Witness to Domestic Violence

[kevin0116]

I recently witnessed a domestic violence situation on the street. My entire body and soul reached out to try to stop it, but something held me back. That something was that I didn’t know what to do or say. How are we, as Catholics called to stand up for those in need, to handle a violent situation, knowing that we are not to be violent ourselves? What should we do in situations like this, other than to pray for those involved? How can we stop it then and there?

 

[Island_Oak]

As much as I may hate to say it, you probably did the wise thing. It is all too frequent these days to have a minor traffic incident, a cut in line, etc., erupt into violence, which can be fatal for innocent bystanders. If violence is already evident–you are really in danger to intervene even if you’re built like Arnold Schwarzenegger. However, anyone armed with a cell phone could/should report such an incident and the location from a safe distance to 911 or call in the license plate # if you see something on the road.

 

[kevin0116]

This is where I run into the moral dilemma, though. Regardless of the day and age, the parable of the Good Samaritan stands. The concept of being persecuted for Christ as good and holy is ever present. Further, “When I was hungry, you fed me”, etc. could easily include “When I was being abused, you protected me”. I hate to use the cliche, but what would Jesus do? I know He’d do something, I lack the wisdom to know what that something is.

 

[mercygate]

kevin0116:

This is where I run into the moral dilemma, though. Regardless of the day and age, the parable of the Good Samaritan stands. The concept of being persecuted for Christ as good and holy is ever present. Further, “When I was hungry, you fed me”, etc. could easily include “When I was being abused, you protected me”. I hate to use the cliche, but what would Jesus do? I know He’d do something, I lack the wisdom to know what that something is.

This isn’t like the Good Samaritan; it involved violence. As Island Oak recommended, whipping out your cell phone – perhaps in view of the perpetrator – would have been the best thing you could do. Domestic violence causes more injuries to cops than anything else they to handle. A civilian is in no position physically to manage the rage of a stranger.

 

[kevin0116]

Don’t get me wrong, I understand the risk and I’m sure on some level, fear of injury was a motivation to keep me from action, but the following passage clearly says that being hurt for the sake Christ (for doing what is right) is the right thing to do.

Matthew 5:10-12 Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

To go further with it, Matthew 25 has a long description of doing what is right for the those in need and ends with the following.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Surely this can be extended to anyone in need, including a person abused. Maybe the “care” necessary here would have been to try to approach the woman and offer her information on how to get out of the situation. I don’t know.

I also think that the parable of the Good Samaritan does apply, because there was risk in that parable as well. The idea was that the Samaritan could have been robbed by someone waiting to ambush anyone who stopped.

Please know, I’m not trying to be argumentative. This is my first post online and I came searching an answer because I know that our Lord would call me to do something to help, not passively, but actively, for the sake of the woman I saw being abused and for the soul of the man abusing her. But of course, I would never go in trying to fight him off nor, I pray, would I fight if came to that. But what can we SAY, what would the Saints say if witness to such behavior. I truly believe that they would act, that Christ himself would act.

Thank you for the thoughts on this. I suspect I’ll be pondering it for some time and discussing it with my priest as well.

 

[mercygate]

Did you see how it came out?

 

[kevin0116]

Thankfully it ended fairly quickly, and as bad as it was, it could have been considerably worse.

I was at the gas station and the couple were crossing the street arguing. She knocked the soda he was carrying out of his hand. He raised his fist, but she walked away. He grabbed her by the hair and pulled her down with fist raised. He eventually let her go, and went back to the gas station for another soda while she waited by the car.

 

[Karin]

kevin0116:

Thankfully it ended fairly quickly, and as bad as it was, it could have been considerably worse.

I was at the gas station and the couple were crossing the street arguing. She knocked the soda he was carrying out of his hand. He raised his fist, but she walked away. He grabbed her by the hair and pulled her down with fist raised. He eventually let her go, and went back to the gas station for another soda while she waited by the car.

So what did you do since you were so disturbed by what you saw? Did you call 911 or did you ignore the situation?

 

[mercygate]

kevin0116:

Thankfully it ended fairly quickly, and as bad as it was, it could have been considerably worse.

I was at the gas station and the couple were crossing the street arguing. She knocked the soda he was carrying out of his hand. He raised his fist, but she walked away. He grabbed her by the hair and pulled her down with fist raised. He eventually let her go, and went back to the gas station for another soda while she waited by the car.

Shudder. Well, since it was over so fast, and since there were no “instruments” or weapons involved, and since it was in full public view, it seems that nothing you would have done would have changed anything at least not this time. Getting the guy’s licence plate number and calling 911 might have been a thought (all the great ideas come when it’s too late, huh?). Probably, without 14 witnesses and the “perp” in your pocket, it would have gone nowhere anyway.

The woman didn’t call for help and she waited for this jerk by the car? There’s part of your answer. She didn’t seek help and could have if she had wanted it.

Pray for them.

 

[kevin0116]

I came on here, looking for an answer to what I should do. Honestly, like I said above, I was at a loss. I knew that I should do something, but I wasn’t sure what. I honestly was so shocked by what I saw that I had no idea what to do next. Hence, my coming to find what the best response would be. I could make some excuse like, without the license plate number (which I didn’t have the sense to get) or more details, etc. the police could do nothing, and from what I understand, the police already have a difficult time prosecuting domestic violence cases even when all of the facts are in place, but the truth of the matter is, I was dumbfounded.

 

[mercygate]

kevin0116:

I came on here, looking for an answer to what I should do. Honestly, like I said above, I was at a loss. I knew that I should do something, but I wasn’t sure what. I honestly was so shocked by what I saw that I had no idea what to do next. Hence, my coming to find what the best response would be. I could make some excuse like, without the license plate number (which I didn’t have the sense to get) or more details, etc. the police could do nothing, and from what I understand, the police already have a difficult time prosecuting domestic violence cases even when all of the facts are in place, but the truth of the matter is, I was dumbfounded.

Who wouldn’t be dumbfounded? Part of the value of having discussions like this one is that you acquire a certain repertory of thought-out options to use when the next situation arises. I doubt many people would have known exactly what to do.

 

[kevin0116]

Thanks mercygate. I already feel like I’ve made too much of this or a fool of myself here for not doing something, but complaining about it anyway. I appreciate you talking it through with me. I don’t want to be complacent nor “all talk”.

Prayer is clearly the only (and of course, the best) option I have right now.

Thanks again.

 

[st_felicity]

kevin0116:

Thanks mercygate. I already feel like I’ve made too much of this or a fool of myself here for not doing something, but complaining about it anyway. I appreciate you talking it through with me. I don’t want to be complacent nor “all talk”.

Prayer is clearly the only (and of course, the best) option I have right now.

Thanks again.

Kevin–You show a sensitice conscience! That is good–and you’re right, prayer is the course you take now…

You know–maybe your role in this incedent was to come to this forum and ask this question because someone who reads this may face a situation like yours and you have given them the opportunity to think about it BEFORE they see it happen! God works so wonderfully like that!!!

…I’ve thought about it and God-forbid–should I see something like that–I’ll call 911 w/the liscence plate (as so wisely suggested) in the hope that at the VERY least–the offender (that’s my nice word for the very objectionable word that came to mind ) will know people are watching–and he’d have to think about his actions for a mili-second!

THANKS!

 

[Black_Jaque]

Oh man Kevin. I was already to jump in an say go hell-bent on stopping it.

Then I read:

I was at the gas station and the couple were crossing the street arguing. She knocked the soda he was carrying out of his hand. He raised his fist, but she walked away. He grabbed her by the hair and pulled her down with fist raised. He eventually let her go, and went back to the gas station for another soda while she waited by the car.

Ahh. I might have done just what you did. Nothing. Well, probably the best thing would have been to shout some belittling comment like “That’s no way to treat a woman!” You have an obligation to stop someone from being hurt, but getting her hair pulled?

I suspect what was going on was youre brain was being confused by the obvious contradiction between right reasoning and cultural conditioning. Right reasoning would tell you that this woman was not being hurt, and therefore you need not use a physical force that is actually worse than the force is being used against her.

On the other hand our culture is conditioning people into thinking that all violence is abusive. There is a conditioning that all violence is horrible, no distinguishing between a punch and a gunshot. We don’t even distinguish between a child using his fingers as a gun and a kid bringing a real gun to school - they’re all treated the same.

So you saw a woman get handled way more roughly than is decent. You did what your culture would have you do, considered it abuse. Then you ran into the problem of what do you do about it?

And of course it’s complicated by the possibility provocation. Again our culture inculcates us that violence is NEVER appropriate…

I’m sure I sound like a total neanderthal, but I just have to be countercultural on this one. There’s a reason God made men bigger, stronger, and fiestier than women, and it’s not to be pacifists. There’s an appropriate use for violence. There’s an appropriate level of violence.

 

[st_felicity]

Ewwww…so sorry I did such violence to the spelling in my previous post…I just now looked it over and I can’t fix it…don’t call 911, I’ve learned my lesson!

 

[st_felicity]

Black Jaque:
I’m sure I sound like a total neanderthal, but I just have to be countercultural on this one. There’s a reason God made men bigger, stronger, and fiestier than women, and it’s not to be pacifists. There’s an appropriate use for violence. There’s an appropriate level of violence.

I’m all for men being leaders and such…but are you suggesting that this fella’s behavior was even close to reasonable–even when provoked? Ummmmm is that how Jesus relates to the Church? And isn’t that what Paul explains with regard to the relationships between men and women?

 

[vern_humphrey]

kevin0116:

Thankfully it ended fairly quickly, and as bad as it was, it could have been considerably worse.

I was at the gas station and the couple were crossing the street arguing. She knocked the soda he was carrying out of his hand. He raised his fist, but she walked away. He grabbed her by the hair and pulled her down with fist raised. He eventually let her go, and went back to the gas station for another soda while she waited by the car.

That sounds like “mutual affray.” It also sounds like this particular couple have done that before.

Remember, police consider a “domestic violence” call to be one of the most dangerous situations they face. Many an officer has been attacked by the woman when he intervened on her side – sometimes fatally.

 

[deb1]

Black Jaque:

Oh man Kevin. I was already to jump in an say go hell-bent on stopping it.

Then I read:

Ahh. I might have done just what you did. Nothing. Well, probably the best thing would have been to shout some belittling comment like “That’s no way to treat a woman!” You have an obligation to stop someone from being hurt, but getting her hair pulled?

I suspect what was going on was youre brain was being confused by the obvious contradiction between right reasoning and cultural conditioning. Right reasoning would tell you that this woman was not being hurt, and therefore you need not use a physical force that is actually worse than the force is being used against her.

On the other hand our culture is conditioning people into thinking that all violence is abusive. There is a conditioning that all violence is horrible, no distinguishing between a punch and a gunshot. We don’t even distinguish between a child using his fingers as a gun and a kid bringing a real gun to school - they’re all treated the same.

So you saw a woman get handled way more roughly than is decent. You did what your culture would have you do, considered it abuse. Then you ran into the problem of what do you do about it?

And of course it’s complicated by the possibility provocation. Again our culture inculcates us that violence is NEVER appropriate…

I’m sure I sound like a total neanderthal, but I just have to be countercultural on this one. There’s a reason God made men bigger, stronger, and fiestier than women, and it’s not to be pacifists. There’s an appropriate use for violence. There’s an appropriate level of violence.

Hair pulling, slapping and shoving are forms of abuse. The man in question was not being attacked. Perhaps yelling or stalking off might have been understandable but pulling her hair and raising his fist? You can’t be serious. Please tell me that you aren’t serious.

 

[burnside]

vern humphrey:

That sounds like “mutual affray.” It also sounds like this particular couple have done that before.

Remember, police consider a “domestic violence” call to be one of the most dangerous situations they face. Many an officer has been attacked by the woman when he intervened on her side – sometimes fatally.

I.believe.we.should.at.least.telephone.the.Police.However,a.
workmate.of.mine.went.over.and.headbutted.a.guy.who.was.
assaulting.his.wife.She.kicked.my.friend.Mind.you,i.think.the.same.rule.should.apply.when.the.woman.is.the.attacker.and.the.
victim.is.a.disabled.man.Recently,as.well.as.the.aforementioned,
we.have.had.a.case.of.a.woman,with.the.help.of.her.teenage.son
and.his.teenage.pal,murdering.a.middle-aged.man.and.two.elderly
men.

 

[vern_humphrey]

deb1:

Hair pulling, slapping and shoving are forms of abuse. The man in question was not being attacked. Perhaps yelling or stalking off might have been understandable but pulling her hair and raising his fist? You can’t be serious. Please tell me that you aren’t serious.

Are we here to pass judgement on a person we never met, over an incident we never saw? This seems to me like perfect application for Christ’s instructions, “Judge not, lest you be judged.”

The question is, what should the witness do/have done?

And the answer is, there’s nothing he could have done. According to the story as he tells it, husband and wife left together. He could have dialed 911, but when and if a cop responds, they’ll both deny it happened.

He could try to personally intervene – and wind up fighting both of them. And when the cops come, guess who gets arrested? (Hint: It won’t be the husband-and-wife tag team who claim they were attacked.)