Without a God, Are we just animals?

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justinthemartyr

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statement

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in Physics

Response

Another person who is so arrogant and so filled with their own magnificence that they cannot humble themselves to accept simple truth. Without God, there is no good and no evil. Without God, we are all merely animals operating according to our pre-programmed natures. There is no morality other than the morality of survival of the fittest. So, there is no “good” to do without God, and there is no “evil” to be done. When one animal kills or hurts another animal, does anyone claim it is immoral, or evil? No. There is no morality among animals, and without God, we are just animals.

This was taken from John Martignoni and www.biblechristiansociety.com

peace, Justin
 
Hi Justin I saw that this morning too! 😃 I think John is correct that without God there is no morality. But I think without God, there are no animals period. 😃
 
justinthemartyr said:
statement

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in Physics
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Ignoring the slack presentation of the above, Steven Weinberg is in many ways correct. Although I would not at all say that ‘Religio n is an insult to human dignity’.
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justinthemartyr:
Response

Another person who is so arrogant and so filled with their own magnificence that they cannot humble themselves to accept simple truth.
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How do you respond to what you assert to be arrogance and delusions of grandeur? You do exactly the same by arrogantly assuming the mentality of an individual from a single assertion. There’s an incredible irony in that you are what you appear to strive against.

To put it bluntly, you do not know Steven Weinberg. You likely only know the comment he has made. You do not know what he thinks, how he acts and who he is. It is arrogant to think that you do. It is this sort of dismissive ad hominem that is tearing apart positive comparison of belief. In fact, you don’t seem to be able to recognise disbelief since you assume that he is concealing what he already knows to be the truth.

Shame on you.
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justinthemartyr:
Without God, there is no good and no evil.
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First you’re going to have define what good and evil is to make that assumption. If by ‘good’ you mean ‘God’s word’ and if by ‘evil’ you mean ‘Contrary to God’s Word’ then I am inclined to agree with you. It is however, not a very good, nor objective, nor reasonable definition of morality and it is frankly a potentially dangerous definition of morality.
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justinthemartyr:
Without God, we are all merely animals operating according to our pre-programmed natures. There is no morality other than the morality of survival of the fittest.
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Evolution explains what is the case. It does not dictate what ought the case. You are committing the naturalistic fallacy of mixing up a fact-based statement with a value-based statement. This is excusable however, as I suspect your mistake is projection.

You also make the assumption of assuming that sans God, evolution is true. This is not ever necessarily the case.
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justinthemartyr:
So, there is no “good” to do without God, and there is no “evil” to be done. When one animal kills or hurts another animal, does anyone claim it is immoral, or evil? No. There is no morality among animals, and without God, we are just animals.
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And with God we are just animals.
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justinthemartyr:
peace, Justin
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Peace.
 
The point is mute. God lives. Believe it or not. I feel sorry for those that have nothing to look forward to after this life has ended.

I will pray for them and hope before they breathe their last breath, they ask for mercy. The “choice” is theirs.
 
That’s what it means to take the Mark of the Beast without God, you are like an animal living for your own gut, not God.
 
Be him (Christ) all things were made and in him all things hold together.

Without God nothing.
 
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Without a God we are still more than just animals.
justinthemartyr said:
Without God, there is no good and no evil. Without God, we are all merely animals operating according to our pre-programmed natures. There is no morality other than the morality of survival of the fittest. So, there is no “good” to do without God, and there is no “evil” to be done. When one animal kills or hurts another animal, does anyone claim it is immoral, or evil? No. There is no morality among animals, and without God, we are just animals.
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Thats a very low opinion of humanity. :rolleyes:
 
It is too bad that God almost always speaks to us through others.

🙂 But it is fortunate that there are MANY people whom God can speak through. 🙂
 
As much as I am a fan of John Martignoni, I disagree with the assertion that without God, there is no morality. Society needs some moral codes in place in order to survive. That said, the idea that religion is an affront to human dignity is a bunch of junk. In its pure form, Christianity protects human dignity. Some other faiths do as well, though some do not.

I find it almost laughable to say that good people would only do good things and that only evil people would do evil without religion.

Without God, we are still more than animals, because we can contemplate the eternal. By accepting that there is a God, our abilities grow beyond that.
 
ralphinal said:
Without God, we are still more than animals, because we can contemplate the eternal. By accepting that there is a God, our abilities grow beyond that.
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Without God you die like an animal.

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Without God you die like an animal.

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
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Not the question at hand. The question is without God, is there anything that makes us special?

As far as this goes, FoA, why do you think people don’t beleive in God? You’ve posted before that there is no free will, so that means God made people not beleive in Him, right?
 
there is nothing that makes us special without God. there would be no law of any sort, and therefore no justice system, just as we see in nature.

simple really.

God is evident in the eternal soul of human beings in that we have a justice system, of which animals cannot.
 
justinthemartyr said:
there is nothing that makes us special without God. there would be no law of any sort, and therefore no justice system, just as we see in nature.

simple really.

God is evident in the eternal soul of human beings in that we have a justice system, of which animals cannot.
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So your position is that without God, we would have no society, no language, no structure at all? What about polytheistic societies? Or those with different faith structures? Do they have “God?”
 
ralphinal said:
Not the question at hand. The question is without God, is there anything that makes us special?

As far as this goes, FoA, why do you think people don’t beleive in God? You’ve posted before that there is no free will, so that means God made people not beleive in Him, right?
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What? The topic is without God are we like animals, it’s exactly the question. God allows the force of Satan to cause unbelief, and He allows the force of His word to cause belief.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
What? The topic is without God are we like animals, it’s exactly the question. God allows the force of Satan to cause unbelief, and He allows the force of His word to cause belief.
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Animals have no choice. They “know” that there is a God, they “believe” in God. Humans can choose to believe or not to. This is free will at its greatest. If you say that there is no free will, you say that God created a human that would deny him NO MATTER WHAT. The lack of free will also shows a God that willingly creates people to go to hell NO MATTER WHAT they do or beleive. We can end this part, if you want and go back to the OP.

Are we different than animals? Yes. DId God create us different? Yes. If we do not believe in God, are we Different? Yes. If there was no God, are we different? Yes. If there was no God, would there still be laws? My position is yes, or else there would be no society.
 
ralphinal said:
As much as I am a fan of John Martignoni, I disagree with the assertion that without God, there is no morality.
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I think what John is saying is that things are only right or wrong ultimately only according to God. If we are just a bunch of biological material, then there is no “right” or “wrong”. It is just biological matter interacting.
 
MarcoPolo said:
I think what John is saying is that things are only right or wrong ultimately only according to God. If we are just a bunch of biological material, then there is no “right” or “wrong”. It is just biological matter interacting.
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Perhaps, but in reading the statement in the frame of human history, laws would have to be created to have society. No way around that. The creation of laws leads to an understanding of morality, however simplistic it may be.

Do not misunderstand me, there are serious flaws with an atheistic moral code, such as relativism. It does not mean that there is no such thing as one.

I do have an issue with the religion statement in the first place. Good people will still do the occasional evil without religion to define it as such. I always laugh when people who deny God also deny that religion has anything good or positive to say. Typical
 
ralphinal said:
Animals have no choice. They “know” that there is a God, they “believe” in God. Humans can choose to believe or not to. This is free will at its greatest. If you say that there is no free will, you say that God created a human that would deny him NO MATTER WHAT. The lack of free will also shows a God that willingly creates people to go to hell NO MATTER WHAT they do or beleive. We can end this part, if you want and go back to the OP.
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Jesus said he followed God’s will not his own. Your own will is actually works and Satan, still an illusion of free will.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
ralphinal said:
Are we different than animals? Yes. DId God create us different? Yes. If we do not believe in God, are we Different? Yes. If there was no God, are we different? Yes. If there was no God, would there still be laws? My position is yes, or else there would be no society.
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We are only different than animals because we are made in the likeness of God, without God we are in the likeness of animals.
 
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