Without a God, Are we just animals?

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šŸ™‚ But it is fortunate that there are MANY people whom God can speak through. šŸ™‚
Like the Prophet Mohammad? 😃

Thats the point. People cant be trusted when it comes to religious athority. So excuse me, I’d like to hear it from God himself. Thank you. šŸ‘
 
Jesus said he followed God’s will not his own. Your own will is actually works and Satan, still an illusion of free will.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
This is a misapplied quote. It does not mean that I have no choice in life. It means that the law will not save me, only grace through faith. I have to choose to act upon that grace.
We are only different than animals because we are made in the likeness of God, without God we are in the likeness of animals.
By this concept, without God, we would not be, and neither would animals.
 
We are only different than animals because we are made in the likeness of God, without God we are in the likeness of animals.
By ā€œLikenessā€ you are referring to what aspect?

By how we look?
By how we think?
By how we behave?
 
I don’t think that without God were just animals. If you want proof, just take a look at those who act like animals because of God (ie: Islamist terrorists)
 
I don’t think that without God were just animals. If you want proof, just take a look at those who act like animals because of God (ie: Islamist terrorists)
And those who act like animals under the shelter of God (ie: perverts in the catholic clergy, greedy protestant televangelists)
 
raphinal:
Do not misunderstand me, there are serious flaws with an atheistic moral code, such as relativism. It does not mean that there is no such thing as one.
Actually you make a common mistake.

There is no such thing as an Atheistic moral code. Whilst Atheists do generally have a sense of right or wrong, it is different from every Atheist because Atheism is not at all an ethical position and it implies no ethical standards.

Moreover, what flaws as relativism are you speaking of? How do you define objective?
 
I must hand it to you AT, you take some off the wall subjects that insult and degrade a belief in God and bring it down to the level of a gutter rat and yet get so many people arguing with you against these ā€œwhat ifs?ā€ that I can hardly believe my eyes. You must be having a wonderful time sitting back and watching this develop before you. I am truly amazed at the responses you get. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

I will say my peace before leaving this thread with just a few words. God lives. God loves all. We were made in the image of God. God created all you see out of nothing. The Son of God was made flesh. He was crucified, died, and was buried. His Resurrection is the basis of our faith. No Resurrection, no faith. Without His rising from the dead, there would be no christian faith. It would all be in vain. Believe in the Truth or not. It is a matter of choice. Arguing over ā€œwhat ifs,ā€ is simply a waste of time and energy. Walk in the light and walk by faith. Your choice.
 
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tmango:
I will say my peace before leaving this thread with just a few words. God lives. God loves all. We were made in the image of God. God created all you see out of nothing. The Son of God was made flesh. He was crucified, died, and was buried. His Resurrection is the basis of our faith. No Resurrection, no faith. Without His rising from the dead, there would be no christian faith. It would all be in vain. Believe in the Truth or not. It is a matter of choice. Arguing over ā€œwhat ifs,ā€ is simply a waste of time and energy. Walk in the light and walk by faith. Your choice.
So why are you on sub forum which invites discussion about ā€˜what if’? Certainly not to actually discuss.
 
This is a misapplied quote. It does not mean that I have no choice in life. It means that the law will not save me, only grace through faith. I have to choose to act upon that grace.

By this concept, without God, we would not be, and neither would animals.
You don’t get faith from yourself but from God, it is a gift.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly,** according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith**.

Without God we are like animals living for carnal rewards like food, sex, pride over a job well done. With God we are in the likeness of God doing God’s will by God and for God, because God wills that it be done.
 
By ā€œLikenessā€ you are referring to what aspect?

By how we look?
By how we think?
By how we behave?
God’s will.

You can do ā€œgoodā€ things without God because it makes you feel good and you get joy from seeing others pleased by what you do, but those are carnal rewards like an animal performing tricks for a treat.
 
The point is mute. God lives. Believe it or not. I feel sorry for those that have nothing to look forward to after this life has ended.

I will pray for them and hope before they breathe their last breath, they ask for mercy. The ā€œchoiceā€ is theirs.
Most of us would be just fine with mercy, we simply don’t think it’s out there. If, when I die, I meet Jesus and he tells me ā€˜yeah, you didn’t quite get it, but I’m here, I love you, and I want to hang out with you’ I’d jump on it.

Anyway, yeah, we’re animals, with or without God. The difference is we’re social animals, and are pretty good at communicating and working together. And most of us are generally intelligent enough to realize that working together is good for everyone.

But we’re still animalia/chordata/mammalia/primate/homindae/homo sapiens sapiens. Animals. Nothing to be ashamed of. Just that we’re capable of rattling off taxonomy is something to gloat over the protista about šŸ™‚
 
ā€œThat is their glory. Excluding humanity, they are yet human themselves.ā€ - C.S. Lewis

Without God, nothing can be justified. For instance, you could not justify unjustifiability. (Word?) In fact, through God, there is reason. The reason anyone can be good is because of God, whether or not they would give credit to Him.

Another C.S. Lewis quote, paraphrased. ā€œHe has done good, and so it is done in my name. Though the other has said this is done in my name, it is actually for Tisroc that it is done.ā€ -Aslan speaking to the children, Tisroc being the god of death or something like that

But what it’s saying is, good is absolute or not at all. Morality is absolute or not at all. And if morality is not absolute, then there is no real morality worth mentioning. And without morality, humans would be just animals. To take away God would be to remove your own argument.
 
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Without a God we are still more than just animals.

Thats a very low opinion of humanity. :rolleyes:

1. We do not need God to live happy & useful lives, or to be moral.​

Believing fervently in God is entirely compatible with making life a hell on earth for others: ā€œof all bad men, religious bad men are the worstā€, as C. S. Lewis writes somewhere.
  1. To suggest God has to be believed in for the individual or society to function well, is a subtle form of instrumentalism - it is a way of using God for our own ends. And that is to debase faith in God. God is useless - that is implied in the very idea of loving God:) God is not be used, at all - that is not why God Is. God has no justification whatever. And it follows from the uselessness of God that faith is useless - which why we should have it.
 
it is not the belief in God that makes life useful or purposeful,

it is the existence of God which does, then the belief follows. without the existence of God, we would be no different than animals, with no purpose, no law, no anything except instincts and then death. buh bye.
 
it is not the belief in God that makes life useful or purposeful,

it is the existence of God which does, then the belief follows. without the existence of God, we would be no different than animals, with no purpose, no law, no anything except instincts and then death. buh bye.
And yet, if God does not exist - your entirely argument is redundant.
 
Skavau said:

ā€œAnd yet, if God does not exist - your entirely argument is redundantā€

My response:

And as soon as you can give me evidence of the non existence of God, I will grant you that statement.

Nature itself proves Intelligent design, there is no need for religion to do this.

What defines us from animals? Have you seen an animal worship God, start a business or arrest those who killed another of their kind and place them on trial? Where else does justice come from, and why are our laws based on God’s laws?

You have far more answering to do than i.

after all, before I came to know or trust God, I was an addict, alcoholic, homosexual and thief.

the moment I asked Jesus Christ for forgiveness and to be Lord of my life, those desires went away in the blink of an eye and my whole moral psyche reversed. Everything that once drove me was also reversed.

It was very evident to me at that moment, that those things which had once enslaved me, that nothing else could take away, were then washed away instantly by the power of an all loving Creator.

When you find animals that have courts of justice, let me know.

peace, Justin
 
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justinthemartyr:
And as soon as you can give me evidence of the non existence of God, I will grant you that statement.
You have a strange understanding of what is and what is not logical. Just because a concept is unfalsifiable does not mean it is reasonable to believe in. You cannot disprove the existence of Zeus, Thor or Odin and yet for some reason you do not hold them to the same level as you do God. You do not believe in the celestial teapot orbiting Jupiter and yet it is on the same level of evidence as God.

A claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. It is ultimately the Theists claim also that God exists, and ultimately the burden of ā€˜evidence’ is upon Theists.
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justinthemartyr:
Nature itself proves Intelligent design, there is no need for religion to do this.
How does nature ā€˜prove’ intelligent design?
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justinthemartyr:
What defines us from animals? Have you seen an animal worship God, start a business or arrest those who killed another of their kind and place them on trial? Where else does justice come from, and why are our laws based on God’s laws?
We are very much different than all other animals because of our intellect. This however does not make us any less of an animal biologically.

Moreover, your argument makes no sense. ā€˜Justice’ is an entirely human term and our laws are not based on ā€˜God’s Law’.
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justinthemartyr:
after all, before I came to know or trust God, I was an addict, alcoholic, homosexual and thief.
That line is the third cliche I have seen in a day. Moreover, what you were has nothing to do with whether what you believe is actually true.
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justinthemartyr:
the moment I asked Jesus Christ for forgiveness and to be Lord of my life, those desires went away in the blink of an eye and my whole moral psyche reversed. Everything that once drove me was also reversed.
So what? This is mere testimony. I could find testimonies from Muslims that equal yours.
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justinthemartyr:
It was very evident to me at that moment, that those things which had once enslaved me, that nothing else could take away, were then washed away instantly by the power of an all loving Creator.
Then you are convinced by things that actually have nothing to do with the evidence of God.
 
Actually you make a common mistake.

There is no such thing as an Atheistic moral code. Whilst **Atheists do generally have a sense of right or wrong, it is different from every Atheist **because Atheism is not at all an ethical position and it implies no ethical standards.

Moreover, what flaws as relativism are you speaking of? How do you define objective?
That is relativism.

I know that I should not say that atheists can be moral. I should say that they can be ethical or even honest and good. I simply prefer the term moral.

What is objective? Well, cold blooded murder is always wrong. Adultry is always wrong. Child molestation is always wrong. Why? Because these harm others when they have no chance to defend themselves. Harming someone who cannot defend themselves is always wrong, even if that harm is not bodily.
 
That is relativism.
Admitting that people can have different moral codes is not relative in the slightest: it’s simply true.

An atheist can have an objective moral code just as much as a theist may (although it cannot, for obvious reasons, be based on the idea of an active moral arbiter); however, such a code is not necessarily common between two atheists.
 
You have a strange understanding of what is and what is not logical. Just because a concept is unfalsifiable does not mean it is reasonable to believe in. You cannot disprove the existence of Zeus, Thor or Odin and yet for some reason you do not hold them to the same level as you do God. You do not believe in the celestial teapot orbiting Jupiter and yet it is on the same level of evidence as God.

A claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. It is ultimately the Theists claim also that God exists, and ultimately the burden of ā€˜evidence’ is upon Theists.

How does nature ā€˜prove’ intelligent design?

We are very much different than all other animals because of our intellect. This however does not make us any less of an animal biologically.

Moreover, your argument makes no sense. ā€˜Justice’ is an entirely human term and our laws are not based on ā€˜God’s Law’.

That line is the third cliche I have seen in a day. Moreover, what you were has nothing to do with whether what you believe is actually true.

So what? This is mere testimony. I could find testimonies from Muslims that equal yours.

Then you are convinced by things that actually have nothing to do with the evidence of God.
Show me direct evidence of Zeus or Thor, and how many people are worshipping them as we speak? Are 3/4 of humanity worshipping them? what is your evidence for them? where is the historical record of their actual existence as we have thorough evidence of Jesus crist and his preannounced prophecies which he fulfilled over 350 of in about 33 years? His preannouncement is the only evidence I need, no one else preannounced their entire life,death, resurrection and ascension into heaven over 1000 years before it occurred. I see no evidence of your claims whatsoever.

As far as nature, the natural law is inelligent design in itself. name me one thing in nature that is not intelligently designed? I can’t think of one.

Less of an animal biologically? Who said anything about the biological aspect? The whole debate is concerning the intellect and the ability to make choices. Animals cannot make choices of and by themselves, they only work on instinct. we on the other hand can perform evil, plotting mass murder, rape, terrorism and build or buy the equipment necessary to plan and execute it. The question is, without God, are we(humans) just animals? We are the only creature on earth that can acknowledge God and worship God, and get very good results doing so. This is the main difference between human beings and animals. We have reign over the whole earth and everything in it(life). This is not merely some scriptural quote, it is a fact which holds to the biblical quote.

YES justice IS a human term, not practiced by animals without the eternal soul with morality God gave us. That is the point.
Name for me a basic law, which at it’s root is not based on the laws of God. I am not talking about the laws which have been changed since by humans to disregard human life, such as Roe vs Wade.

What do muslims have to do with this situation? The difference between all religions and belief systems claiming to be of God, is that only one Person ever preannounced Himself before he was ever born. It was not Muhammed, so that is irrelevent to this subject matter.

Yes, my experience does have a lot to do with what is actually true. My experience is not based on feeling, on drugs, on anything but the fact that the only thing that changed in my actions and life, is that I acknowledged Jesus Christ, the preannounced messiah, to be my Lord and Saviour, and the overwhleming desire to drink, drug, steal and be homosexual since a very young age, disappeared. This is found to be the case for multiple billions of people over the ages, they acknowledge god and ask him into their lives to cooperate with His will, and their lives change dramatically from within.

peace, justin
 
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