Wolf Hall TV series

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gam197 said:
The wiki article states that. They give two dates, one for the Flight of the Wild Geese in 1691 and one for the Flight of the Earls in 1607.
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Oh okay - the poster *(name removed by moderator)*said:

*The Flight of the Earls occurred of course under Queen Elizabeth I and brings us back on topic somewhat.

*I assumed that this incorrect info came from the link that he/she posted.
 
gam197 said:
In America, there were 150,000 Irish recruits in the North and 25,000 recruits in the South so yes they did fight during the civil war. This is the 150 anniversary and no commemoration.
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Yes I know that. That is why I mentioned the Irish Brigade and Thomas Meagher. After the Civil War a small group of these fighters formed an army and attacked Canada as a way of perhaps getting Irish independence.
gam197 said:
The population charts shocked me. There was 6 million in England in 1300’s only to go down to 2.5 million after the plague.The population or Ireland was 8 million while the population of England was 10 million during 1800’s. That surprised me.
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The population of Ireland was around 8 million in 1800 but went down by over 2 million within 6 or so years during the Great Famine in the 1840s.
 
Cailte said:
Oh okay - the poster *(name removed by moderator)*said:

*The Flight of the Earls occurred of course under Queen Elizabeth I and brings us back on topic somewhat.

*I assumed that this incorrect info came from the link that he/she posted.
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The link was fine, His post was incorrect.
 
Cailte said:
The population of Ireland was around 8 million in 1800 but went down by over 2 million within 6 or so years during the Great Famine in the 1840s.
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The population of Britain is 10 million and the Population of Ireland is 8 million.

This is a shocking figure.
 
I am watching Wolf Hall tonight and I still see that most would view Cromwell as manipulative and scheming.

A thought came to me tonight why more shows are not done about Luther and his days or why no show about the protestant reformation.
Why they focus on England and this king confuses me. Why they don’t show a program what Luther started.

Cromwell has an intense hatred of Thomas More.
 
7_Sorrows said:
I am watching Wolf Hall tonight and I still see that most would view Cromwell as manipulative and scheming.

A thought came to me tonight why more shows are not done about Luther and his days or why no show about the protestant reformation.
Why they focus on England and this king confuses me. Why they don’t show a program what Luther started.

Cromwell has an intense hatred of Thomas More.
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One of the reasons that we never have a documentary on Luther or the Huguenots may be because there is a language barrier.

We speak English (another thing the Irish lost was their native tongue) and we get many shows from the BBC that give us some British history.

I think it would be great to have more shows on the reformation in Europe.
 
Never heard of the show or the book until I saw this thread. Catholic World Report has a short review which notes that “It’s brilliant television. It’s also a serious distortion of history. And it proves, yet again, that anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable bigotry in elite circles in the Anglosphere."
 
gam197 said:
One of the reasons that we never have a documentary on Luther or the Huguenots may be because there is a language barrier.

We speak English (another thing the Irish lost was their native tongue) and we get many shows from the BBC that give us some British history.

I think it would be great to have more shows on the reformation in Europe.
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Do you think Germany has done a lot of programs on Luther?
I never thought of the language barrier.
I know many americans have english ancestry and because of the history of our own country I thought we liked all things English.
 
I don’t know if anyone can answer this but I’m curious…

If Cromwell was so anti-Catholic, what explains his loyalty to Mr. Wolsey?
 
Bell(name removed by moderator) said:
I don’t know if anyone can answer this but I’m curious…

If Cromwell was so anti-Catholic, what explains his loyalty to Mr. Wolsey?
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I was wondering the same thing. The only thing I could come up with and I don’t know if it was true or not, but that Wolsey was trying to help as much as he could to convince the Pope to annul the marriage of Catherine and Henry VIII.
 
mafh said:
My impression what that his loyalty to Wolsey was about power rather than religion. Cromwell’s personal power increased by serving a powerful cardinal.
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Wolsey was definitely powerful and very rich!!!
 
🍿 If Cromwell was loyal to Cardinal Wolsey, i think it was he gave him a job, he became close to a major seat of power,but more importantly,Wolsey was the son of a butcher. He was a common man who rose very high,and if Wosely could so so ,then there was hope for Thomas to move beyond his low birth,thumb his nose at the nobles and hopefully aquire real power someday. BUT,I also believe he respected the cardinal and felt a sense of loyalty to the man, who was trying to keep the peace with Henry and trying also to do that what was best also for England.
 
HollyDolly said:
🍿 If Cromwell was loyal to Cardinal Wolsey, i think it was he gave him a job, he became close to a major seat of power,but more importantly,Wolsey was the son of a butcher. He was a common man who rose very high,and if Wosely could so so ,then there was hope for Thomas to move beyond his low birth,thumb his nose at the nobles and hopefully aquire real power someday. BUT,I also believe he respected the cardinal and felt a sense of loyalty to the man, who was trying to keep the peace with Henry and trying also to do that what was best also for England.
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That sounds like a good analysis!
 
I can’t figure out how a nation of 7 millions (Ireland) and a nation of 10 million (England) in 1900 while country one loses population and one gains that dramatically?.
 
7_Sorrows said:
Do you think Germany has done a lot of programs on Luther?
I never thought of the language barrier.
I know many americans have english ancestry and because of the history of our own country I thought we liked all things English.
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I think we have an identity with the English because of Plymouth pilgrims and our founding fathers. There were other earlier settlements but we don’t often hear about them.We also identify with Spanish influence because of Saint Augustine and California and Texas. Certainly French because of trappers and such at least in the northeast.

Yet the highest single population in the US is German. I am not sure when that occurred but we know very little about that population.

I am not sure about German television but we certainly don;t have access to it. I would imagine they would hold Luther in high esteem. We hear little about the German princes or monarchy. We know the Anne of Cleve(4th wife) came from the protestant royal line.
 
HollyDolly said:
🍿 If Cromwell was loyal to Cardinal Wolsey, i think it was he gave him a job, he became close to a major seat of power,but more importantly,Wolsey was the son of a butcher. He was a common man who rose very high,and if Wosely could so so ,then there was hope for Thomas to move beyond his low birth,thumb his nose at the nobles and hopefully aquire real power someday. BUT,I also believe he respected the cardinal and felt a sense of loyalty to the man, who was trying to keep the peace with Henry and trying also to do that what was best also for England.
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Maybe Wolsey was trying to keep the peace but he seems to be a very powerful but destained church official. .History tells us he possibly had 2 children and seems to like the women(description of Catherine of Aragon) amongst other things and Thomas More alludes to this when he calls him the most corrupted church official in England.

I wonder about the period costumes for Wolf Hall, most are very drab except for the King whose clothes are flamboyant(orange).
 
Last Sunday was the last episode. I really think if Hilary Mantel wrote this book to be anti-catholic she failed. Thomas More proved to be a Catholic whose soul meant more to him than caving in to what the kingwanted. It proved to me why he was made a Catholic saint.

The king, since declaring himself the head of the church, is proving to be pompous and consumed with immediate desire to get what he wants at all cost. And Cromwell, after witnessing the executiob of Anne Boleyn, seems to be realizing that he has sold his soul to please the king and be in a position of power.

I found out that Wolf Hall (parts 1&2) is a broadway play and is up for numerous Tony Awards. I am sorry, but I just do not agree that this is totally anti-catholic because it shows that once there is no authority it becomes a free for all.
 
I finished the series a while ago and, overall, was very impressed. I’ve read the novel, which I found to be quite beautiful and poetic, and was excited to see it brought to the screen.

Of course, I expected the unfair treatment of St Thomas More but was still a little dismayed. As a real More fan, I feel it was wrong for them to show him torturing Protestants, something he most certainly never did in real life (Cromwell, however, tortured hundreds.) and was saddened by the exclusion of his eloquent defence during his trial and his last words “I die the Kings good servant, but God’s first.”

I thought Anton Lesser did a fairly good job of making More sympathetic though. I’ve watched the series multiple times now and still tear up when he asks “Will I be able to see my daughter again?”

The portrayal of Cromwell was also a bit to sympathetic for my liking, but Mark Rylance did an impressive job and the series on a whole is mesmerising.

I’m actually writing my major year 12 English essay on this series, comparing it to A Man for All Seasons and focussing on the different portrayals of Cromwell, More and the Reformation itself.

For a more balanced, sympathetic (and accurate) portrayal of St Thomas I would suggest A Man for All Seasons or even The Tudors tv show. The latter may be a bit too raunchy for some but beautifully depicts the true tragedy of the Reformation, with sympathetic portrayals of Catholic heroes such as More, St John Fisher, Blessed Margaret Pole and Katherine of
Aragon.
 
Gallifreyan7 said:
I finished the series a while ago and, overall, was very impressed. I’ve read the novel, which I found to be quite beautiful and poetic, and was excited to see it brought to the screen.

Of course, I expected the unfair treatment of St Thomas More but was still a little dismayed. As a real More fan, I feel it was wrong for them to show him torturing Protestants, something he most certainly never did in real life (Cromwell, however, tortured hundreds.) and was saddened by the exclusion of his eloquent defence during his trial and his last words “I die the Kings good servant, but God’s first.”

I thought Anton Lesser did a fairly good job of making More sympathetic though. I’ve watched the series multiple times now and still tear up when he asks “Will I be able to see my daughter again?”

The portrayal of Cromwell was also a bit to sympathetic for my liking, but Mark Rylance did an impressive job and the series on a whole is mesmerising.

I’m actually writing my major year 12 English essay on this series, comparing it to A Man for All Seasons and focussing on the different portrayals of Cromwell, More and the Reformation itself.

For a more balanced, sympathetic (and accurate) portrayal of St Thomas I would suggest A Man for All Seasons or even The Tudors tv show. The latter may be a bit too raunchy for some but beautifully depicts the true tragedy of the Reformation, with sympathetic portrayals of Catholic heroes such as More, St John Fisher, Blessed Margaret Pole and Katherine of
Aragon.
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What an excellent idea for your English project. Did you only read Wolf Hall or did you also read the second book of the trilogy Bring Up the Bodies? The last book of the trilogy will come out the end of this year or the beginning of 2016. I need to get The Man for All Seasons on DVD because I think that is a movie I would watch more than once.
Thanks for the quote by St. Thomas More.
So More did not torture, but Cromwell did?

The final scene in the tv production of Wolf Hall where the king welcomes Cromwell with a smile and a hug and the look on Cromwell’s face says it all. Very haunting. That scene will stay with me for a long time.
 
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