Wolf Hall TV series

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I think there maybe 4 left in this series. I did not see the last series on the Tudors or read the reviews.

The reason the catholic faith was suppressed had something to do with the battle over control of the monarch. Initially the selling of the 30 monasteries was about money and land but also it was probably about destroying faith.

Cardinal Wolsey working with Thomas More suppressed any material from the reformation coming into England according to wikipedia. I believe. I wonder how true this is? We do see in the first episode when the Tisdale bible comes to Cromwell wrapped up in paper?

In the US, we have approximately 70 million who claim some kind of English heritage mainly living in the South. We also know that about 35% of Mormons claim English heritage. In the census of 1790, 75% of the 3.9 million people were English.

You raise an important question. If King Henry had been allowed to have his annulment, would this have saved England and how would the course of history been changed?

The Kennedys were allowed an annulment. I am thinking of Joseph Kennedy Jr. and the bitter battle with his wife over the annulment.

This was the King so was it more or less a battle over who ruled supreme, the Church or the King. I do not know.We saw a bit of this in the 11 or 12 century with Thomas Becket. Were other annulments allowed at the time?
Some very good posts here on the penal laws, etc.
Catholics were definitely persecuted in England and Ireland during and after the Reformation. Very sad and bloody times on both sides.
Also, during the revolutionary war, the colonists who practiced anglicanism did not want their church associated with England, hence the Episcopal church was born in America. I was raised Episcopalian so I thought the history of those times romantic and inspiring. That was when I was a teenager. I have a much different perspective now in my 60’s, of course. Also, I am Catholic now. So I have seen this story from both sides.
 
Critique by Travis Curtright, Ph.D., research fellow at The Center for Thomas More Studies
“Wolf Hall: Tudor History through an Anti-Historical, Anti-Catholic Lens”

As Downton Abbey and Sherlock have raised the ratings of Masterpiece television, PBS has just launched a new sensation on Sunday nights: Wolf Hall. The new six-part miniseries on Tudor politics and the Protestant Reformation is based on Hilary Mantel’s bestselling Wolf Hall: A Novel and its sequel Bring Up the Bodies.

Mark Rylance, star of the Masterpiece adaptation, exclaims: “I love it when an author, such as Hilary Mantel, does her research 
and discovers an original understanding of a very familiar piece of history.” Rylance’s comment deserves attention, if only for its irony. The “original understanding” of history in Mantel’s novel results from her use of dated and slanted research…
 
Critique by Travis Curtright, Ph.D., research fellow at The Center for Thomas More Studies
“Wolf Hall: Tudor History through an Anti-Historical, Anti-Catholic Lens”

As Downton Abbey and Sherlock have raised the ratings of Masterpiece television, PBS has just launched a new sensation on Sunday nights: Wolf Hall. The new six-part miniseries on Tudor politics and the Protestant Reformation is based on Hilary Mantel’s bestselling Wolf Hall: A Novel and its sequel Bring Up the Bodies.

Mark Rylance, star of the Masterpiece adaptation, exclaims: “I love it when an author, such as Hilary Mantel, does her research 
and discovers an original understanding of a very familiar piece of history.” Rylance’s comment deserves attention, if only for its irony. The “original understanding” of history in Mantel’s novel results from her use of dated and slanted research…
Supposedly she had an agenda in writing this, but most people are not familiar with the history of England during this time other than Henry had many wives and Anne Bolyne was beheaded!
 
Critique by Travis Curtright, Ph.D., research fellow at The Center for Thomas More Studies
“Wolf Hall: Tudor History through an Anti-Historical, Anti-Catholic Lens”

As Downton Abbey and Sherlock have raised the ratings of Masterpiece television, PBS has just launched a new sensation on Sunday nights: Wolf Hall. The new six-part miniseries on Tudor politics and the Protestant Reformation is based on Hilary Mantel’s bestselling Wolf Hall: A Novel and its sequel Bring Up the Bodies.

Mark Rylance, star of the Masterpiece adaptation, exclaims: “I love it when an author, such as Hilary Mantel, does her research 
and discovers an original understanding of a very familiar piece of history.” Rylance’s comment deserves attention, if only for its irony. The “original understanding” of history in Mantel’s novel results from her use of dated and slanted research…
Thanks good article.

BBC and PBS is totally slanted and few would say it is not. It gives up series like the Midwife and the Bletchley Circle. These shows are good shows but with strong feminism everywhere.

It gives up period pieces such as Mr. Selfridge. Downton Abbey is about class structure (there were only 2 classes aristocrats and poor) just like “Upstairs Downstairs” we all know it is given from a very romantic point of view.

From article -anti-catholic Mantel bases her history on Elton writings.
In Elton’s portrait, Cromwell is not a student of Machiavelli and the agent of the dissolution of the monasteries; rather, he is the King’s clear-sighted advisor and the architect of the modern state.
We know this it twisted. Thomas Cromwell is an ambitious heretic who has the King’s ear and Wolsey’s ear. The King calls him a “serpent”

In the scene when the king has a bad dream, I think of Shakespeare. They portray Cranmer as not knowing what to say and Thomas Cromwell as Dr. Phil.
Yet Mantel’s noble-minded jury, we know, consists of people such as the King’s courtiers, including Sir Thomas Palmer, Henry’s dicing partner, or John Parnell, a Lutheran who had filed corruptions charges against More already
The King;s court is filled with these powerful reformation figures. They are very coy and have infiltrated every aspect of his life.

I love Thomas More and I am sure they are out to destroy him in this series. They do take up the nun Elizabeth Barton who is martyred along with four others because she speaks against the kings marriage. I am not sure how that will be portrayed. I wonder how they will handle the married archbishop Cranmer.

Supposedly nun Elizabeth Barton is having relations with men… How many times do we hear this as each woman gets their head chopped off?
 
Some very good posts here on the penal laws, etc.
Catholics were definitely persecuted in England and Ireland during and after the Reformation. Very sad and bloody times on both sides.
Also, during the revolutionary war, the colonists who practiced anglicanism did not want their church associated with England, hence the Episcopal church was born in America. I was raised Episcopalian so I thought the history of those times romantic and inspiring. That was when I was a teenager. I have a much different perspective now in my 60’s, of course. Also, I am Catholic now. So I have seen this story from both sides.
Interesting, that the American Episcopalians wanted this separation. I looked for annulments but couldn’t find much. We know that King Henry had his marriage to Anne of Cleves annulled.

I think it is portrayed as bloody on both sides(equal) but in reality I think the Catholics took the blunt of it with the penal laws. I don’t think they will bring up the protestant book "Foxes Book of Martyred"of the reign of Queen Mary. Many of the the protestant martyred were killed under King Henry so why was he allowing this?

There is a pretty long list of all the catholic priests who were martyred

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_martyrs_of_the_English_Reformation

Did you catch the part in the special on Cromwell where they said that the reason the Kings cheated and had so many mistresses is that during this period of history, it was thought that to have relation with one’s wife during pregnancy was bad.😉
 
Thanks good article.

BBC and PBS is totally slanted and few would say it is not. It gives up series like the Midwife and the Bletchley Circle. These shows are good shows but with strong feminism everywhere.

It gives up period pieces such as Mr. Selfridge. Downton Abbey is about class structure (there were only 2 classes aristocrats and poor) just like “Upstairs Downstairs” we all know it is given from a very romantic point of view.
My parents have watched a LOT of PBS over the years, and some of this has rubbed off on me. I can’t stand stuff like Frontline, but I imbibe some of the entertainment and it takes some work to recognize the subtle biases being pushed.

I fully expect Wolf Hall to feature a sympathetic homosexual character, who is unjustly persecuted for what he does, and probably has to undergo some kind of horrific conversion therapy. At least that’s been de rigeur for Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries, Call the Midwife, and Downton Abbey. Whatever agenda Hollywood determines is vital to promote, the BBC catches on and follows suit.

I’m not personally watching Wolf Hall. I have watched Downton from the beginning and I really question if it is good for me or not. There is more bias besides the homosexual agenda bit. They are constantly showing how good the modern world is and how it saved us from Victorian oppression, especially the women and the lower classes. Furthermore, such costume dramas as these are apt to draw us into a world of gossip and detraction. It’s hardly better than a daytime soap opera but with better production values.

One thing I have to wonder about Wolf Hall is the religion woven into the fabric of the times. Downton is bereft of any kind of mention of the faith, which is perfectly normal for television and film, but jarringly bizarre for a time and place when faith defined people’s character. Faith is supposedly kept to a minimum to avoid offending people. Now Wolf Hall comes out, and faith is a bit more in the forefront, and we see the true colors of those who are purporting to entertain us.
 
Interesting, that the American Episcopalians wanted this separation. I looked for annulments but couldn’t find much. We know that King Henry had his marriage to Anne of Cleves annulled.

I think it is portrayed as bloody on both sides(equal) but in reality I think the Catholics took the blunt of it with the penal laws. I don’t think they will bring up the protestant book "Foxes Book of Martyred"of the reign of Queen Mary. Many of the the protestant martyred were killed under King Henry so why was he allowing this?

There is a pretty long list of all the catholic priests who were martyred

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_martyrs_of_the_English_Reformation

Did you catch the part in the special on Cromwell where they said that the reason the Kings cheated and had so many mistresses is that during this period of history, it was thought that to have relation with one’s wife during pregnancy was bad.😉
No I didn’t catch that. But Catherine only was pregnant with Mary. Anne had Elizabeth and at least one miscarriage. I forgot who Edward’s mother was. I think the king could not resist temptation and there were many pretty women at court. I assume they thought a woman was delicate when she was pregnant and relations would not be advised.
 
The UK tends to be anti-Catholic and with a fairly commonly held view among the population that this anti-Catholicism is justified. i.e. we’re not anti-Catholic we’re just pointing out the truth that the Catholic church is evil. Check out the Amazon page for Wolf Hall DVD on the UK [and the USA] sites and you can see massive down votes for anyone who even brings up the subject of anti-Catholicism.

The Brits has been feed a steady stream of anti-Catholic bias for hundreds of years and it has only gotten worse in recent years with the BBC hitting the church at every opportunity. .
Totally agree.
 
My parents have watched a LOT of PBS over the years, and some of this has rubbed off on me. I can’t stand stuff like Frontline, but I imbibe some of the entertainment and it takes some work to recognize the subtle biases being pushed.

I fully expect Wolf Hall to feature a sympathetic homosexual character, who is unjustly persecuted for what he does, and probably has to undergo some kind of horrific conversion therapy. At least that’s been de rigeur for Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries, Call the Midwife, and Downton Abbey. Whatever agenda Hollywood determines is vital to promote, the BBC catches on and follows suit.

I’m not personally watching Wolf Hall. I have watched Downton from the beginning and I really question if it is good for me or not. There is more bias besides the homosexual agenda bit. They are constantly showing how good the modern world is and how it saved us from Victorian oppression, especially the women and the lower classes. Furthermore, such costume dramas as these are apt to draw us into a world of gossip and detraction. It’s hardly better than a daytime soap opera but with better production values.

One thing I have to wonder about Wolf Hall is the religion woven into the fabric of the times. Downton is bereft of any kind of mention of the faith, which is perfectly normal for television and film, but jarringly bizarre for a time and place when faith defined people’s character. Faith is supposedly kept to a minimum to avoid offending people. Now Wolf Hall comes out, and faith is a bit more in the forefront, and we see the true colors of those who are purporting to entertain us.
On Midwives last week, one of the main characters had homosexual tendencies, is prosecuted and has to take medicine to curve his tendencies but he stays with his wife and child. An interesting take especially in today’s world.

I too watch these shows but really try to do it sparingly. I did watch last year’s Downton Abbey.series. There was one scene where Mary brings up catholic as if bad. I like that Edith did not have an abortion as recommended. This is more of a romance story. I think they play too much on the love as if nothing else matters although we all know that finding a wealthy husband is most important.

I am glad you brought up the idea of how great the modern world is portrayed probably because of the English? Hadn’t really thought about that one.

Wolf Hall is not a series that everyone should be watching. It certainly shouldn’t be watched by anyone young. It is a series that is palatable to watch but only if you have a very strong sense of catholic history. Watch A Man For All Seasons 2 or 3 times first. Watch Thomas Becket.

It is purely a propaganda piece. No doubt about it.

Yet the Tudor period of history is one of the most difficult to understand but also one of the most crucial to know about because it explains what happened during the reformation in Britain.

The call for an end of priestly celibacy is probably one of the biggest things for the reformers. Luther marries, as does Zwingli and Calvin. These were catholic religious clerics. I am interest in how they will handle Archbishop Cranmer who wife died during childbirth and later he becomes a cleric.

Cardinal Wolsey is thought to have had possibly 2 children. Who knows for sure?

King Henry had a big ego as most kings do so an English bible might have appealed to him as well as being head of the Church.

King Henry seems to be the central figure but really he is just a pawn. He already has it all, married and mistresses and power. The one thing he needs is the son to carry on the Tudor line. Women were not seen as able to do that,( Mary I might have been able to do it if the marriage had taken place early on and there was no dispute).King Henry wants a male heir and probably many heirs.

King Henry doesn’t initially like the “Luther” reformation and tries to have it suppressed. Meanwhile Scotland has John Knox.

Not in series I believe but we also have the humanist movement and Erasmus.
 
No I didn’t catch that. But Catherine only was pregnant with Mary. Anne had Elizabeth and at least one miscarriage. I forgot who Edward’s mother was. I think the king could not resist temptation and there were many pretty women at court. I assume they thought a woman was delicate when she was pregnant and relations would not be advised.
Catherine was pregnant at least 6 times with 2 stillborns and three that lived very short periods of time. Some believe she may have had 10 pregnancies, 4 miscarriages which would not have been unreasonable.

Edward’s mother was Jane Seymour(3rd wife). She died in childbirth for Edward.

Agree, that it was the temptation at court and not that relations were forbidden during pregnancy.
 
Originally Posted by goneiri
The UK tends to be anti-Catholic and with a fairly commonly held view among the population that this anti-Catholicism is justified. i.e. we’re not anti-Catholic we’re just pointing out the truth that the Catholic church is evil. Check out the Amazon page for Wolf Hall DVD on the UK [and the USA] sites and you can see massive down votes for anyone who even brings up the subject of anti-Catholicism.
The Brits has been feed a steady stream of anti-Catholic bias for hundreds of years and it has only gotten worse in recent years with the BBC hitting the church at every opportunity
. .
Totally agree.
I checked out the Amazon site and there are only 9 votes on dvd, 7 good 2 bad.

amazon.com/Masterpiece-Wolf-Hall-Mark-Rylance/dp/B00T797AT4

There are over 1700 reviews on the book. That’s a lot for Amazon.
 
gam197;12898664. I looked for annulments but couldn't find much. We know that King Henry had his marriage to Anne of Cleves annulled.:
Annulments were not unknown and were common amongst the aristocracy. Henry VIII’s sister Margaret had her marriage annulled by the Pope and promptly remarried. His ancestor Henry II had married a woman who was previously married and had her marriage to the King of France annulled.

It was not without expectation that Henry VIII’s marriage would be annulled. But he ran up against the politics of the time. It was also within the remit of Rome to decide whether the children of an annulled marriage could inherit. Usually an annulled marriage meant that the children were illegitimate - but this could sometimes be set aside and the children allowed to inherit.
 
I looked for annulments but couldn’t find much. We know that King Henry had his marriage to Anne of Cleves annulled.
Annulments were not unknown and were common amongst the aristocracy. Henry VIII’s sister Margaret had her marriage annulled by the Pope and promptly remarried. His ancestor Henry II had married a woman who was previously married and had her marriage to the King of France annulled.

It was not without expectation that Henry VIII’s marriage would be annulled. But he ran up against the politics of the time. It was also within the remit of Rome to decide whether the children of an annulled marriage could inherit. Usually an annulled marriage meant that the children were illegitimate - but this could sometimes be set aside and the children allowed to inherit.

BTW Henry’s marriage to Anne of Cleves was a ‘Protestant’ marriage as the break with Rome had already happened. So the annulment was not granted by Rome - it was the ‘new’ English church that did that. The ‘new’ church had also annulled the marriage of Henry to Anne Boleyn just before her execution.
 
Annulments were not unknown and were common amongst the aristocracy. Henry VIII’s sister Margaret had her marriage annulled by the Pope and promptly remarried. His ancestor Henry II had married a woman who was previously married and had her marriage to the King of France annulled.

It was not without expectation that Henry VIII’s marriage would be annulled. But he ran up against the politics of the time. It was also within the remit of Rome to decide whether the children of an annulled marriage could inherit. Usually an annulled marriage meant that the children were illegitimate - but this could sometimes be set aside and the children allowed to inherit.

BTW Henry’s marriage to Anne of Cleves was a ‘Protestant’ marriage as the break with Rome had already happened. So the annulment was not granted by Rome - it was the ‘new’ English church that did that. The ‘new’ church had also annulled the marriage of Henry to Anne Boleyn just before her execution.
So it is possible that Rome could have allowed an annulment. The question then becomes would it have mattered as Anne has had a girl. She was 35 when executed so it is still possible that if she had lived, she could have conceived another child. If not then the annulment would not have mattered, she’d still lost her head. And then there is the question of her cheating? Catherine Howard(5th wife) was only 21 when beheaded.

Another question that begs answering . How many monasteries were there in England. Variety magazine states there were 800 monasteries while we have been told by wikipedia that there were 30. So were these offshoots of the original monasteries or is 800 number a made-up number?
But little is made of the king’s more sinister motive for sacking and pillaging the wealth of the 800 Roman Catholic monasteries on English soil — to establish his Royal Navy and to finance another costly invasion of France.
variety.com/2015/legit/reviews/wolf-hall-review-broadway-1201469584/
Looked up the** population of Tudor England in 1520 under King Henry VIII, population is 2 million to 2.3 millio**n and reaches 4 million by 1600.
 
Annulments were not unknown and were common amongst the aristocracy. Henry VIII’s sister Margaret had her marriage annulled by the Pope and promptly remarried. His ancestor Henry II had married a woman who was previously married and had her marriage to the King of France annulled.

It was not without expectation that Henry VIII’s marriage would be annulled. But he ran up against the politics of the time. It was also within the remit of Rome to decide whether the children of an annulled marriage could inherit. Usually an annulled marriage meant that the children were illegitimate - but this could sometimes be set aside and the children allowed to inherit.

BTW Henry’s marriage to Anne of Cleves was a ‘Protestant’ marriage as the break with Rome had already happened. So the annulment was not granted by Rome - it was the ‘new’ English church that did that. The ‘new’ church had also annulled the marriage of Henry to Anne Boleyn just before her execution.
I know King Henry VIII waited several years for the Pope to make a decision. Thanks for more on the history of that time. Very interesting.
 
My parents have watched a LOT of PBS over the years, and some of this has rubbed off on me. I can’t stand stuff like Frontline, but I imbibe some of the entertainment and it takes some work to recognize the subtle biases being pushed.

I fully expect Wolf Hall to feature a sympathetic homosexual character, who is unjustly persecuted for what he does, and probably has to undergo some kind of horrific conversion therapy. At least that’s been de rigeur for Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries, Call the Midwife, and Downton Abbey. Whatever agenda Hollywood determines is vital to promote, the BBC catches on and follows suit.

I’m not personally watching Wolf Hall. I have watched Downton from the beginning and I really question if it is good for me or not. There is more bias besides the homosexual agenda bit. They are constantly showing how good the modern world is and how it saved us from Victorian oppression, especially the women and the lower classes. Furthermore, such costume dramas as these are apt to draw us into a world of gossip and detraction. It’s hardly better than a daytime soap opera but with better production values.

One thing I have to wonder about Wolf Hall is the religion woven into the fabric of the times. Downton is bereft of any kind of mention of the faith, which is perfectly normal for television and film, but jarringly bizarre for a time and place when faith defined people’s character. Faith is supposedly kept to a minimum to avoid offending people. Now Wolf Hall comes out, and faith is a bit more in the forefront, and we see the true colors of those who are purporting to entertain us.
That maybe so, though Julian Fellowes the writer of Downton Abbey and the script of Gosford Park is a practicing Roman Catholic.
 
Watching a few episodes of The Tudors on Netflix and youtube. This series is very explicit so even with fast forwarding, it is almost impossible to watch.

Watched season 2 episode 7

This shows how the monasteries were plundered.
Saw also the scene where the printing presses were used to create plays against the church.

Season 3 episode 3 and 4…

This takes up the major Pilgrim Rising in the North of England in which catholic leaders asked for restoration of the Abbeys only to be conned into dispersing. Later these same leaders are captured and brutally tortured after being giving presents by the the King and told he wanted to see them to help set a parliament for discussion on the restoration of the Abbey.

Almost wonder if some of the writers for this series were catholic,
 
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