Witness to Domestic Violence

[Scott_Waddell]

vern humphrey:

He could try to personally intervene – and wind up fighting both of them. And when the cops come, guess who gets arrested? (Hint: It won’t be the husband-and-wife tag team who claim they were attacked.)

I’m inclined to agree. The hair-pulling and threatening was flat out wrong, but really the only thing intervening would likely do is escalate the violence. Sounds like kevin did the prudent thing.

Scott

 

[Lorrie]

kevin0116:

I recently witnessed a domestic violence situation on the street. My entire body and soul reached out to try to stop it, but something held me back. That something was that I didn’t know what to do or say. How are we, as Catholics called to stand up for those in need, to handle a violent situation, knowing that we are not to be violent ourselves? What should we do in situations like this, other than to pray for those involved? How can we stop it then and there?

About a week ago I was outside smoking a cigarette (yes, I know I need to quit) and across the street I saw a guy and a woman talking and all of a sudden he punched her right in the side of the face. Immediately my hand covered my mouth and I stood there in shock. Like you, I didn’t know what to do either. Out of pure common sense I knew I wasn’t going to go over there because I’m a woman just like her, whose to say it wouldn’t happen to me too? I did call the police though, but by the time they got there (a disgusting 26 minutes later) they were already gone.

You pose a very good question, one I’ve been wondering about since it happened.

 

[deb1]

vern humphrey:

Are we here to pass judgement on a person we never met, over an incident we never saw? This seems to me like perfect application for Christ’s instructions, “Judge not, lest you be judged.”

ed.)

Not an issue of judging a persons salvation. But, we can say that an act is abuse. It is abuse to slap, push, shove or pull the hair of a woman…period. No ifs and or buts. There is no gray area here. The guy was abusive. I think that we can agree that the behavior was not merely wrong but abuse.

I, personally, knew a woman who verbal attacked a cop who tried to arrest her abusive husband. I can have sympathy for the police in such situations. Really, I don’t think that there was much more that the Op could have done. He could have called the cops but the incident was over so quickly that, unless there was some security camera, it would have been his word against theirs. I would have called the cops-I did call the cops in one situation- but I certainly can understand why someone might not.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

In my experience whatever someone does outside of closed doors you can bet what happens behind closed doors is worse. That may seem a harsh judgement on such things, but it’s rarely been wrong. In all cases where you witness any violence, and to pull someone’s hair is ‘actual bodily harm’ report the incident to the police (at the very least you witnessed a Breach of the Peace). In the Uk it’s an offence to spit at someone and breaks this law of ‘actual bodily harm’. Do you remember the couple’s license plate of their car? Probably not but if you do, you can still report this incident.

A few weeks back I was watching TV with my daughter in the lounge. I heard a terrible screech of brakes, because I own cats the first thing I thought is that one of my cats had been run over (i’ve lost two cats this way so am wary of it) I dashed outside into the street to see what had happened, only to see a domestic taking place, the woman was pregnant. The man was very abusive verbally and even yelled down the street to a woman passing by calling her names etc. I called the police without a second thought. I then prayed.

I don’t know the outcome to all of that, but feel I did all that I could for that couple. To have gone over to them would have done no good but probably would have got myself landed in a whole lot of hot water, inflamed the situation and maybe a punch on the nose! I had other viable options to help them by calling the police

On the other hand a good few months ago now, I witnessed a mother pull her child’s head back by the hair and tell her off, this action was quite violent and repeated twice and it disturbed me to see a child treated this way. I went up to the mother after assessing will I get my head caved in or not and told the mother that the way she had handled her child was not acceptable. I told her if I ever saw her do it again I would report her. Then I prayed.

If there are other options available that you can take to help people and still conserve your own safety, you should take those options first. If there are no other options , then in my lowly opinion we must act, even if we, in the process of acting, are injured etc.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Ruthie]

The only thing I can see that the OP might have done - emphasis on “might” - is to go over to the woman while the man was in the store and quietly ask her if she wanted any help. If there was time. And she might have reacted badly, too.

A couple of years ago, I fell off a horse and was badly bruised; a trip to “urgent care” detected no damage to my neck. A week later, I sneezed - and was immediately in the most awful pain! It was, of course, late at night, so DH took me to the ER. It turns out that I had broken 2 ribs in the fall. (I will NEVER EVER think again, “It’s only a couple of broken ribs,” the pain is incredible.)

DH hates it if I am hurt. He is very scary looking when he’s angry; he’s muscley, and his blue eyes just snap and spark. I praise God that he can control his temper.

The “intake” person looked at my angry hubbie, and my new pain and my week old bruises, and asked me is I needed a safe place to spend the night! God bless him! We both thanked him for asking.

People like that… it’s good to know they’re out there.

When in doubt - pray!

 

[Karin]

Why is this even an issue? To stop violence /abuse etc. if you do not wish (for the sake of your own safety) to step in and stop it then CALL THE POLICE…that is what they are there for!!!

 

[vern_humphrey]

deb1:

Not an issue of judging a persons salvation. But, we can say that an act is abuse. It is abuse to slap, push, shove or pull the hair of a woman…period. No ifs and or buts. There is no gray area here. The guy was abusive. I think that we can agree that the behavior was not merely wrong but abuse.

Again, we’re talking about people we don’t know and an event we didn’t see.

deb1:

I, personally, knew a woman who verbal attacked a cop who tried to arrest her abusive husband. I can have sympathy for the police in such situations. Really, I don’t think that there was much more that the Op could have done. He could have called the cops but the incident was over so quickly that, unless there was some security camera, it would have been his word against theirs. I would have called the cops-I did call the cops in one situation- but I certainly can understand why someone might not.

As I pointed out, the cops wouldn’t arrive in time to intervene – there is even a chance that you might be charged with making a false report.

 

[Jodi]

When you call 911 here are some tips from a Public Safety Dispatcher. Given the person on the phone a few basics before adding commentary.

*Where you are. —Can’t send help if we don’t know where to send it.

*What is happening. ----In this case a man is hurting a woman.

As a dispatcher we will then ask you a LOT of questions . Things we like to know are license plate numbers and descriptions of the two participants. If you have a sheet of paper and a pen handy right everything down you’d be amazed how much detail you can loose in just 5 min. If you really want to make a dispatcher’s day descibe then people starting at the head ended at their feet. As for response times we do the best with the staffing levels that we have. I have had no one to send immediately even to a domestic which IS a high priority because of everything else that was happening that night.

You did the right thing by not approaching them. You could have been hurt, as most commonly both of them will unite to fight the outside force you. Keep them in your prayers and know that the people on the other side of the phone are praying too. At least they are if you are lucky enough to get me.

 

[deb1]

vern humphrey:

Again, we’re talking about people we don’t know and an event we didn’t see.

As I pointed out, the cops wouldn’t arrive in time to intervene – there is even a chance that you might be charged with making a false report.

I am trusting the OP is giving us correct information. I suppose that he could be making this whole thread up but even if it is a hypothetical situation, we can still state our opinions as to if the events constituted abuse.

As far as having a false report filed against you… Once when I was over at my SIL’s house, her husband shoved her up against the stove and put his hand on her throat. He quickly let her go and stormed away. I was in shock and it took me awhile to comprehend what I had just witnessed. I asked my SIL if I should call the police or if she wanted to go home with me. SHe looked me straight in the eyes and informed me that her hubby had never touched her. Um…okay. I could only conclude that she would lie to the police and not a thing would have been done. I had never thought about a false report charge.

 

[vern_humphrey]

deb1:

I am trusting the OP is giving us correct information. I suppose that he could be making this whole thread up but even if it is a hypothetical situation, we can still state our opinions as to if the events constituted abuse.

Is that how you want to be judged? Based on a paragraph or two posted on the internet, by people who never met you, without the chance of any testimony on your side?

OP is probably the soul of truth – but that’s not how we judge people.

deb1:

As far as having a false report filed against you… Once when I was over at my SIL’s house, her husband shoved her up against the stove and put his hand on her throat. He quickly let her go and stormed away. I was in shock and it took me awhile to comprehend what I had just witnessed. I asked my SIL if I should call the police or if she wanted to go home with me. SHe looked me straight in the eyes and informed me that her hubby had never touched her. Um…okay. I could only conclude that she would lie to the police and not a thing would have been done. I had never thought about a false report charge.

Imagine a tired cop going off shift who is suddenly called to investigate this incident or the one that OP reported. When the victim tells him it never happened, he might just be peeved enough to charge you.

 

[deb1]

vern humphrey:

Is that how you want to be judged? Based on a paragraph or two posted on the internet, by people who never met you, without the chance of any testimony on your side?

OP is probably the soul of truth – but that’s not how we judge people.

.

Saying that an act is abuse is not judging. It is permissable to say certain actions are wrong. As far as the man’s story, I see no justification for pulling a woman’s hair and cocking your fist back. What could the guy who pulled the woman’s hair say? Is there some scenario where what the OP viewed could be justified?

It does appear that you and I are going to go in circles as to whether calling such activity abuse is judgemental.

 

[vern_humphrey]

deb1:

Saying that an act is abuse is not judging. It is permissable to say certain actions are wrong. As far as the man’s story, I see no justification for pulling a woman’s hair and cocking your fist back. What could the guy who pulled the woman’s hair say? Is there some scenario where what the OP viewed could be justified?

So is that how you would want to be judged – no defense allowed?

 

[martino]

vern humphrey:

So is that how you would want to be judged – no defense allowed?

For the life of me I cannot understand what in the world you are getting at! This is not a court and we are not sentencing anyone here. If a man (any man) pulls a woman across the street by her hair, that is abuse my friend. We dont know who the guy was and we dont have the authority to falsely convict him so you need not worry that he isnt being given a fair trial on this message board…and since he is still anonymous you needn’t worry about his reputation either!

Vern, if i told you i saw a guy shoot an innocent bystander in the head would you be capable of saying that was wrong or would you feel that by saying that you were being judgmental?

We are supposed to judge other peoples actions because we have all been given the knowledge of right and wrong, this knowledge should be used to form our own consciences and it should also be used to correct others…in charity of course.

 

[vern_humphrey]

martino:

For the life of me I cannot understand what in the world you are getting at! This is not a court and we are not sentencing anyone here.

Sentencing, no. Judging, yes.

martino:

If a man (any man) pulls a woman across the street by her hair, that is abuse my friend.

And if a man or woman (any man or woman) judges another person based on a couple of sentences posted on the internet, that is judging unjustly.

martino:

We dont know who the guy was and we dont have the authority to falsely convict him so you need not worry that he isnt being given a fair trial on this message board…and since he is still anonymous you needn’t worry about his reputation either!

The issue is not what HE did but what WE do. We have absolutely nothing to gain by clucking our tongues and saying, “Isn’t HE bad.”

martino:

if i told you i saw a guy shoot an innocent bystander in the head would you be capable of saying that was wrong or would you feel that by saying that you were being judgmental?

I would say you TOLD me a story – the objective truth of that story is unconfirmed, and I would withhold judgement.

martino:

We are supposed to judge other peoples actions because we have all been given the knowledge of right and wrong, this knowledge should be used to form our own consciences and it should also be used to correct others…in charity of course.

Judge not, lest you be judged.

 

[martino]

vern humphrey:

Sentencing, no. Judging, yes.

And if a man or woman (any man or woman) judges another person based on a couple of sentences posted on the internet, that is judging unjustly.

The issue is not what HE did but what WE do. We have absolutely nothing to gain by clucking our tongues and saying, “Isn’t HE bad.”

I would say you TOLD me a story – the objective truth of that story is unconfirmed, and I would withhold judgement.

Judge not, lest you be judged.

I am not judging anyone in particular, I am judging the action that was described. I am talking about right and wrong; not who did what. Pulling a woman across the street by her hair is objectively wrong. Can you agree with me on this point?

We as Christians judge the morality of certain behaviors…actually we as human beings judge the morality of certain behaviors and pulling women across streets by their hair is a violation of basic human morality…we do not even need a Church of any kind to tell us that much.

I see nothing wrong with stating this obvious fact on this here message board. Although, I am a little saddened that it needs to be.

Tell me this Vern, who in your mind was treated unfairly and how were they affected by what was said here?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

chances are, the cops already either know about this guy, or he would straighten up and they would deny it (she would agree with him of course but out of fright or honesty we will never know) and they could do nothing.

Sometimes people don’t want to be fixed. I have friends whose marriages could so be better with little effort, but until they are ready for healing we dcan’t bring it.

Plus, if she waited by the car it isn’t the first time.

My wife has assured me before we got engaged that if I ever hit her physically she will be gone and not come back. I can’t even imagine actually doing it.

Alan

 

[vern_humphrey]

martino:

I am not judging anyone in particular,

Actually, since we are talking about specific individuals, it is judging that individual.

martino:

I am judging the action that was described. I am talking about right and wrong; not who did what. Pulling a woman across the street by her hair is objectively wrong. Can you agree with me on this point?

In a hypothetical case, we might agree – but not in a real case. Not without more evidence and a chance by the people involved to defend themselves.

martino:

Tell me this Vern, who in your mind was treated unfairly and how were they affected by what was said here?

All of the people involved – the notion that “I’ve heard enough, and that’s that” is simply wronging everyone.

 

[deb1]

AlanFromWichita:

Your wife and I are a lot alike then. I told my hubby the same thing and even after 17 years of blissfully happy marriage, I would still leave. (He is a wonderful husband) I grew up with stories of the abuse that my Grandma suffered at the hands of her husband, so maybe I am super sensitive to the subject. I will say though that every woman that I have ever met who did not leave a relationship where there was hair pulling, shoving or slapping ended up suffering worse abuse later on.

.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

One time a nun, after having accused me of something (and as often was the case I didn’t know what I had said wrong) jerkily dragged me by the ear from the first grade to the second grade classroom, and said, “we don’t want him in our room. Maybe he can stay here a while.”

From that experience, I can attest to the fact that being jerked around (literally) can have very little effect on helping someone understand how they can better get along with you. It is an expression of aggression and not correction.

Duhh, I suppose.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Not an issue of judging a persons salvation. But, we can say that an act is abuse. It is abuse to slap, push, shove or pull the hair of a woman…period. No ifs and or buts. There is no gray area here. The guy was abusive. I think that we can agree that the behavior was not merely wrong but abuse.

I’m sorry, I don’t think I agree that the behavior was abuse, I do agree that it was wrong. Perhap in my first post I may have given the impression that this man’s actions were appropriate. That was poor writing on my part, mea culpa.

I do not however consider this abuse, not yet anyway. I think you’re just seeing this in terms of favoring the woman. What if the OP had said that the woman was holding the pop can, the man knocked it out of her hand, they yelled at each other, then drove off. You all would have been screaming that hitting a pop can out of a woman’s hand is abuse. But when the woman does it, it’s no big deal.

Plus, part of the definition of abuse is unprovoked. The reason this is important is because the victim has no control over the situation. In this case the woman would not have had her hair pulled if she had just left the pop can be. The woman had enough power to prevent the situation.

Like I tell my children, when they are arguing about something and they can see that their brother/sister is getting very angry, that means it’s time to back off.

So I guess in this situation, the husband and wife should both get locked up. Preferably in the same cell - they deserve each other.