Woman as property

[Mm64]

I am sure you guys are all familiar with the questions about the bible regarding woman being treated as property. That is all fine and good, I am aware of the many arguments “it was a cultural phenomenon” and such or that “god corrected mankind’s faults slowly”. But really, saying is a cultural phenomena, do you think such cultures will arise again? If so, I am not really sure i want to be involved in Christianity any longer.

It doesn’t seem like god is love, it seems more like god wants woman to be property if you read the bible through.
Thoughts?

 

[austenbosten]

I smellz a troll in our midst.

Are you reading the Bible or the Qu’ran?

 

[Mm64]

Not a troll, i was just starting to warm up to the idea of god, but then i got slammed by a bunch of moral problems, like purification after menstruation, taking girls as war trophies.

~ Numbers 31:18

“But all the young girls who have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.”

For example

Or
Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.

 

[FooFee]

My guess is that you were not slammed by anything, but rather chose two passages, which you take out of context, in an effort to slam Christianity.

 

[Mm64]

As a child i had a hard time stomaching the misogyny of Christianity. I am trying to come back to it, but i really need a way to make these things okay. I can find countless examples in the bible. I just need some answers, some explanations.

The way woman are treated historically is really hard for me to stomach, even in Christianity, i would like something to hold onto, but its hard to do. When i actually look at history, i feel like i want to die, it is so horrendous, especially the treatment of woman.

 

[Elle_N]

It wasn’t just the people in the bible that treated women as property in the old testament, it was everybody in the world at that time. That being said, if Christians were still living by how they did in the old testament men could never shave, we’d have to sacrafice a cow everytime we sinned, we couldn’t eat pork etc. The old testament isn’t about Christianity, it’s about God’s chosen people leading up to the birth of Christ. The new testament is about the founding of Christianity through Christ’s teachings, and never once does He teach that women should be treated as properity.

 

[mymamamary]

I am sure you guys are all familiar with the questions about the bible regarding woman being treated as property. That is all fine and good, I am aware of the many arguments “it was a cultural phenomenon” and such or that “god corrected mankind’s faults slowly”. But really, saying is a cultural phenomena, do you think such cultures will arise again? If so, I am not really sure i want to be involved in Christianity any longer.

It doesn’t seem like god is love, it seems more like god wants woman to be property if you read the bible through.
Thoughts?

If you look at modern culture, you will see women practically and pragmatically treated as property and objects via pornography… Your point??

All you need to do is look at the garbage they put in adult shops…

 

[austenbosten]

As a child i had a hard time stomaching the misogyny of Christianity. I am trying to come back to it, but i really need a way to make these things okay. I can find countless examples in the bible. I just need some answers, some explanations.

The way woman are treated historically is really hard for me to stomach, even in Christianity, i would like something to hold onto, but its hard to do. When i actually look at history, i feel like i want to die, it is so horrendous, especially the treatment of woman.

Funny back then women were demanded to be respected. Now women are treated as sex objects, who if they get knocked-up the guy doesn’t have to marry her and she’s stuck with the kid…but I guess it’s all perception.

Maybe you should read what St. Paul said when he talked about Husbands loving their wives as Christ loved His Church?

or how Mary Magdalene was the first to see the Resurrected Christ, and how women were present at the crucifixion whereas all the men (exception of St. John) fled like cowards. Or how about where Jesus defended a woman from being stoned cause “He who is without sin cast the first stone”

Or just take Holy Mary Mother Of God!

you think that’s a misogynist religion…I got a bridge to sell ya.

 

[Mm64]

Yes this world sucks. But hey, men and woman are treated as objects in pornography.

I just have a hard time stomaching history, if i sit down and read the bible cover to cover, it is just really hard, in many ways. If these things are no longer true and just a “jew” thing, why are they still in the bible?

Can someone explain this

texts in the New Testament which are understood to support male headship include 1 Corinthians 11:3, 1 Timothy 2:12 and Ephesians 5:22ff:
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (KJV)
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. (ASV)
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. (TNIV)

 

[Mm64]

Also. Yes it is a misogynistic world, its almost enough to kill me you know. My husband keeps me from going over the edge with these things. As a man who loves me unconditionally and takes care of me just as much as i take care of him. A marriage is a partnership, not submission. I know it has been a division of property for the longest time. Ah i am depressing myself, this world is hard to live in. I wish i was born with no sex as an undecernable XXY

 

[mymamamary]

You just don’t get it. You mention St. Paul in reference to his “Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands”, You then don’t seem to read the command for Husbands to love their wives as CHRIST loves the Church, and Our LORD loves the Church so much, HE died for Her, so basically, St. Paul is telling the husbands to die for the wives if need be…

Your point??

 

[austenbosten]

Yes this world sucks. But hey, men and woman are treated as objects in pornography.

I just have a hard time stomaching history, if i sit down and read the bible cover to cover, it is just really hard, in many ways. If these things are no longer true and just a “jew” thing, why are they still in the bible?

Can someone explain this

texts in the New Testament which are understood to support male headship include 1 Corinthians 11:3, 1 Timothy 2:12 and Ephesians 5:22ff:
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (KJV)
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. (ASV)
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. (TNIV)

Yeah read the rest of the verse, it tells Husbands to love their wives as Christ loved His Church.

Maybe you should actually do what you say and READ the Bible instead of picking verses to further some hidden agenda of bashing the Bible trying to prove it’s misogynist.

 

[austenbosten]

You just don’t get it. You mention St. Paul in reference to his “Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands”, You then don’t seem to read the command for Husbands to love their wives as CHRIST loves the Church, and Our LORD loves the Church so much, HE died for Her, so basically, St. Paul is telling the husbands to die for the wives if need be…

Your point??

I think her point beings with a “T” and ends with “rolling”

She quotes from various translations…and only selected verses out of context

 

[Burdensome1]

Thoughts?

I think you have a problem with ancient Judaism, not Christianity. And, I do not think you will find very many people who want to live like ancient Jews at war with their neighboring tribes.

If you are interested in Christianity, then research Christianity. The Catholic Catechism is a simple place to start.

Equality and difference willed by God

369 Man and woman have been created, which is to say, willed by God: on the one hand, in perfect equality as human persons; on the other, in their respective beings as man and woman. “Being man” or “being woman” is a reality which is good and willed by God: man and woman possess an inalienable dignity which comes to them immediately from God their Creator. Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity “in the image of God”. In their “being-man” and “being-woman”, they reflect the Creator’s wisdom and goodness.
370 In no way is God in man’s image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective “perfections” of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.

 

[Mm64]

I am honestly not trying to troll, i just having a hard time coming back to Christianity, i am just trying to get some help. I am sorry if i have harmed anyone.

 

[Mm64]

I picked out a few select parts that bothered me the most. I just want help understanding things.

 

[Burdensome1]

In case you overlook it, the Catholic teaching on the sexes, just the beginning part:

Equality and difference willed by God

369 Man and woman have been created, which is to say, willed by God: on the one hand, in perfect equality as human persons; on the other, in their respective beings as man and woman. “Being man” or “being woman” is a reality which is good and willed by God: man and woman possess an inalienable dignity which comes to them immediately from God their Creator. Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity “in the image of God”. In their “being-man” and “being-woman”, they reflect the Creator’s wisdom and goodness.
370 In no way is God in man’s image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective “perfections” of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.

 

[austenbosten]

I am honestly not trying to troll, i just having a hard time coming back to Christianity, i am just trying to get some help. I am sorry if i have harmed anyone.

Well I apologize for accusing. Like I said, you should read the passage and not just the verse. It’s easy to take things out of context when only you see one part of something bigger. It’s like reading a message that say’s

you suck

which is insulting until you read everything else before and after

when you were a baby, I’m guessing you sucked your thumb a lot

Notice how everything changes when you read the whole context?

Hence the whole “Wives submit husbands” Paul was saying BOTH need to love each other…it was not a power grab.

 

[Mm64]

You guys gave me a lot to think about. Im going to do some research. I don’t know what i believe. As a child i grew up in a really bitter catholic church who taught me i was essentially worthless as a female and everything i did was a sin. The only freedom i got was from renouncing everything. I’m just trying to find some answers right now and reconsider my beliefs.

 

[austenbosten]

You guys gave me a lot to think about. Im going to do some research. I don’t know what i believe. As a child i grew up in a really bitter catholic church who taught me i was essentially worthless as a female and everything i did was a sin. The only freedom i got was from renouncing everything. I’m just trying to find some answers right now and reconsider my beliefs.

Well then you were robbed. Women are important in the Catholic Faith. Sure some bitter types with an agenda will tell you the Church is misogynist and chauvinistic cause of not ordaining women…but all you have to do is look at how the Blessed Virgin Mary is treated. Whenever I’m in a Church I never see men and women differently. Some of the coolest people I met happened to be nuns. Their love for God made me look at them as “rockstars” and they helped energize my faith.

The Church views men and women as equal, albeit with separate roles…but like I said. I love the Sisters, they are some of the most awesome women I have met!

Whenever in doubt, just say one of the most said prayers in the Catholic Faith:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee;
blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

Does that sound like a prayer from a faith that hates women?