justice, let me know.

peace, Justin

And as soon as you can give me evidence of the non existence of God, I will grant you that statement.

Can you prove the existance ??
The person who says/pretends it exists ,
well give us proof , and we will tell you ,
you are right !!
As long there is no proof of existance ,
to me , it’s nothing more than a mankinds’fairy tail !!
And so , in case you can’t find any proof
of existance , what you gonna do about ??

You know , actually , I tell or say ,
let live and die everyones’his/her way !!
You believe in the story , fine !!
You wanna believe in the story , fine !!
You don’t believe in the story , fine !!
You don’t wanna believe in the story , fine !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), february 24, 2008

 

[justinthemartyr]

Can you prove the existance ??
The person who says/pretends it exists ,
well give us proof , and we will tell you ,
you are right !!
As long there is no proof of existance ,
to me , it’s nothing more than a mankinds’fairy tail !!
And so , in case you can’t find any proof
of existance , what you gonna do about ??

You know , actually , I tell or say ,
let live and die everyones’his/her way !!
You believe in the story , fine !!
You wanna believe in the story , fine !!
You don’t believe in the story , fine !!
You don’t wanna believe in the story , fine !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), february 24, 2008

It is apparent to me and the vast majority of the world in every recorded age that God exists.

It is you on the other hand that are the minority and must therefore prove the non existence of God.

Majority rules on this one. sorry.

Oh, and the fact that the moment i asked Christ into my life, the desire for homosexuality, drinking and drugging and stealing left me, in the blink of an eye, something that human nature could not remove from me no matter how hard I tried.

 

[Laurent_LUG]

It is you on the other hand that are the minority and must therefore prove the non existence.

A murder case:
The accused keeps hold on saying he/she didn’t do it … !!
The accused has to proof there is no dead body … ,
but there are eyewitnesses (in first line) and even cam proof !!
OK , This is completely undeniable , indisputable proof !!
(!! Unless someone has messed with the video !!)

Majority rules on this one. sorry.

I fully disagree (logical) !!

Oh, and the fact that the moment i asked Christ into my life, the desire for homosexuality, drinking and drugging and stealing left me, in the blink of an eye, something that human nature could not remove from me no matter how hard I tried.

As a non (religion) believer ,
even i do not , steal , use drugs , drink , etc … !!
I have no desire for such things !!

The reason i’m not gay , simply ,
that’s something you’re feeling inside !!
Women will notice this , and yes , also men !!

btw: There was a guy in my class , while we were travelling with all the last year’s students ,
everyday his bed was made a mess , his clothes were thrown into the garbage-can !!
A year after school I finished school , I’ve heard why !!
He was gay !!
Another guy I know (a cousin) ,
they put him in a container filled with garbage !!
Yes , he was gay to !!
Well , I don’t get it !! Why ?? What have they done wrong ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), august 21, 2008